Hornby 2020 range announcements

[jonny777]

39 minutes ago, 57xx said:

18 pages in 8 hours??

 

To save me read through it all, would it be safe to summarise the posts as follows:

"Nothing in it for me"

"What a load of rubbish Hornby, you're crap"

"Wow Hornby, you're amazing and I want your babies"

"Meh".

 

 

Yes, your summary would seem to be very accurate; although there does seem to be a few combinations of the first two, i.e.

 

"There's nothing in it for me therefore Hornby, you're crap". 

 

 

[spamcan61]

6 minutes ago, jsp3970 said:

I must admit that once again I am disappointed that no early AL's are to be offered but am perplexed as to why the 91 is to be offered after someone else is working on it. I would love to get an updated AL1.

Presumably because Hornby, being a business, reckon there's more profit to be made by taking most of the market for a hifi 91 than there is taking the whole of the market for an AL3 (or whatever) 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, rogerzilla said:

Why do SR modellers need an H and an M7?  They did the same jobs and look similar.  Give us a W!

 

Because they are modellers of either the Southern Railway's Eastern or Western Divisions?

 

I'm also puzzled how you think they look similar. 

[The Black Hat]

First off all my initial reaction was....  

Wowzers! 

Meanwhile...

 

3 hours ago, tgk300 said:

Well, who ever has the job within Hornby that gets to decide on what to release has not done a good job and needs sacking. Some of the stuff is alright, most of it is random "Sugar Honey Ice Tea" that quite frankly knowone wants. There is no new GWR Steam Loco's apart from one Star Class, the Class 20 looks like something you would get for free in a magazine from Lidl and then they are doing stupid things like the Stephensons Rocket Train Pack. I mean, where are the Class 68's, GWR IET's, Castle Set HST's, TPE and Caledonian Mk5's, GA 755's and 745's, Class 70's, full detail Class 20's, Manor Class, a decent GWR Panier tank and also a 3 car SWR Class 159. There are two good models in this years January announcments, and those are the GBRF Class 50's and the GBRF 47's, the rest is junk. If this is the standard are the class of model that Hornby are putting out, no wonder the company is basically bankrupt. They are appealing to the wrong people, old LMS and LNER steam is fine if you like that stuff, but don't forget the superior GWR stuff and of course modern image stuff that Hornby's future customer base are growing up with. Eventually Hornby need to realise that the kids of today don't give a toss about LMS coaches and their numbers, a stupid amount of old wagons and Stephensons Rocket. What they want is modern Sprinter units, pacers, aventras, CAF 195's. 

 

I am sorry if I come across angry, but I am. 

 

So... 

In years gone by it would have been that would have been and fired the verbal arsenal directly at the manufactures for ignoring the blatantly obvious. Back then it was there was a whole region being ignored but I had the idea to show demand was there. Here, there is just a rant that fires but misses the target completely. 

Firstly, as others have rightly pointed out the market competition is making many of the suggestions that have come forwards. Not everything has to be done by Hornby and come in a red box. Maybe your new to the hobby, but thats a fact that many quickly learn. So your ideas have either been done or announced before, or coming from someone else. Actually Hornby have been clever. Some of their selections go quite nicely to slot straight into the collections and locomotive pools that people already own. 

Lets look at it objectively. DB class 60s have been asked for some time... so has the Civil Engineers class 31. With the latter they could have announced other favourites too and someone else has already listed these. The LMS coaching will fit nicely alongside the other LMS engines announced before and paves the way for more in the future. Other re-releases of engines in the catalogue show good selections made. The GBRF 50s will be popular, as will the Terriers.  Hornby actually have a balanced programme and while the Western might not feature as much, having a gap for some areas is healthy. 

Meanwhile Hornby have stolen a march on Bachmann the BR 2MT was ripe for Bachmann and should have been done years ago. Will Bachmann announce theirs in a months time? Possible duplication here we come? In any case its an inspired choice and great as it will be wanted in volume. Not an engine that people want to buy one off, but several and that helps the Hornby balance sheet. Also the prices might be nudged a bit higher allowing Hornby to hopefully get the most money in cashflow but you watch these get snapped up. Demand has been there for years and Hornby need engines that do that. 

The other Eastern region choices also feature the same thinking. The W1 has been polling higher over the years. After Duke of Gloucester proved that a prototype can be done this has been something that ticks both the novelty box and big engine in the Gresley collection. Result = instant hit. Not only that but Hornby have learned from the P2 whereby they are doing both versions at once. It gives it greater cashflow return and quickly. Lots of preorders and lots to be selling. Just what Hornby needs. 

However, Hornby like things with names and the result of the Thompson A2 will also feature here. Yes they might be derided and have a history written through the rose tinted glasses of those taking either sides of the Gresley vs Thompson debate but again these are filling a gap in locomotive fleets that is popular and varied. Between Hornby and Bachmann now all the big Eastern region stuff is done. Many here will be thrilled at the prospect and so will Hornby as that means that both Collectors and modellers markets are satisfied. 

The class 91 is Hornby defending territory. Its been in the Hornby stable since the first one was made for real. Here Hornby are putting out their version but it will also face competition. Who gets theirs to market might matter more as Hornby have done that as well in the past and won benefits from it. It will make some think twice, but hopefully there is room for both as this engine has also grown in the popularity polls. 

Finally the APT - this is really clever as it taps into a demand that was there before but got cancelled. Its a nod to the past but its niche. It gives a chance again to fill a demand thats there, got cult status, but also offers a realistic means of building the full rake or running something shorter. Many will like the chance to be varied and as a result I think Hornbys approach brings the widest chance for people to buy it. Another well done. 

So now we turn to collectors pieces. Many will be happy to get these, as it bolsters a range you can buy. Many of the limited editions here will have a value that people want to invest in, others merely the pleasure of owning them. It doest matter which matters more, merely that Hornby get a sale. Notice the mark up on some of these, they are standard range items coming in a nice box. That means a nice extra run on a standard run being made and Hornby get the benefit of a better return on these than they would have had if just another general item was made. Again that helps maximise returns. 

Some of these have the potential to be slower to shift but I think will sell over time. Theres a lot of heartstrings being pulled with the romantic attachment to the items that mark stages in Hornbys history. It is a brilliant means of marking the milestone the Company has made, but I also think will move Hornby onto a sounder footing for what we all want to see - many more successful years ahead. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ruggedpeak]

15 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

No new buildings etc?

Yes, but you'll have to go to the Hornby website

[Mel_H]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Presumably because Hornby, being a business, reckon there's more profit to be made by taking most of the market for a hifi 91 than there is taking the whole of the market for an AL3 (or whatever) 

It's true that models of current trains sell better than those no longer on the mainline (as a general rule), and that Bachmann's Class 85, while an excellent model, didn't sell as well as hoped. The same is true for 25kV ac units (see discounts..) so we have a very long wait for a Clacton 309 or Glasgow Blue Train I fear...

[James Harrison]

I'll take two W1s and turn them into a 4-6-4-4-6-4 garratt.  The I'll take three Rockets and turn them into a six-cylinder.... would you call it a 4-6-2 or a 4-2-2-2-2? Anyway..... for my steampunk layout.....

[davep101]

Guy and girls I may of overlooked it but have they added to the TTS range at all?

[davefrk]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Sorry, you're quite right. My mistake. The new length in the Coronation Scot set is 65 ft, which does open up possibilities for standard catering stock as you say.

 

Still need a 60 ft underframe!

 

Like others have said some good stuff and some not for me but isn't it always like that.  Personally I would like to have seen a Stanier 60 ft composite coach to match the Stanier coaches already produced then one can run one of the most common trains on the former LMS lines - brake 3rd + Comp + brake 3rd or with an extra all third to form the also common 4 coach set. An ideal small train for smallish layouts like mine. I use a  Bachmann porthole comp for one of my 4 coach sets but in my period the portholes were still in front line service so they weren't so common on secondary lines.

I do like the Standard 2mt though I've built a few for people over the years so they might not be too happy.

The modern image guys should be very happy.

 

Dave.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Nothing revolutionary about it.

It’s just normal analogue DC control of a layout, via an app and using individual layout section controllers.

There’s no individual control of trains and almost all, if not all, of the downsides of using DC, still pertain.

 

Now before I say any more, please note that from various quotes in this thread, it’s apparent that there is some confusion over...

BlueRail Trains (an American company) and

blueRailways ( a British company).

 

The former (BlueRail Trains) is a wireless digital control system that communicates directly with each individual loco or train.

There are no controllers nor any Command Station involved, other than the free control app that runs on a smartphone or tablet.

There are no line side boxes to buy.

Individual locos and trains are controlled wirelessly, direct from a smartphone or tablet, direct to the loco or train.

Power is via fixed voltage DC or DCC to the track, or with an adapter, on-board batteries.

It is now, in its 2nd generation form, fully compatible with DCC and DCC sound decoders. A known sound decoder manufacturer is shortly to launch DCC sound decoders with the Bluetooth receivers already built-in on board.

It could be seen as a form of progression beyond DCC.

 

The latter ( blueRailways) is wireless control of a bog standard DC layout.

There is no individual control of trains and it continues to “drive the track” and not the trains.

It requires proprietary trackside modules to be purchased and wired up.

It requires section switching etc.

There is almost no technological advancement here, other than being able to use a phone or tablet as a DC controller.

Hornby appear to have copied or licenced the blueRailways analogue system, or a similar product.

I personally can’t see it being of much use to diehard DC operators, but it might have some “kerbside appeal” if it’s included in trainsets.

Unfortunately, Hornby have had a very checkered record when it comes to adopting new technology, often backing blind alleys.

 

 

You are obviously aware of the difference.

What does this new Hornby product offer you?

 

I beg to differ. Nothing stunning.

Its as if Zanussi, AEG, Bosch et al, put all their combined efforts into using new technology........to recreate the scrubbing board and mangle.

 

 

Spot on.

 

 

 

 

 

That made me chuckle. Spot on though.

What a wasted opportunity. 
 

 

 

Ron

 

We use the Blue Railways system on a large through station/storage loops system on which the operators walk around the layout driving to the signals. It replaced an old and sluggish American-made radio throttle set-up and works very well. The crux of the matter is not having trailing leads to trip over. Points, signals and sections are worked by a "signalman" (sometimes me) and the fiddle yard operator.

 

There's only ever one train moving at a time on each of the two main lines so it matters not one jot whether the train or the track is "driven" the result is the same - the train moves! We drive fixed motor controllers (which are the same as ordinary panel-mount DC controllers but able to be operated remotely) all that happens with DCC is that each loco requires a controller (the chip) fitted inside it. 

 

With an active loco roster well into three figures, the cost and effort involved in converting to DCC, let alone DCC sound would be too daunting to contemplate.

 

John

Edited January 6, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[gc4946]

59 minutes ago, gc4946 said:

I'm also considering buying the new Stephenson's Rocket train pack as I sold my earlier Triang carriage and Hornby's 1984 version of the Rocket.

 

I've placed a pre-order with a well-known boxshifter for the R3810 Stephenson's Rocket train pack because I imagine they'll be hugely popular and quickly sell out.

 

 

[norfolkchinaclay]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

The 2 GBRF 50s will do me

 

might even go for some more NR coaches, take the custom interiors out of my modified ones as I cannot get the finish anywhere near a factory one! 

My budget will run to one GBRF 50 at least, it’s nice to get one thing I was hoping for (didn’t expect the option of both GBRF 50’s).

 

It is a shame though that some of the new NR livery coaches announced just look like Railroad/ancient tooling with incorrect bogies etc (the ex-GUV and mk1 BG anyway) looking at the pictures of them on Hattons website. 

The MK2 brake force runner is welcome though.

[Floreat Industria]

7 hours ago, SVRlad said:

 

Who would have thought that passing motorists would be so interested in watching operations in a scrapyard?

 

Though I do understand that containers several blocks high were placed around the confines of the scrapyard so that no one could look in due to the public sensitivity over scrapping the old Eurostars. 

 

Enthusiasts would be interested in the scrapping of any any rail vehicles and you can't usually see the secretive workings of scrapyards for heaps of something or other.  Gone are the days when you could turn up at a South Yorkshire scrapyard with your spanner and screwdriver to remove your own Routemaster numberplates and pay them £1 on the way out.

The containers had been there for some time and weren't connected with the Eurostars. More likely to stop people stealing the scrap to sell back!

 

 

 

[meatloaf]

7 minutes ago, davep101 said:

Guy and girls I may of overlooked it but have they added to the TTS range at all?

 

Tgw only thing I saw with TTS was the 08

[rogerzilla]

8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Because they are modellers of either the Southern Railway's Eastern or Western Divisions?

 

I'm also puzzled how you think they look similar. 

Both little black 0-4-4 tanks in the Edwardian style.  To the layman looking for something to complement his green Bulleid Pacifics or Schools, they're a bit samey.  Also, they're both passenger engines.  If you want a RTR SR goods engine, you either need a Q1 (excellent prototype but a hard sell due to its looks), the old Bachmann N, or you need to consider the Pacifics as MT engines, which is how they got past the wartime authorities.

[TangoOscarMike]

I like the steampunk idea, but it does seem a little bit slapdash to me, especially the coaches, which are simply the 4-wheelers with bits stuck on.

 

I'm not an expert (oh dear me no) but it seems to me that steam trains, especially Victorian ones, are steampunk all by themselves. The Rocket and its coaches are steampunk, surely. The Triang Clerestories are steampunk. Single wheelers are steampunk. The GWR Broad Gauge.... All of the Industrial Revolution civil engineering.....

 

I have a suspicion that this could be handled more subtly, taking the aesthetics of Victorian railways and adding styling elements from American and Continental railways, making decoration a little more ornate, and adding a few mechanical elements that are pure fantasy. And when I say adding, I mean "blending in", not "sticking on". Streamlining by all means, but with elegant curves please.

 

And I think this could be done in a way that doesn't detract from the (hypothetical?) "appeal to a younger generation".

 

Perhaps, since I make replacement bodies for the 0-4-0 chassis, I ought to have a go myself instead of criticising.

 

Oh Lord, am I a curmudgeon?

 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Wireless handsets for DC.

That’s great, but how big is the market for that?
I still think they’ve missed a trick here.

You see it half empty.

 

i see it as half full...

 

Theres a lot of potential they can do here... this is a version 1 product.

of course if they take it no further than yes.. you are right its wasted.

But if they do, theres oodles of features here they could offer, that cost pennies and without the £100 DCC chip.

 

i am hoping for the latter.

[Covkid]

tgk300 wrote

 

Well, who ever has the job within Hornby that gets to decide on what to release has not done a good job and needs sacking. Some of the stuff is alright, most of it is random "Sugar Honey Ice Tea" that quite frankly knowone wants. There is no new GWR Steam Loco's apart from one Star Class, the Class 20 looks like something you would get for free in a magazine from Lidl and then they are doing stupid things like the Stephensons Rocket Train Pack. I mean, where are the Class 68's, GWR IET's, Castle Set HST's, TPE and Caledonian Mk5's, GA 755's and 745's, Class 70's, full detail Class 20's, Manor Class, a decent GWR Panier tank and also a 3 car SWR Class 159. There are two good models in this years January announcments, and those are the GBRF Class 50's and the GBRF 47's, the rest is junk. If this is the standard are the class of model that Hornby are putting out, no wonder the company is basically bankrupt. They are appealing to the wrong people, old LMS and LNER steam is fine if you like that stuff, but don't forget the superior GWR stuff and of course modern image stuff that Hornby's future customer base are growing up with. Eventually Hornby need to realise that the kids of today don't give a toss about LMS coaches and their numbers, a stupid amount of old wagons and Stephensons Rocket. What they want is modern Sprinter units, pacers, aventras, CAF 195's. 

 

I am sorry if I come across angry, but I am. 

 

 

Entirely predictable response on this forum, from someone who clearly has very little understanding of the industry, but is a "me me me" type of person. 

 

Class 68 - already produced by Dapol so why would you expect Hornby to waste money in competition ?

GWR IET already produced

Isn't the GWR 2+4 "Castle" already in developmemt ?

TPE and CS Mk5s are already announced by Accurascale

GA Stadlers - yes probably a gap in the market.

Class 70s and class 20s available from Bachmmann 

Manor class - yes another green tick

Decent GWR pannier tank - well I am happy with my Bachmann 57xx 8750 and 64xx, and will have a Bachmann 94xx

Pretty sure an SWR 159 will appear but not sure about the centre car  

You say the GBRf 50s are good - I have an issue with the windscreen shape and front shelf on the Hornby  50 but that is the difference between me and you. 

Hornby ex Lima GBRf 47s OK.  Again we differ. 

 

"the rest is junk" really ?  Once again good job you don't represent the mainstream purchaser of Hornby models, particularly as it is not kids of today who buy the models.    

 

You could easily be a troll with your attitude, but I am not a moderator

 

[D9001]

9 hours ago, Fenman said:

It's difficult to fault their ambition, at least. Though to me it smacks of one last roll of the dice, using up all the expensive loan facility they anyway have to pay for to make as many populist toolings as they possibly can. It's truly audacious.

 

It's also nice to see their responsiveness to a wide range of demands, from NR yellow coaches to Thompsons to the APT (I wasn't expecting that), alongside some more likely models such as the Rocket.

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

Paul

 

 

Smacks of one last roll of the dice? Really? To me it smacks of a positive, confident statement of intent 

 

well done, Hornby 

[JohnR]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

You did; I removed it as it only related to retailers who were ordering the products at the trade event to take advantage of so it may have caused wider confusion.

 

The products were:
R3881, R3886, R3887, R3902, R3916, R3919, R3920, R3921, R3922, R3923, R3940, R3950, R3950A and R3951
 

 

Thanks Andy, at least I know I'm not going mad and imagining things!

[D9001]

I’ll have an A2/3, a Hush Hush and two or three Standard 2s.

 

the wife will kill me. 

[Dunsignalling]

25 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

Both little black 0-4-4 tanks in the Edwardian style.  To the layman looking for something to complement his green Bulleid Pacifics or Schools, they're a bit samey.  Also, they're both passenger engines.  If you want a RTR SR goods engine, you either need a Q1 (excellent prototype but a hard sell due to its looks), the old Bachmann N, or you need to consider the Pacifics as MT engines, which is how they got past the wartime authorities.

 

Anybody who bothers to know anything about the area they are modelling will know the difference, and which worked where. That also applies to the Q1 which wasn't used over all of the Southern system by any means. Where they didn't go, there were 700s, Cs and Qs*, according to area. Light Pacifics were used for anything, if for no other reason that there were plenty of them but you could also see King Arthurs and even Lord Nelsons on goods trains from time to time. Once WW2 was over, there were few goods workings that required the sheer grunt of a MN, though the milk empties from Vauxhall would have one if at all possible. That combined the tanks from at least two loaded workings and ran fast; and milk tanks were hefty even empty.

 

On my patch, there was only one working that ever produced a Q1 and that once a month if you were lucky. Schools were even rarer, only ever appearing if the loco that should have taken over for the hilly bit had failed. Goods was worked by S15s (Goods Arthurs) 700s (Black Motors) N's (Woolworths) and BR standards. Fast goods by S15s and Pacifics, and S15s also worked passenger trains.  

 

John

 

* I've omitted any references to ex-Brighton locos as I'm not familiar with all the varieties.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[PMP]

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Thanks Andy, at least I know I'm not going mad and imagining things!

 

Not so fast! All it means is you saw the removed post ...   

[Mel_H]

It appears from posts on here that Rocket will be popular, and sell out quickly seeing as they must now be on a boat from China if they are going to arrive in February as promised.

 

Someone said they didn't know where they could run Rocket. Of course, there is always Rule 1: Even BR used Rule 1 (it was its railway, so it could...) very effectively in the summer of 1980 at Truro!

 

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

Both little black 0-4-4 tanks in the Edwardian style.  To the layman looking for something to complement his green Bulleid Pacifics or Schools, they're a bit samey.  Also, they're both passenger engines.  If you want a RTR SR goods engine, you either need a Q1 (excellent prototype but a hard sell due to its looks), the old Bachmann N, or you need to consider the Pacifics as MT engines, which is how they got past the wartime authorities.

 

At that rate, one doesn't need models of both Stanier and Gresley pacifics. Both big 4-6-2 tender engines in the Georgian style.

 

You also overlook the simple truth that, with the Southern's focus on electrification, Southern-built locomotives were a minority within its steam fleet, right into BR days. To complement your Bulleid locomotives, one needs a large number of a large range of pre-Grouping locomotives, especially the tank engines.