Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Hachette were doing O gauge 0-4-0 tin plate replicas for about £15, fifteen years back

 

They were, and they were made from tin so thin that a magnet probably wouldn't notice it, and would fail to pick it up, fitted with clockwork mechanisms that wouldn't propel a toy mouse across a carpet ......... the only sense in which they were replicas was that they looked (a bit) like Hornby.

 

This replica has all the hallmarks of being produced by ETS in the Czech Repulic, who are seriously good makers of modern "tinplate" (coarse-scale really), so I would expect it to be in decent-thickness sheet, and to have a clutch-drive electric mechanism.

 

It's still somewhat pricey by comparison with what other people charge for material commissioned from ETS, the consensus being that Hornby have higher overheads and are milking it a bit, but the tooling for those pressed-out ridges in the cab and tender won't have come cheap.

 

The segment of the market that wants replica Princess Elizabeth type material is already well-served (to saturation point) by material made by Corgi then Hornby under the Bassett-Lowke label c15 years ago, by Ace Trains of London, and (for the really hardcore fan who wants even the mechanism to be a perfect replica of a 1930s one) a specialist maker in Australia who has a worldwide following. Hornby are wise to keep out of this territory, especially since their one-time product designer in this area is now Ace's designer.

 

Its a good choice, from a dependable maker of good quality (if indeed it is by ETS), with wide appeal, but IMO maybe 30% overpriced.

 

I still think it will sell though.

 

For reference, the loco in this photo is ETS-made ‘modern tinplate’ 0 gauge, with a dual-motor clutch drive, and cost significantly less than Hornby are asking.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Nearholmer

[classy52]

10 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

These are m.r.p.’s

Wait and see what the box shifters price them at 3 or 4 months after release.

Prices are what they are, for various reasons long debated on RMweb over the years.

 

There is some merit in your point about price comparisons though.

Comparable quality Hornby diesels from this year’s announcement, are £110 cheaper than the Class 43 train pack (using the m.r.p’s).

That’s effectively £110 for a dummy car, or even a coach + head and tail lights.

Single packaging saves on logistics and marketing costs too.

There is food for thought there.

Note the re-tooled Class 43 locos were announced in the 2008 catalogue, IIRC?
Off the top of my head, they were priced at something like £209.

The box shifters asked around £180’ish ....again from a woolly memory.

A year later, they were being discounted and sold off for between £90 and £110

I bought mine then.

 

Therefore, the m.r.p. has only gone up by something like £80 over 12 years.

An awful lot has changed in the world economy, in China, inflation, exchange rates etc over those 12 years.

 

 

 

Ron

 

 

Unfortunately there won't be any Network Rail HST sets left 3-4 months after release (would be very surprised if they don't sell out with retailers) thus yes I'll pre-order @£260 but I'm not wanting to debate on here about pricing just making an observation from what I remember what they were priced at up to 2017 and from then I think the price suddenly shot up to £290 RRP hence why I thought they stuck a motor in the dummy car.

Appreciate your info on prices since 2008 but have been only in this hobby since 2014 thus only know prices from that year on-wards and this being my first HST purchase it is quite steep for just one powered car but yes it is what it is.

[andyman7]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

They were, and they were made from tin so thin that a magnet probably wouldn't notice it, and would fail to pick it up, fitted with clockwork mechanisms that wouldn't propel a toy mouse across a carpet ......... the only sense in which they were replicas was that they looked (a bit) like Hornby.

 

This replica has all the hallmarks of being produced by ETS in the Czech Repulic, who are seriously good makers of modern "tinplate" (coarse-scale really), so I would expect it to be in decent-thickness sheet, and to have a clutch-drive electric mechanism.

 

It's still somewhat pricey by comparison with what other people charge for material commissioned from ETS, the consensus being that Hornby have higher overheads and are milking it a bit, but the tooling for those pressed-out ridges in the cab and tender won't have come cheap.

 

The segment of the market that wants replica Princess Elizabeth type material is already well-served (to saturation point) by material made by Corgi then Hornby under the Bassett-Lowke label c15 years ago, by Ace Trains of London, and (for the really hardcore fan who wants even the mechanism to be a perfect replica of a 1930s one) a specialist maker in Australia who has a worldwide following. Hornby are wise to keep out of this territory, especially since their one-time product designer in this area is now Ace's designer.

 

Its a good choice, from a dependable maker of good quality (if indeed it is by ETS), with wide appeal, but IMO maybe 30% overpriced.

And made in very limited numbers so a very niche production, but it nice for them to acknowledge that part of their heritage.

[NIK]

7 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

That is what I was thinking.

 

I also looked closely at their analogue proposition for my main DC layout to replace old equipment there and its not really useful for me personally. I'd need at least 3 of the main controller ports and 36 accessory ports (up to 12 per main controller part by buying 3 additional accessary things per controller) but even then that would not be suffice to replace the cab (like) control panel I currently have and all its switches. I'd need relay switches triggered by accessories to be able to make certain sections of track dead (like the loco depot). And all that for a cost of at least £300.

 

I then thought maybe hybriding it. Using Gaugemaster for the cab control switch board and running a 2/4 of circuits while one of these devices runs a pair of other circuits with a speaker to add a bit of noise. There seems to be back emf on this things too (for gentle acceleration etc I guess) which makes me wonder over its compatibility with a DCC fitted unit (under my cab like control, any controller can control any part of the layout, so I can have a section with locos running via DCC).

For the new layout, DCC is still far more flexible.  

Hi,

 

I don't think Back EMF compensation is needed to provide acceleration and deceleration. I used to have a home made DC controller with inertia to do a similar thing and that had no Back EMF compensation. If Hornby do include Back EMF compensation by Pulse Width Modulation hopefully they will do it at high enough frequency that coreless motors are not damaged.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[scottrains29]

The intercity HST pack seems a strange choice. 43065 was only named in 1996 shortly before moving to Virgin. Surely it is unlikely both these buffered examples worked together in the liveries represented in this pack. If they did, it would only have been for a very short period as both powercars got repainted into Virgin livery.

 

I think it would have been better for Hornby to release a single buffered class 43, rather than a twin pack. Lima used to do this. It could even be a dummy car to keep costs down. I would quite like a buffered example to add variety to my existing sets especially in Virgin or GNER livery but I don't think I ever saw two buffered 43's in the one set.

[GordonC]

2 minutes ago, scottrains29 said:

The intercity HST pack seems a strange choice. 43065 was only named in 1996 shortly before moving to Virgin. Surely it is unlikely both these buffered examples worked together in the liveries represented in this pack. If they did, it would only have been for a very short period as both powercars got repainted into Virgin livery.

 

I think it would have been better for Hornby to release a single buffered class 43, rather than a twin pack. Lima used to do this. It could even be a dummy car to keep costs down. I would quite like a buffered example to add variety to my existing sets especially in Virgin or GNER livery but I don't think I ever saw two buffered 43's in the one set.

 

I'd have preferred both buffered but one in intercity swallow and the other intercity executive to add a bit of variety

[Francis deWeck]

1 hour ago, Fenman said:

 

HST. Twice in fact - the first time using the Lima body instead of their own, then an all-new tooling.

 

Didn't they do a 2BIL in ancient times, replaced with a rather spiffy new tooling?

 

Paul

Picking up on that reference to the 2-BIL, they did an EMU, but I thought it was a 2-SUB. Maybe my memory is wrong. The important difference between the old model (which ran for years) and the new EMU was that the unit had a route indicator blind which lit up. When I bought the latest model I found that major (and impossible) surgery was required to modify the route indicator blind so that it could be back lit. Adhesive route blinds were not a good idea, but this must have been yet another part of the design-clever rationale that took over Hornby.

[Denbridge]

3 hours ago, philiprporter said:

I like the theme of a 'train per decade', but also winced when I saw the price of the tinplate 0-4-0. Having recently dabbled in live steam, for an extra £135 you could buy a UK made, all metal, live steam Roundhouse 0-4-0 loco, or alternatively a slightly lower spec Mamod MKIII live steam 0-4-0 loco for £165 less than the tin plate limited edition. Looks like they are selling though and I guess on that basis, investment value could rocket assuming there are no second runs.  

Hattons are already, after one day, saying they are sold out of the Tinplate 0.4.0s so there is clearly the demand.

[Mike Harvey]

Just a word of warning about the new Hornby catalogue. Its 244 pages weigh in at just over 1 kg. The flimsy carrier bag my wife put it in was in tatters before she got back to the car park. Great value read even though there is not one of my preferred N scale models in it. Maybe the Arnold announcement will perk me up a bit more.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Mike Harvey
spelling

[Mel_H]

2 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

 

Crikey I thought with the massive price jump on the HST set and with the tooling being a few years old now they had stuck a motor in the other car 

Will still buy the NR HST Set since I have all 3 Mk3 coaches from last year which I only got this week from Kernow & now pre-ordered the other 2 so this will be my first HST purchase but £260 for 2 loco's & only one powered seems pretty steep even by today's standards...lol I honestly thought the price increases were due to sticking a motor in the dummy car  

Basically we're paying just over 200 quid for a powered car considering the dummy car would no more expensive than the DVT to make...oh well.

 

While I can't comment on Hornby's costs, Rapido have previously stated in their videos and newsletters that the cost of a 'powered' loco, verses a 'non-powered' loco is very close, which is why it doesn't sell non-powered locos as they wouldn't be any cheaper.

[JSpencer]

37 minutes ago, Francis deWeck said:

Picking up on that reference to the 2-BIL, they did an EMU, but I thought it was a 2-SUB. Maybe my memory is wrong. The important difference between the old model (which ran for years) and the new EMU was that the unit had a route indicator blind which lit up. When I bought the latest model I found that major (and impossible) surgery was required to modify the route indicator blind so that it could be back lit. Adhesive route blinds were not a good idea, but this must have been yet another part of the design-clever rationale that took over Hornby.

 

Triang did an SR looking EMU but I would put a type or class to it. It was quite generic.

[eldomtom2]

15 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Hattons are already, after one day, saying they are sold out of the Tinplate 0.4.0s so there is clearly the demand.

Rails isn't however, and if there's only 100 of each there can't be that many assigned to each store - plus Hattons likes to keep some back for the release date.

[locomad2]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

I'm not sure how massive the market is for RTR 16T minerals given the large range of kits available which are easy to build and the liveries they carried can hardly be described as complex and well within the skills range of the average modeller.

 

RTR POs I can see having more demand due to the more diverse and complex liveries.

 

[locomad2]

Watched the whole 90 minutes YouTube Hornby range thing, only thing worried me as I've all the original classic decade range models, only one which made us laugh was the duchess dicast from 30's, purchased a 3 rail Hornby  dublo for £20 recently at a toy fair, bit of work and it goes well, 80 years old, will the £250 new one work as well in 2100 ?

[gwrrob]

A heads up that the 2020 catalogue is part of a bundle for £10 with Hornby Magazine if bought from Tesco from tomorrow or W H Smiths next week.

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Hound Dog said:

Really cannot believe the lack of any new TTS decoders in this announcement....... if anybody tries to source an Class 08, 31 or 37 TTS decoder, one will find most retailers out of stock and so clearly there is a ready market to add relatively low cost sound to older models and Hornby have missed an opportunity to cash in.

 

........ imagine the interest in a class 25, Peak, Western or first generation DMU TTS decoder being brought to the market......... 

But why would Hornby offer sound decoders for locos they haven't made for donkey's years (or ever the case of the Peak) and IIRC never had DCC sockets provided in any case?

 

John

[MikeParkin65]

12 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

A heads up that the 2020 catalogue is part of a bundle for £10 with Hornby Magazine if bought from Tesco from tomorrow or W H Smiths next week.

I believe it is Tesco on Thursday and WHS from Friday.

[TFR]

Think I'll wait until Lidl have the catalogue - I hear you get free trains in those ones.

[Aire Head]

24 minutes ago, locomad2 said:

 

??

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I have the Blue Railways bluetooth controller which I use with a traditional cab control DC layout.

 

I have set it up so that two of the DC controllers have switches that let the Blue Railways controller replace it.

 

That way I can (and normally) do use the railway as before, but if I want hands-free control, I can switch to Blue Railways and the cab control switches work as before, except that instead of a physical controller, one setting gets me the phone controller instead.

 

One thing to note is that the Blue Railways dual channel controller isn't suitable for common return section wiring because it is powered by a single power supply and the voltage levels of the controllers can't float with respect to each other.  

 

This may or not apply to the Hornby one (but my guess would be that it does). 

 

And as I've said before, while I like the concept, I'll reserve judgement until I've seen how good a controller is actually built into them.

Correct. which is why we followed the advice of Blue Railways and used a single channel unit to replace each existing controller, thereby making for a quick and straightforward changeover.

 

Their single channel controllers also incorporate a knob so there's no need to retain the old ones (though ours are mounted on the ceiling to keep them out of the way!). That doesn't seem to be the case with what Hornby have announced, and neither do they appear to be planning a wireless handset to allow Bluetooth operation independent of a phone or tablet.

 

John

 

[ThaneofFife]

On 06/01/2020 at 09:40, adb968008 said:

Gosh, its easier to say whats missing from that list, than whats there...

 

No new tooling of post-privatisation modern image...

 

However I think theyve soaked up nearly all remaining gaps of 2019’s railway scene that uses BR era technology.. 

nice set of HSTs there, Network Rail, IC, GWR, GBRF 47’s, 60’s is a good idea... but no Pacer ?

 

The Scottish Azuma I think was premature... I am quandry now do I buy the one yet to come out, or this one... had the first been released i’d have been bemoaning buying needing to buy a second.

 

They have to be congratulated staying away from tooling duplication (ok 91 was an obvious one and I think many of us suspected that for a long time)...

but Originality in decisions..

 

Nice to see headcode 31’s ! were getting there...

 

APT ! Who would have thought that.

 

heading back in time Morden Dairies Ruston !!! Big thumbs up.

Steam is a bit of a feast, 78xxx was a very good choice, 46256, Thompsons, Rocket, W1... the list is pretty extensive !!!

 

A very ambitious list of stuff

 

DC Bluetooth App control i’m intrigued by... this could be the start of something big..

 

 

 

Cant see any additional version of the Class 87.  Frankly do they have the production slots spare!  Maybe something will drop in the Summer as other announcement can and do trickle through beyond the headline reveal day.

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Good point.  H are still churning out 16ton minerals on the wrong wheelbased generic chassis from Triang days, and there is an opening here surely for Oxford to undercut Baccy with this very essential wagon for anyone modelling periods 4, 5, 6, 7, and even more recent in industrial use.

TBH, the Bachmann ones have been around so long that many of us will already have accumulated all we'll ever need.

 

If H or OR were to do a steel body mineral, filling gaps with a riveted one (Dia.109) or the 21T Dia.107 would be far more useful, IMHO.

 

John

[ThaneofFife]

7 hours ago, BR Blue said:

They are HST trailers. Almost certain they are the current tooling.

 

but id say compared to the oxford version the old Hornby mk3 is the better more solid looking of the two (barring the nicer details on the newer coaches).

least they can manage to print the silver window surrounds on the actual surrounds not on the glazing..........lovely coaches now they have tinted windows.  

[GordonC]

57 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

But why would Hornby offer sound decoders for locos they haven't made for donkey's years (or ever the case of the Peak) and IIRC never had DCC sockets provided in any case?

 

John

 

To make money from I'd have thought. If they have the chips to do it then it must be fairly simple to load with different sounds and sell regardless of who makes the host model if it has a compatible DCC socket - plenty Bachmann models have been 8 pin in the past, Heljan too but the current draw on them might fry TTS decoders

[Legend]

2 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

I'm sorry I should have said over the last 2 years, I remember not so long ago they were up to £230 or below depending if they were a limited edition or not.

Just stating fact and just wondered if they had stuck a motor in the dummy car and if that bores you just move on or just sneer at the screen or whatever else that makes you feel better.

 

Yes I bought the ScotRail Inter7City power cars at standard discount  when they first came out in the summer @£269 (Mrp £289) because I thought they’d sell out. You can still get them, and I’ve seen them as low as £211, I think from Model Railways Direct . So you might get them cheaper but there is that risk they sell out . Not sure the second batch of Inter7City will sell as fast, if it was these ones you were after then you might be best waiting for a bit . The irony of course is that the coaches still haven’t turned up!