Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Pre Grouping fan]

45 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I saw this and thought it was a mistake...

 

I thought the old dublo toolings were lost in the Dapol fire back in the 1990’s ?

Is this as simple as pouring metal into a tooling designed for plastic injection moulding or are they tooling up a whole new tooling for this body and tender ?

No die-cast tooling is completely different to injection moulding so they have tooled up a for a die-cast loco body. But apparently as the original model had a plastic tender body, the 2020 model is keeping its plastic tender and only having a matal loco body to match the original release. 

[ruggedpeak]

1 hour ago, scumcat said:

I wonder if Hornby I’ve given up making decoders altogether. I notice in today’s announcements that all the locomotives are DCC ready there are no DCC fitted locos announced also there are no new TTS chips announced. Maybe they plan to leave the production of decoders to other companies.

Will be interesting to see if they comment. Maybe they don't think it worthwhile keep up with changes - TTS are 8 pin but most new locks are 21 so perhaps the market for cheap sound is drying up?

[Hilux5972]

3 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

most new locos are 21

None of Hornbys locos are. Unless I’ve missed something in this year’s announcement.

[MarkSG]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Then there must be great chunks carved out of the boiler? 

 

 

While it's difficult to be certain, from the angle of the photo, the catalogue image suggests that the wheels of the model are a bit closer to the boiler than they really ought to be.

 

 

The catalogue image also shows how crude the wheels themselves are in this scale, compared to reality. Obviously, that's always a compromise we have to make, but it's more obvious with something like Rocket where the driving wheels are outside, rather than beneath, the body and therefore their overscale thickness is easily visible.

There's also a gearwheel visible under the boiler on the model, which, again, obviously shouldn't be there. That, too, may annoy the purists. But I suspect that these kind of compromises were necessary to get the model in at a reasonable price. I'm guessing that only the driving wheels actually drive it - there isn't any kind of clever gearing, of the type that Rapido used on the Stirling Single, to drive the pony truck as well - so it's not going to have all that much grunt. But that is prototypical, of course! But I'm also presuming that it has pickups on all four axles of loco and tender, so it should cope with insulfrog points.

[Hilux5972]

3 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

While it's difficult to be certain, from the angle of the photo, the catalogue image suggests that the wheels of the model are a bit closer to the boiler than they really ought to be.

Of course they are closer than they should be. OO Gauge is underwidth. 

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, Hound Dog said:

Really cannot believe the lack of any new TTS decoders in this announcement....... if anybody tries to source an Class 08, 31 or 37 TTS decoder, one will find most retailers out of stock and so clearly there is a ready market to add relatively low cost sound to older models and Hornby have missed an opportunity to cash in.

 

Maybe those more familiar with Hornby's marketing can answer this with more certainty, but I wouldn't have thought there's any necessity for everything to be part of the annual reveal. There are some things, such as new chips, which I would have thought are more likely to just get released as and when they are ready, without any particular fanfare. The big reveal is more about the headline stuff with pretty pictures.

[MarkSG]

2 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Of course they are closer than they should be. OO Gauge is underwidth. 

 

Well, yes. But not to the extent that it actually compromises the boiler itself, which was the suggestion made by Compound2632 in the post to which I was responding. There's enough space to fit an OO wheelset without causing problems with the body.

 

Of course, if you don't like OO to begin with, then Rocket isn't going to be any better. But the point I was making is that it isn't going to be any worse.

[miles73128]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

Thats the most disappointing thing for me. 

Completely agree. the 2020 range is good and I've pre-ordered a 6 locos so far. But the complete lack of any new TTS is disappointing. I can only hope there is a mid-year announcement of new TTS? Just perhaps, they held off on new TTS so not to clash with the new H&M DC control system? Who knows!

[Coryton]

50 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

I then thought maybe hybriding it. Using Gaugemaster for the cab control switch board and running a 2/4 of circuits while one of these devices runs a pair of other circuits with a speaker to add a bit of noise. There seems to be back emf on this things too (for gentle acceleration etc I guess) which makes me wonder over its compatibility with a DCC fitted unit (under my cab like control, any controller can control any part of the layout, so I can have a section with locos running via DCC).

For the new layout, DCC is still far more flexible.  

 

I have the Blue Railways bluetooth controller which I use with a traditional cab control DC layout.

 

I have set it up so that two of the DC controllers have switches that let the Blue Railways controller replace it.

 

That way I can (and normally) do use the railway as before, but if I want hands-free control, I can switch to Blue Railways and the cab control switches work as before, except that instead of a physical controller, one setting gets me the phone controller instead.

 

One thing to note is that the Blue Railways dual channel controller isn't suitable for common return section wiring because it is powered by a single power supply and the voltage levels of the controllers can't float with respect to each other.  

 

This may or not apply to the Hornby one (but my guess would be that it does). 

 

And as I've said before, while I like the concept, I'll reserve judgement until I've seen how good a controller is actually built into them.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

Completely agree. the 2020 range is good and I've pre-ordered a 6 locos so far. But the complete lack of any new TTS is disappointing. I can only hope there is a mid-year announcement of new TTS? Just perhaps, they held off on new TTS so not to clash with the new H&M DC control system? Who knows!

I wonder if they are working on an upgrade to TTS & will announce this when they are ready?

At the moment, all we can do is speculate.

[Pete the Elaner]

2 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

One thing to note is that the Blue Railways dual channel controller isn't suitable for common return section wiring because it is powered by a single power supply and the voltage levels of the controllers can't float with respect to each other.  

 

This may or not apply to the Hornby one (but my guess would be that it does). 

 

That's an interesting point & would justify the extra work for not using common return even if your current controllers can cope with it.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The problem with feast and famine (and, as an SR fan I have experienced the former) is that those offered the feast may not have the wherewithal to get everything they want while it's there. I'm still catching up on a few Bulleid Pacifics I couldn't buy new.

 

Meanwhile, those left out (e.g. me, this time) may find things to spend cash on that would otherwise have headed to Margate. I've already nicked £300 from my model railway budget today, on the strength of not needing it for trains, and I'm now eyeing up fourteen hundred quidsworth of Leica zoom lens that I had expected would take until 2021 to get the cash together for....

 

In all seriousness, Hornby will only be getting 10-15% of what I would usually expect to spend with them in 2020,..

In total agreement, and for a business in a critical position, failing to consistently engage as much of the potential customer base as possible is a strategy shortcoming. This should be a Hornby strength, they are big enough to have new product lines to pretty much cover the OO RTR market, where all but Bachmann are essentially niche competitors.

 

I am in the feast camp this time, here comes Doncaster triumphant from Hornby. But also from Bachmann, who have their new and dandy looking V2 down for a similar release date. Sorry Hornby, it's the V2's I want. I'll wait for an offer on the Thompson A2/3 once my V2 line up is complete.

 

 

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Then there must be great chunks carved out of the boiler? 

 

Rocket's boiler needs little adjustment to fit between current standard OO wheelsets happily. Sensitively handled the model will look good. Only a few weeks to wait and see the result achieved.

 

The problem in early vehicles for the 1825 S&D - the real thing, not some South coast branchline - is the Chaldron wagons, which really filled the space between the wheels. Some may remember that the 150th anniversary layout of 1975 was built in P4 for this reason.

[papagolfjuliet]

10 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Locomotion No1 in 2025 anyone?

 

Now that there's a nice new L&MR first class coach tooling I suspect that 'Lion' would be a better bet, especially considering the potential for 'Titfield Thunderbolt' merchandise and that the prototype actually ran on the mainline in the Eighties.

 

 

I suppose that if there is found to be a market for Era One models (and bear in mind that while the Tri-ang 'Rocket' was successful, most of the models sold ended up in display cases; I myself have owned a couple over the years which were seized solid having never been run in half a century) then Hornby or whoever could simply work their way through the old K's Milestones range.

Edited January 7, 2020 by papagolfjuliet

[adb968008]

54 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

No die-cast tooling is completely different to injection moulding so they have tooled up a for a die-cast loco body. But apparently as the original model had a plastic tender body, the 2020 model is keeping its plastic tender and only having a matal loco body to match the original release. 

This was my fathers first train...

 

its tender is definitely metal..

 

[Coryton]

22 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The problem in early vehicles for the 1825 S&D - the real thing, not some South coast branchline - is the Chaldron wagons, which really filled the space between the wheels. Some may remember that the 150th anniversary layout of 1975 was built in P4 for this reason.

 

Somehow having a locomotive grossly out of scale would bother me a lot more than other rolling stock. 

 

 

[Coryton]

31 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

That's an interesting point & would justify the extra work for not using common return even if your current controllers can cope with it.

 

Not to me it wouldn't - although the layout itself doesn't use common return, my panels do. I use double pole switches with one pole controlling track power and one controlling indicator lights.

 

So I'd either have to use relays, or move to (huge and relatively expensive) four pole switches everywhere.

 

Even if I was building a new layout from scratch, I wouldn't go that way.

 

I'd rather just buy two controllers.

 

That might mean I lose the ability to control two trains simultaneously from one phone, but I would struggle to think of circumstances in which I'd actually want to do that.

[Mel_H]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

That is what I was thinking.

 

I also looked closely at their analogue proposition for my main DC layout to replace old equipment there and its not really useful for me personally. I'd need at least 3 of the main controller ports and 36 accessory ports (up to 12 per main controller part by buying 3 additional accessary things per controller) but even then that would not be suffice to replace the cab (like) control panel I currently have and all its switches. I'd need relay switches triggered by accessories to be able to make certain sections of track dead (like the loco depot). And all that for a cost of at least £300.

 

I then thought maybe hybriding it. Using Gaugemaster for the cab control switch board and running a 2/4 of circuits while one of these devices runs a pair of other circuits with a speaker to add a bit of noise. There seems to be back emf on this things too (for gentle acceleration etc I guess) which makes me wonder over its compatibility with a DCC fitted unit (under my cab like control, any controller can control any part of the layout, so I can have a section with locos running via DCC).

For the new layout, DCC is still far more flexible.  

 

Certainly, for the size of layout DCC will be more flexible. I suspect that the Hornby offering is aimed at smaller layouts - which are more likely to be found more often. Those with 'big' layouts are probably in the minority

[Islesy]

12 hours ago, caradoc said:

At least us BR blue modellers have a very good looking TTS Class 08. BTW did anyone else check where 3817 was allocated ? In the early 70s it was at Ashford Chart Leacon, the nearest BR depot to Margate ! Nice.

 

It certainly worked at Dover Western Docks during 1972 shunting the Train Ferry and Shakespeare Beach sidings....

[caradoc]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=D&id=3817&loco=3817

 

According to BR locodatabase it was a Dai the Diesel all its career!

 

However on the RCTS site plenty of evidence as Caradoc says that she served in Kent - 08650 from 1974

 

http://rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/loco.htm/index.htm?id=diesels/kent east sussex shunters

 

And is still giving yeoman service...

 

http://rcts-shop.org.uk/features/diesel-dilemmas/ex-br-class-08s-somerset-quarries/08650

 

Interesting discepancy Phil. 'Shed by Shed Part 7' (Tony Walmsley, St Petroc InfoPublishing 2011) has 3817 shuffling between Canton and Ebbw Jc until 10/71, then moving to Ashford, which is supported by the 1972, 73 and 74 Locoshed books. And Islesy confirms it worked at Dover. So, depending when it went blue with pre-TOPS D-less number it could suit both South Wales and deepest Kent !

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by caradoc
Spelling mistake

[Ben04uk]

Nice to see the R6978 St. Ivel, 6-wheel Milk Tanker, 44029 - I don't think we've seen this livery since the old Lima days.

[Dunsignalling]

55 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

In total agreement, and for a business in a critical position, failing to consistently engage as much of the potential customer base as possible is a strategy shortcoming. This should be a Hornby strength, they are big enough to have new product lines to pretty much cover the OO RTR market, where all but Bachmann are essentially niche competitors.

 

I am in the feast camp this time, here comes Doncaster triumphant from Hornby. But also from Bachmann, who have their new and dandy looking V2 down for a similar release date. Sorry Hornby, it's the V2's I want. I'll wait for an offer on the Thompson A2/3 once my V2 line up is complete.

 

 

 

I think the A2/2, A2/3 and W1(s) represent something of a pre-emptive strike on Hornby's part. As pretty much the last big passenger locos not already produced r-t-r, if Hornby hadn't moved on them now, it's highly likely that someone else would.

 

It's also likely that Bachmann is not the competition that Hornby most fears. It's the agile, innovative, and quicker-to-market new entrants that are able to concentrate their efforts on one headline product at a time that will cause more concern. Especially in the case of the W1 IMHO. By the time they go public with their plans, Hornby aren't going to be able to get a spoiler to market from scratch without diverting resources from their own active projects.

 

So, I understand why they have done as they have done, and now is definitely the right time for all those HST power cars. However, from my own viewpoint, there are low cost/effort possibilities that would have kept a decent chunk of my 2020 cash in model trains. The obvious one being a 5250 gallon tender body for the rebuilt MN/WC. As it was formerly made by HD, it could have been hooked into the anniversary hi-jinks, too. 

 

I just hope Bachmann get their Bulleid coaches to market during the year, as I'll now be able to afford a few more than anticipated....

 

John

Edited January 7, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Trojmiasto]

This announcement is very much a statement of intent from a company that is looking to blow major competition away. From a steam perspective, they've hit Bachmann hard on traditional solid ground - Thompson A2s should have come from Bachmann to complement their coaching rake and match the impressive Peppercorn variant, as should the 78000 given that they already have the chassis from the Ivatt 2MT. It is a further illustration just how far off the pace they have slipped - pushing prices up and pleading poverty when the reality is they have simply fell behind. They cannot compete with Hornby on this scale, and they cannot enact change quick enough to meet deadlines - some of which have been exceeded by years as opposed to months that we've become accustomed to. 

 

 

Fantastic offering from Hornby - I'm not a diesel fan, but even I'm looking at the Floyd 56 and thinking how I can justify it on a 60s steam shed. There's diversity and willingness to explore new markets whilst keeping in touch with its traditional base. The Duchess of Atholl looks really tempting, as does the A4 and Teak set in their decades range. 

[Phil Bullock]

6 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Interesting discepancy Phil. 'Shed by Shed Part 7' (Tony Walmsley, St Petroc InfoPublishing 2011) has 3817 shuffling between Canton and Ebbw Jc until 10/71, then moving to Ashford, which is supported by the 1972, 73 and 74 Locoshed books. And Islesy confirms it worked at Dover. So, depending when it went blue with pre-TOPS D-less number it could suit both South Wales and deepest Kent !

 

 

Cheers. Only goes to prove how important triangulation is - never believe a single source! Would be nice to think Hornby had deliberately selected a model with wide geographical appeal.....

[CF MRC]

1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

 

While it's difficult to be certain, from the angle of the photo, the catalogue image suggests that the wheels of the model are a bit closer to the boiler than they really ought to be.

 

 

The catalogue image also shows how crude the wheels themselves are in this scale, compared to reality. Obviously, that's always a compromise we have to make, but it's more obvious with something like Rocket where the driving wheels are outside, rather than beneath, the body and therefore their overscale thickness is easily visible.

There's also a gearwheel visible under the boiler on the model, which, again, obviously shouldn't be there. That, too, may annoy the purists. But I suspect that these kind of compromises were necessary to get the model in at a reasonable price. I'm guessing that only the driving wheels actually drive it - there isn't any kind of clever gearing, of the type that Rapido used on the Stirling Single, to drive the pony truck as well - so it's not going to have all that much grunt. But that is prototypical, of course! But I'm also presuming that it has pickups on all four axles of loco and tender, so it should cope with insulfrog points.

If the model is accurate in the bodywork, then a conversion to P4 or EM FS would really make the engine ‘look right’ wrt to the wheels and the boiler; it would appear more ‘planted’ on the rails  The pulling power in P4 would also be rather better as there would be less sideways slop between wheel and rail.  The front wheels on Rocket are very characteristic and would benefit from a carefully modelled representation.  I feel a project coming on...

 

Lion would also be a no-brainer, for all sorts of reasons.

 

Tim

[Sir TophamHatt]

Here's a question:

 

The MK3 INTERCITY coaches.

 

Re-issues or tweaked tooling?
Good for HST trailers?

 

Only on page 2 so sorry if it's been answered before.