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Hornby 2020 range announcements


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2 minutes ago, bart2day said:

 

Completely agree. Despite some nice reliveries of existing tooling such as the Scotrail HSTs and Network Rail mk2fs, I am rather disappointed by this years offering as Hornby once again entrenches the view that they are not interested in the current era modeller particularly when it comes to new tooling.

 

As you say, there are so many current scene prototypes that have never made it to model form and yet most people are screaming that their favourite loco hasn’t been retooled in the last ten years. The hobby’s future is bleak as by the time the manufacturers come round to manufacturing up to date stock (if ever) a lot of potential current scene modellers will be put off as there will be such a backlog.

 

Nonetheless I acknowledge that this is not a popular view on this forum.

Trouble with endlessly chasing "current scene" is that we now have a myriad of units most of which are confined to a relatively small geographic area. I can see more 800 derivatives coming (even if they are shorter than they ought to be) as there are already prototypes on GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE- before long there will be EMR and Avanti variants as well as the one off livery variations already being done now for LNER and probably will get done for GWR. Beyond them what to do- plump for a CAF 195/331 and its only got limited regional appeal, same goes for an Aventra which are not widespread either, go for an Electrostar and you get a few more livery variants but still all London centric. 

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TESCO in Prestwich (Manchester) had two catalogues but no Hornby magazines. Local ASDAs in Bury and Bolton had magazines but no catalogue! Will be ordering direct as mentioned earlier and take advantage of the combined price!

 

Personally, not much of interest but hats off to HR for such a raft of products. My biggest disappointment (aka unfulfilled "wish") was for OO/4mm:foot Wagonlits sleeper coaches and a fourgon, so I could model the night sleeper boat train to go behind my SR locos! Yes, I know this is a limited interest consist, but as a "prototypical length" train could be just four coaches and two fourgons, it would be an easy one  to model (as opposed to prototypical length HSTs, Pendolinos, APTs etc etc). Someone suggested I checked Hornby's Electrotren range, but none there (and would be to HO scale and so look positively anaemic against OO locos!)

 

Perhaps I'll demonstrate my ignorance here, but I am quite surprised they don't release the class 71 as a class 74 - wouldn't that simply mean a new roof moulding? TTBOMK, the chassis is the same so a relatively "easy" model to create? (I know there were only ten of them, but there was only one "Rocket"! :lol: )

 

I do also wish they had gone for completely new designs for the "steampunk" range using their existing chassis, rather than sticking random bits of tubing and gears onto existing models. (If I was going to produce a new steampunk range, I would have got input from established steampunk modellers/designers, even those not directly involved with railways! Of course, I have no idea whether they did, nor about the costing restrictions placed upon the designers!) My cousin's three young boys are definitely the market these are aimed towards - I'll show them the photos and get their reactions!

 

I may yet be tempted by a new Hornby "Terrier" (although not in a newly announced model finish!) but time will tell. At the end of the day, good luck to them.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Trouble with endlessly chasing "current scene" is that we now have a myriad of units most of which are confined to a relatively small geographic area. I can see more 800 derivatives coming (even if they are shorter than they ought to be) as there are already prototypes on GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE- before long there will be EMR and Avanti variants as well as the one off livery variations already being done now for LNER and probably will get done for GWR. Beyond them what to do- plump for a CAF 195/331 and its only got limited regional appeal, same goes for an Aventra which are not widespread either, go for an Electrostar and you get a few more livery variants but still all London centric. 

 

Surely the 331 and 195 will not be "limited" give they'll be all over the north in due course, and TFW and somebody else have close relatives on order. Also the 397 may have commonality?

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5 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Perhaps I'll demonstrate my ignorance here, but I am quite surprised they don't release the class 71 as a class 74 - wouldn't that simply mean a new roof moulding? TTBOMK, the chassis is the same so a relatively "easy" model to create?

Even if the only difference was the roof, it's still an expensive investment to retool the body shell.

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7 hours ago, bart2day said:

 

Completely agree. Despite some nice reliveries of existing tooling such as the Scotrail HSTs and Network Rail mk2fs, I am rather disappointed by this years offering as Hornby once again entrenches the view that they are not interested in the current era modeller particularly when it comes to new tooling.

 

As you say, there are so many current scene prototypes that have never made it to model form and yet most people are screaming that their favourite loco hasn’t been retooled in the last ten years. The hobby’s future is bleak as by the time the manufacturers come round to manufacturing up to date stock (if ever) a lot of potential current scene modellers will be put off as there will be such a backlog.

 

Nonetheless I acknowledge that this is not a popular view on this forum.

 

7 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Trouble with endlessly chasing "current scene" is that we now have a myriad of units most of which are confined to a relatively small geographic area. I can see more 800 derivatives coming (even if they are shorter than they ought to be) as there are already prototypes on GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE- before long there will be EMR and Avanti variants as well as the one off livery variations already being done now for LNER and probably will get done for GWR. Beyond them what to do- plump for a CAF 195/331 and its only got limited regional appeal, same goes for an Aventra which are not widespread either, go for an Electrostar and you get a few more livery variants but still all London centric. 

But, of course, 2020 was inevitably going to be the "Year of the HST", whatever Hornby might have in mind beyond this year.

 

Post-privatisation locos are fairly well represented from other makers but it appears that nobody really wants to get stuck in where units are concerned. There still seems to be a fear (possibly justified) that the sales potential of longer (4-cars and above) units would be hampered by the inevitable per-set cost of selling only  as "Train Packs". The complexity imposed by modern demands for DCC/sound/lighting links throughout preclude selling individual models and the risks of unsellable leftovers if too many purchasers were to buy less-than-a-set for space reasons would be too great anyway.  

 

The "parochial" and "one livery" (so far) nature of most recent units is undoubtedly a problem when it comes to picking what to make. All of those factors combine to ensure that any such models would be made in smaller overall quantities and therefore cost significantly more to buy than most existing models.

 

All that signposts a production scenario, for models of this kind, based on crowd-funding, or at least "threshold selling" with purchasers signing up to buy before the models get developed. Frankly, that's just not Hornby (or Bachmann) territory.

 

IMHO, the "big boys" aren't likely to be tempted-in until a truly widespread prototype emerges or there have been a couple of franchise changes to break the "one version" dilemma that applies to existing classes.

 

John 

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6 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

TESCO in Prestwich (Manchester) had two catalogues but no Hornby magazines. Local ASDAs in Bury and Bolton had magazines but no catalogue! Will be ordering direct as mentioned earlier and take advantage of the combined price!

 

Personally, not much of interest but hats off to HR for such a raft of products. My biggest disappointment (aka unfulfilled "wish") was for OO/4mm:foot Wagonlits sleeper coaches and a fourgon, so I could model the night sleeper boat train to go behind my SR locos! Yes, I know this is a limited interest consist, but as a "prototypical length" train could be just four coaches and two fourgons, it would be an easy one  to model (as opposed to prototypical length HSTs, Pendolinos, APTs etc etc). Someone suggested I checked Hornby's Electrotren range, but none there (and would be to HO scale and so look positively anaemic against OO locos!)

 

Perhaps I'll demonstrate my ignorance here, but I am quite surprised they don't release the class 71 as a class 74 - wouldn't that simply mean a new roof moulding? TTBOMK, the chassis is the same so a relatively "easy" model to create? (I know there were only ten of them, but there was only one "Rocket"! :lol: )

 

I do also wish they had gone for completely new designs for the "steampunk" range using their existing chassis, rather than sticking random bits of tubing and gears onto existing models. (If I was going to produce a new steampunk range, I would have got input from established steampunk modellers/designers, even those not directly involved with railways! Of course, I have no idea whether they did, nor about the costing restrictions placed upon the designers!) My cousin's three young boys are definitely the market these are aimed towards - I'll show them the photos and get their reactions!

 

 

 

I saw somewhere in a video they got the help of Lawrie Calvert who is heavily into steam punk and created Cato Pass. Sounds like he pretty much designed the range from what I saw. 

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6 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Trouble with endlessly chasing "current scene" is that we now have a myriad of units most of which are confined to a relatively small geographic area.

While they are London-centered, the Electrostar family is still a good bet as the changes between each class wouldn't be huge.  But then I don't see much of the Desiro family (come on, the 185 would be easy, surely?) being made, despite having a lot of the groundwork already in place.

 

You're right, but then how many people purchase a model with no real intention to run it regularly?

Most, if not all of my models aren't concerned with an era or theme - just what locos I like the look of.

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Picked up my catalogue and copy of Hornby magazine in my local Tesco last night. Strapline on the shelf about the offer - as well as one about the new Airfix catalogue along with Airfix Model World magazine. 

 

Getting the two big brands out there is really good. 

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

But, of course, 2020 was inevitably going to be the "Year of the HST", whatever Hornby might have in mind beyond this year.

 

Post-privatisation locos are fairly well represented from other makers but it appears that nobody really wants to get stuck in where units are concerned. There still seems to be a fear (possibly justified) that the sales potential of longer (4-cars and above) units would be hampered by the inevitable per-set cost of selling only  as "Train Packs". The complexity imposed by modern demands for DCC/sound/lighting links throughout preclude selling individual models and the risks of unsellable leftovers if too many purchasers were to buy less-than-a-set for space reasons would be too great anyway.  

 

And in that light it's interesting that Hornby have gone for providing 'add-on' sets for the APT. rather than an all-or-nothing approach.

 

Working out how much to make of each one can't be fun.

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17 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

And in that light it's interesting that Hornby have gone for providing 'add-on' sets for the APT. rather than an all-or-nothing approach.

 

Working out how much to make of each one can't be fun.

 

Since release isnt going to be until December 2020 (and possibly not until next year), it wouldnt surprise me if they adjust the runs based on pre-orders between now and say, the summer. 

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I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

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39 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

And in that light it's interesting that Hornby have gone for providing 'add-on' sets for the APT. rather than an all-or-nothing approach.

 

Working out how much to make of each one can't be fun.

A part-set plus one, two, or sometimes more add-on/completion coach packs has been common practice in the US market for many years. Experience builds as to how many of the "booster" packs can be expected to sell, as a proportion of the basic pack quantity.

 

It's not an exact science, so the trick (commercially) is to under-, rather than over-produce the add-ons and those modellers/collectors who habitually want the full train have got used to managing their pre-ordering to ensure they don't miss out.

 

Those who want a full-length APT, please note.

 

John

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1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

Since release isnt going to be until December 2020 (and possibly not until next year), it wouldnt surprise me if they adjust the runs based on pre-orders between now and say, the summer. 

 

Fine for people ordering everything at once. I was thinking more of judging how many people are likely to get the 'starter set' but then want to increase it later, perhaps as funds allow.

 

And does this tilt? You'd think so, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned?

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49 minutes ago, Watto1990 said:

I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

 

Judging by the train sets being sold in ASDA at under half price before Christmas, possibly not.

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22 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

Fine for people ordering everything at once. I was thinking more of judging how many people are likely to get the 'starter set' but then want to increase it later, perhaps as funds allow.

 

And does this tilt? You'd think so, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned?

Hi,

 

I haven't seen any mention of the quality of the models in the announcements apart from the name Railroad Plus being applied to some 'Limby' items. As you mention does the APT tilt?. It is only going to have an 8 pin DCC socket so is unlikely to have cab lights. Will it have eight wheel drive and twin flywheels or four wheel drive and a Pendolino like motor bogie?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

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3 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

I haven't seen any mention of the quality of the models in the announcements apart from the name Railroad Plus being applied to some 'Limby' items. As you mention does the APT tilt?. It is only going to have an 8 pin DCC socket so is unlikely to have cab lights. Will it have eight wheel drive and twin flywheels or four wheel drive and a Pendolino like motor bogie?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

I really hope Hornby move from the 8 pin DCC socket to something with a few more functions - 8 pin just doesn't cut it anymore. With the full Power Car space available there wont be any need for just a cut-down bogie drive so I hope they make it like a proper loco underneath.

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1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

Fine for people ordering everything at once. I was thinking more of judging how many people are likely to get the 'starter set' but then want to increase it later, perhaps as funds allow.

 

 

There definitely won't be as many add-packs as there will starter sets and, as has been pointed out, Hornby will base production numbers around pre-order levels. Put simply, if they get twice as many orders for the base set as the add-ons, that's (at least roughly) what will get made.

 

Many purchasers just won't have big enough layouts to run a full-length APT and neither Hornby or retailers will want to be left with surplus coach packs that are useless for anything else. Those who do want a complete train will have to judge for themselves the risk of losing out if they defer purchase.  

 

Sorry, but the way the industry works since production got outsourced to China means that, to be certain of getting something we want, we have to take the decision while it's there to be had.

 

John

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1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

Judging by the train sets being sold in ASDA at under half price before Christmas, possibly not.

 

I'm wary of that, having seen trainsets being sold at large discounts, for around £50, which actually just have a cheap 0-4-0, a couple of wagons and a circle of track, ie, pretty much the same thing as the regular entry-level set which retails at £50. And no one would have paid the original price of £119.00 or whatever. 

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45 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

There definitely won't be as many add-packs as there will starter sets and, as has been pointed out, Hornby will base production numbers around pre-order levels. Put simply, if they get twice as many orders for the base set as the add-ons, that's (at least roughly) what will get made.

 

Many purchasers just won't have big enough layouts to run a full-length APT and neither Hornby or retailers will want to be left with surplus coach packs that are useless for anything else. Those who do want a complete train will have to judge for themselves the risk of losing out if they defer purchase.  

 

Sorry, but the way the industry works since production got outsourced to China means that, to be certain of getting something we want, we have to take the decision while it's there to be had.

 

John

 

The prices of some second hand stuff that were only made one or two years shows you can't miss stuff if you want it.

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2 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Fine for people ordering everything at once. I was thinking more of judging how many people are likely to get the 'starter set' but then want to increase it later, perhaps as funds allow.

 

And does this tilt? You'd think so, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned?

This question was asked at the press day. The answer was that the tilt arrangement will be the same as it was on the earlier model. (CJL)

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

There definitely won't be as many add-packs as there will starter sets and, as has been pointed out, Hornby will base production numbers around pre-order levels. Put simply, if they get twice as many orders for the base set as the add-ons, that's (at least roughly) what will get made.

 

The prices extra coach packs appear on eBay for suggest you should buy them new if you want them.

If you don't want them after all you can always eBay them for more than the pack they are extra for...

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48 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

This question was asked at the press day. The answer was that the tilt arrangement will be the same as it was on the earlier model. (CJL)

 

In other words, it'll tilt when it shouldn't and will just be an expensive clown train.

More novelty toy than scale model.

(I'm not referring to the prototype here).

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