Hornby 2020 range announcements

[BR Blue]

5 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Here's a question:

 

The MK3 INTERCITY coaches.

 

Re-issues or tweaked tooling?
Good for HST trailers?

 

Only on page 2 so sorry if it's been answered before.

They are HST trailers. Almost certain they are the current tooling.

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

No die-cast tooling is completely different to injection moulding so they have tooled up a for a die-cast loco body. But apparently as the original model had a plastic tender body, the 2020 model is keeping its plastic tender and only having a matal loco body to match the original release. 

That's not quite true. Diecast moulds can be run with plastic, the latter runs at higher pressure so can be used to test them, so plastic test mouldings of diecast model castings exist. On that basis I'd be surprised if the process can't be reversed. Back in the 70s when cutting costs was all the rage, Dinky toys in particular often had metal castings substituted for plastic, run on the same tools. 

[MGR Hooper!]

23 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Here's a question:

 

The MK3 INTERCITY coaches.

 

Re-issues or tweaked tooling?
Good for HST trailers?

 

Only on page 2 so sorry if it's been answered before.

Current tooling, bogies updated with NEM coupling pockets (which I believe was done last year).

[GordonC]

25 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Here's a question:

 

The MK3 INTERCITY coaches.

 

Re-issues or tweaked tooling?
Good for HST trailers?

 

Only on page 2 so sorry if it's been answered before.

 

They weren't highlighted as 'new tooling' so have to assume they will be existing tooling. There can be minor variations as tools evolve though such as the window glazing tint and have they not started putting NEM coupling pockets on their Mk3s? I haven't bought any recently but thought I'd seen that mentioned.

[MRDBLUE17]

Well done to Simon and the team at Hornby on another catalogue full of surprises and products to tempt.

 

I am looking forward to the NMT HST power cars. I suspected a run of these would come out on the back of the MK3’s in 2019. 
 

I was pleased with 31602 and the yellow MK2F’s I got in December so a couple more MK2’s will come in handy as well.

 

60100 in DB is a great choice to celebrate 100 years of Hornby along with one of the GBRF 50’s.

 

Its also good to see the DRS MK2’s appear for my 37/4’s to pull. 
 

Now my 90’s era layout will certainly get 31147. Then hopefully if this goes well a blue 31/4 will appear next year! 
 

Now to save up and sell off surplus to fund what I would like.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Denbridge]

8 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Up to a point I'm sure, but it's also alarmingly obvious that Hornby only appear to announce some of these 'obvious market leaders' on the back of other manufacturers' prior announcements.  It could be argued that if they knew their own market as well as your above statement might imply, then Hornby would have identified that multiple Class 66 liveries, retooled Terrier, retooled Class 91, retooled Mk 2f, etc etc were the way forward long before Hattons, Rails, Cavalex and Bachmann respectively.  Of course, no one can blame Hornby for defending what they clearly see as 'their' territory - that's how business works (dog-eat-dog etc) - and any competitive business would do the same.  That said, seeing what others are doing and then essentially leaping on the bandwagon at the last moment does not necessarily translate into "knowing your market" better than the competition - quite the opposite in fact.  Still, it does look as though Hornby have 'got in quick' with announcing DRS, Virgin and further Network Rail Mk 2f's before Bachmann find the opportunity.  Having picked up the NR Mk 2f's from the 2019 range I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised that the Hornby 'retool' certainly seems acceptable. 

 

On a more positive note, the 2020 announcements are indeed impressive and there are quite a few items that interest me - most notably the APT, and will be most intrigued to see more details as they are revealed.  Maybe an obvious point, but hopefully it will feature a full-tilt mechanism...

 

All in all a most impressive line-up and good luck to Hornby with their new releases.  Interesting times.

 

cheers

Al

 

 

 

One of the reasons Hornby bring models to market far quicker than say,  Bachmann, is that by the time a model is announced, much work has already been done on those new models. I think people often underestimate how much time it takes to produce a new tooling.

There are several posts around the net showing that Hornby 1st stated they were looking to retool the 91 as far back as 2016.

[Denbridge]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Yes I’ve seen the Hornby Mag review of the 2020 range and it does say the loco body is diecast .  Quite amazing that it’s worthwhile creating a specific diecast body for something that’s got a limited edition quantity of 1000. Yes it’s pretty expensive but I’d be interested in the economics of this one if 1000 models is enough to cover the cost of the bespoke body and make a decent return . Fascinating

Any particular model may be limited to a 1000 models. That doesn't preclude the tooling being used to make other class members and without the anniversary packaging

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, papagolfjuliet said:

 

Now that there's a nice new L&MR first class coach tooling I suspect that 'Lion' would be a better bet, especially considering the potential for 'Titfield Thunderbolt' merchandise and that the prototype actually ran on the mainline in the Eighties.

 

 

I suppose that if there is found to be a market for Era One models (and bear in mind that while the Tri-ang 'Rocket' was successful, most of the models sold ended up in display cases; I myself have owned a couple over the years which were seized solid having never been run in half a century) then Hornby or whoever could simply work their way through the old K's Milestones range.

My suggestion for Locomotion in 2025 was to coincide with S&D 200 anniversary. Lion could then possibly arrive in 2030 for L&M 200. Ok , enough dreaming back to work.

[Cor-onGRT4]

13 hours ago, Jack P said:

Woooooo, Malachite Lord Nelson! I'm just not sure if the livery is pre, or post war, the lining on the deflectors would suggest post, but the lining on the steps, and (I think) the lettering style would suggest pre. Nothing some quick paint work and re-lettering wouldn't take care of!

 

And that W1, oof, I don't think i've ever been more tempted by an Eastern loco.

In the book "Big Four in colour 1935-1950" by David Jenkinson , there's  a colour picture of 864 Sir Martin Frobisher taken at Waterloo station with a West of England express, with the newly fitted Le Maitre chimney and Malachite livery and lining on the smoke deflectors, outer side black with fine yellow lining.

Dated July 1939, so same livery as the Hornby, we can asume this is pre war liverey.

Hope this will help  

[MrTea]

13 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Locomotion No1 in 2025 anyone?

 

Assuming Rocket is a success (and judging by the comments on here, it will be!) then yes, definitely.

 

I seem to remember from a recent Twitter post that Mr Isles (of this parish) popped up at Beamish in early December?

 

So unless he was there for the trams or old vintage buses it's just possible there was some research into early railways going on?

[Ron Ron Ron]

34 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Any particular model may be limited to a 1000 models. That doesn't preclude the tooling being used to make other class members and without the anniversary packaging

The announcement details say 500 models only, not 1000.

[Oldddudders]

Wot a jolly thread, including the rant of the decade in the first week of it! Someone suggested the moderation here is draconian? The moderation is exceedingly light - concentrating upon keeping the site legal, and free from people called Richard Head. I am only sorry the now-banned nutter (trust me - that's a positively kind term for people like him) didn't actually come up with "It's the Internet - I can say what I like!", as it's some years since we fell about laughing at that one!

 

A couple of people have bemoaned the lack of newly-tooled wagons. It is my belief that the cost of decent research on a wagon - such that it is accepted as a faithful copy - simply takes away too much of the limited profit such a vehicle can make if it is to be priced to sell. Plastic wagon kits look after much of the market at a price considerably lower than RTR, and are in the main accurate. 

 

Having opened this thread yesterday on 1V47, Manchester Piccadilly to Paignton - which sadly started at New St, so we were lucky to get there from Crewe in time - I was bowled over by the huge number of outstanding models being promised. Whether any is for me is irrelevant - this is a first rate programme from Hornby - well done! 

[Denbridge]

5 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The announcement details say 500 models only, not 1000.

Whatever. The gist of my post,  in response to the one I replied to, is still relevant  .

[GordonC]

45 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

One of the reasons Hornby bring models to market far quicker than say,  Bachmann, is that by the time a model is announced, much work has already been done on those new models. I think people often underestimate how much time it takes to produce a new tooling.

There are several posts around the net showing that Hornby 1st stated they were looking to retool the 91 as far back as 2016.

 

'Looking at' is very different to deciding to go ahead and doing it. I 'look' at Bachmann Blue Pullmans, but haven't bought any

[Denbridge]

Just now, GordonC said:

 

'Looking at' is very different to deciding to go ahead and doing it. I 'look' at Bachmann Blue Pullmans, but haven't bought any

It was a statement of intent. If I were another manufacturer, it would certainly make me reconsider investing in a new model that could be either beaten to production or dilute potential sales.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Whatever. The gist of my post,  in response to the one I replied to, is still relevant  .

Agreed.

I wasn’t picking on you, but had noticed several contributors had continued with the erroneous 1000 figure.

It was a just spontaneous reaction to correct it.

Your general point is correct though.

[Denbridge]

3 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

'Looking at' is very different to deciding to go ahead and doing it. I 'look' at Bachmann Blue Pullmans, but haven't bought any

And the term "looking to" has a completely different meaning than "looking at"

[TheSignalEngineer]

5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

 

A couple of people have bemoaned the lack of newly-tooled wagons. It is my belief that the cost of decent research on a wagon - such that it is accepted as a faithful copy - simply takes away too much of the limited profit such a vehicle can make if it is to be priced to sell.

It looks as if newly tooled or retooled wagon of a fairly uncommon prototype probably needs to sell at £25+ on the first run to recoup the costs even without making a profit. When you look at the common types the variations of what are traffic-wise the same beast are enourmous. Just look at discussions/foaming at the mouth on 16T minerals or 7-plank POs.

A small instance would be the Bachmann 1-plank. BR made at least three variations in the early days but the Bachmann doesn't match any even before looking for dimensional accuracy, but they still turn it out so presumably people still buy it.

I would like a proper Palethorpes van, but who is going to tool up a six-wheeler of which a handful were made to 2 different designs and how many would buy them at a cost of about £35 or more each.

[Islesy]

36 minutes ago, MrTea said:

 

Assuming Rocket is a success (and judging by the comments on here, it will be!) then yes, definitely.

 

I seem to remember from a recent Twitter post that Mr Isles (of this parish) popped up at Beamish in early December?

 

So unless he was there for the trams or old vintage buses it's just possible there was some research into early railways going on?

 

Or it could be that I was taking a few days' leave to see my son graduate from Northumbria University and I was visiting one of my favourite museums on the way back south?

[Invicta]

2 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

'Looking at' is very different to deciding to go ahead and doing it. I 'look' at Bachmann Blue Pullmans, but haven't bought any

 

 

...although I guess that might depend on exactly what Hornby's definition of 'looking at' amounts to- It could just mean it was discussed in few meetings and one of Hornby's researchers had done a bit of work and downloaded a few 91 pics from the net- On the other hand, it could mean that considerable staff time and money had already been invested, drawings sourced, CAD work was in progress etc, and Hornby were at a point where the decision was a question of 'do we stop now and accept we've wasted a chunk of time and money, or do we push on and hope to get our model out first?'.

 

I've got a couple of layout ideas I've been 'looking at'- One of them I've done a fair bit of research over a period of years, but at very little cost (I've bought quite a few books, but they're all titles I'd have bought anyway), and done very little in practical terms beyond drawing out a trackplan based on the actual location -it's a long-term aim towards building something I could maybe exhibit. The other, I've done far less research and planning for so far during the last 6 months or so, but have already spent a couple of hundred quid at least on kits and bits towards it. For me, if I had to make a choice, it would be a lot easier to give up on the first than the second.

[Sir TophamHatt]

16 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Meanwhile, those left out (e.g. me, this time) may find things to spend cash on that would otherwise have headed to Margate. I've already nicked £300 from my model railway budget today, on the strength of not needing it for trains, and I'm now eyeing up fourteen hundred quidsworth of Leica zoom lens that I had expected would take until 2021 to get the cash together for....

 

But this is a problem isn't it?

I think Hatton's have struck it right with their 66s.

 

I was in the market for Oxford's N7... just in a different livery.  It was suggested they were holding certain liveries back until the grey one sold a little more.  In the short few months, my money went elsewhere - despite selling my N2 to (part) fund the N2!  But now I've decided I have enough of that size tank (well, one other!).

 

It's swings and roundabouts - but Hatton's have released enough popular liveries at the same time to get a bit of momentum, with other less popular ones not far behind.

[DaveClass47]

On 06/01/2020 at 10:23, RecordEdit said:

Congratulations to Hornby in their Centenary year.  It had to be expected they would push the boat out given they have hit the 100.  The Class 91 announcement raised my eyebrow as it has for many here.  I would like to believe Cavalex would have gone into their project with their eyes wide open with respect to the chances of Hornby doing something like this, particularly after seeing Hattons and Rails experiences with the 66's and Terriers.  Not interested in the Class 91 personally but hopefully room for both of them.

 

Looking forward to seeing Dave from Dean Park's take on the issue, given how loudly he banged the drum for Hornby to do something with their 91.

 

 

Hi,

 

Firstly, what an exciting line up for 2020 (and more than likely into 2021).   I was very excited to see a Buffer fitted HST in my beloved Swallow livery.  I am also extremely pleased to see a full rake of individually numbered/lettered MK3 in Swallow to match the powers.   I spoke to Simon about the need for full rakes and he agreed with me that modellers want to have realistic rakes, so thank you Simon for listening. ;-) 

 

GREAT to see the MK3 DVT in Swallow return as well.   That should knock the wind out of the second hand market which saw these changing hands for in excess of £100.

 

I almost needed a lie down when I officially saw the APT-P announced, but in fact I already knew this was on the way.   I may have my sources! lol.   Like one of the earlier posts I am also very confused as the the addition coach packs for the APT-P, so would welcome some information on the make up of the train.  I know that it ran in 14 car rakes, but that is it!   I also want to know if they have the black window surrounds on the cab.   It has to be this version to get my money!

 

Finally, and with mixed feelings I see the 91 on the list.

 

Those of you who follow me at Dean Park Station on youtube and through my well known "who wants a new Class 91" thread on rmweb know that this loco/train is close to my heart.  I waited and pleaded for someone (Hornby) to make one to modern standards.   Every year at shows I would pester someone to make it.   Therefore when Cavalex contacted me and said they were doing the full 225 I was beyond excited.  In my view, Cavalex have a awesome model in the making.   It is truly a work of art that must now be realised, despite this latest Hornby announcement.

 

If I am being honest I find the move by Hornby a bit 'terrier-ish', where the good people at Hornby have been reactive rather than pro active in getting this new 91 announcement out there.  However I am bright enough to understand that its 'just business'!   I feel that if Cavalex had not come along I would still be waiting for Hornby to give me the new 91.   I am also a bit confused as to why they have not at least announced their intent to do the MK4 stock to run with it.  I am sure this will come, as it would make NO SENSE at all to just do the loco.   In this respect Cavalex have my respect for coming out and saying they would do the whole 225 train from the off.   The 91 is like a bus....I have waited years for one to come along and now two have come almost at once!   Hornby, I am sure your one will be great, but I have not plans what so ever to cancel my Pre orders with Cavalex.

 

I backed the Cavalex project from DAY ONE.   The model community have been kept fully in touch with the progress of the project and therefore my pre order for the Cavalex one will stand and more than likely increase in size!   I just hope there is room for the Cavalex 91 (extremely high detail) and the Hornby 91, more of a mainstream Class 87 type of detail.    If Hornby and Bachmann can both produce MK2f to two different specs then I am hopeful the same can be managed with the 225!

 

I think new innovations and manufacturers are good for the hobby.   Good for Hornby and Bachmann as well....as they are forced to improve their current offerings.   Competition (when it is Fair) is healthy.

 

So in summary, (if you are still reading this lol) I have to congratulate Hornby on a brilliant centenary catalogue.   You have got me panicking on how I am going to pay for all of the great new announcements.   However I also want to encourage and support Cavalex to maintain their progress on the 91/mk4/dvt project, which is set to be as impressive as the APT-P that Hornby are working on!

 

   

Edited January 7, 2020 by DaveClass47

[GordonC]

7 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

It was a statement of intent. If I were another manufacturer, it would certainly make me reconsider investing in a new model that could be either beaten to production or dilute potential sales.

 

Excluding kettles, there are very few D+E models that Hornby have gone back and re-tooled even including ex-Lima, Mainline and Airfix tooling - I can only think of Classes 08, 31, 56, 67 and 87 and Mk3 coaches so they do not have a track record of improving existing toolings.

 

As a model manufacturer, I'd be surprised if Hornby hadn't 'looked at' and and considered the majority of types of locos and rolling stock in varying levels of detail even just to have information to hand on prototype quantities, possible liveries, geographical spread, bodyshell types, access to prototype vehicles. Over time some of these considerations might just change and tip it over the 'not this year' into 'go ahead'. If it was 'looked at' and decided against once, that could easily happen multiple times so I dont see how Hornby can get all possessive over 'their' models. If their products are good enough and well priced then no other competitor is going to challenge them, but leave tooling for 30 years barely improved then what can you expect?

 

Today if another manufacturer is looking for a new project should the class 110 not be considered? Hornby's tooling must be from early 1980s and barely improved since then - it might have had a new power bogie but from the exterior, unchanged in the last 40 years. To be fair it was probably ahead of its time then and is far from the worst DMU model, but retooling could include Class 104s and be an obvious gap in what models are currently available. Have Hornby looked at it? Probably ... is there any visible signs they have any intentions of doing anything on it? No, not as far as I know

 

 

[Legend]

6 minutes ago, DaveClass47 said:

Hi,

 

Firstly, what an exciting line up for 2020 (and more than likely into 2021).   I was very excited to see a Buffer fitted HST in my beloved Swallow livery.  I am also extremely pleased to see a full rake of individually numbered/lettered MK3 in Swallow to match the powers.   I spoke to Simon about the need for full rakes and he agreed with me that modellers want to have realistic rakes, so thank you Simon for listening. ;-) 

 

GREAT to see the MK3 DVT in Swallow return as well.   That should knock the wind out of the second hand market which saw these changing hands for in excess of £100.

 

I almost needed a lie down when I officially saw the APT-P announced, but in fact I already knew this was on the way.   I may have my sources! lol.   Like one of the earlier posts I am also very confused as the the addition coach packs for the APT-P, so would welcome some information on the make up of the train.  I know that it ran in 14 car rakes, but that is it!   I also want to know if they have the black window surrounds on the cab.   It has to be this version to get my money!

 

Finally, and with mixed feelings I see the 91 on the list.

 

Those of you who follow me at Dean Park Station on youtube and through my well known "who wants a new Class 91" thread on rmweb know that this loco/train is close to my heart.  I waited and pleaded for someone (Hornby) to make one to modern standards.   Every year at shows I would pester someone to make it.   Therefore when Cavalex contacted me and said they were doing the full 225 I was beyond excited.  In my view, Cavalex have a awesome model in the making.   It is truly a work of art that must now be realised, despite this latest Hornby announcement.

 

If I am being honest I find the move by Hornby a bit 'terrier-ish', where the good people at Hornby have been reactive rather than pro active in getting this new 91 announcement out there.  However I am bright enough to understand that its 'just business'!   I feel that if Cavalex had not come along I would still be waiting for Hornby to give me the new 91.   I am also a bit confused as to why they have not at least announced their intent to do the MK4 stock to run with it.  I am sure this will come, as it would make NO SENSE at all to just do the loco.   In this respect Cavalex have my respect for coming out and saying they would do the whole 225 train from the off.   The 91 is like a bus....I have waited years for one to come along and now two have come almost at once!   

 

I backed the Cavalex project from DAY ONE.   I have kept fully in touch with the progress of the project and therefore my pre order for the Cavalex one will stand.   I just hope there is room for the Cavalex 91 (extremely high detail) and the Hornby 91, more of a mainstream Class 87 type of detail.    If Hornby and Bachmann can both produce MK2f to two different specs then I am hopeful the same can be managed with the 225!

 

I think new innovations and manufacturers are good for the hobby.   Good for Hornby and Bachmann as well....as they are forced to improve their current offerings.   Competition (when it is Fair) is healthy.

 

So in summary, (if you are still reading this lol) I have to congratulate Hornby on a brilliant centenary catalogue.   You have got me panicking on how I am going to pay for all of the great new announcements.   However I also want to encourage and support Cavalex to maintain their progress on the 91/mk4/dvt project, which is set to be as impressive as the APT-P that Hornby are working on!

 

   

 

Dave, over on the APT thread Paul Isles has confirmed through a third party that the 7 car APT will have black screen 9but contain the development car) while the 5 car one will have full yellow front . Apparently there are full details in catalogue . I hope so. Must say I’ve found Hornby catalogues fairly vague on certain points . 

[JSpencer]

I do wonder if they have gone a bit OTT on the limited editions front. Many are excellent choices but another Evening Star in 70s style packaging? Another Sir Nigel Gresley? and Smokey Joe - a limited edition? The last would have been perfect as the club special. £500+ for a tin plate 0-4-0 replica from 1920. There are not many but I may have understood more if it were say an O gauge Princess Elizabeth replica. Hachette were doing O gauge 0-4-0 tin plate replicas for about £15, fifteen years back http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/hachette/index.html

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by JSpencer