Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Legend]

12 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

In other words, it'll tilt when it shouldn't and will just be an expensive clown train.

More novelty toy than scale model.

(I'm not referring to the prototype here).

 

I'm puzzled as to what the alternative might be .  Servos independently controlled ? I think it really has to be a simple mechanical function in order to keep cost down .  OK so no different from the 40 year old model, Bachmanns Voyager or indeed the successor Hornby Pendolino .

 

I think in models its unreasonable not to accept some compromises.  Or did you want one with no tilt at all?

 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

I'm puzzled as to what the alternative might be .  Servos independently controlled ? I think it really has to be a simple mechanical function in order to keep cost down .  OK so no different from the 40 year old model, Bachmanns Voyager or indeed the successor Hornby Pendolino .

 

I think in models its unreasonable not to accept some compromises.  Or did you want one with no tilt at all?

 

 

What's wrong with the 221s tilt? Mine tilts when it's going round corners and doesn't when it isn't, isn't that what it's supposed to do?

[Legend]

Just now, TomScrut said:

 

What's wrong with the 221s tilt? Mine tilts when it's going round corners and doesn't when it isn't, isn't that what it's supposed to do?

 

Yes mines the same Tom.  I think the point Ron Ron Ron is making is that tilt is only really activated out on long sinuous curves and not when perhaps going over a crossover at low speed. Our Voyagers and APTs will tilt at low speed whereas in reality they don't

 

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Yes mines the same Tom.  I think the point Ron Ron Ron is making is that tilt is only really activated out on long sinuous curves and not when perhaps going over a crossover at low speed. Our Voyagers and APTs will tilt at low speed whereas in reality they don't

 

 

Aaaah OK. I thought (having not seen an old APT model) that it would tilt on its own say down a straight or something.

 

Yeah I can't see any fairer than having the tilt driven off the bogie position.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

What's wrong with the 221s tilt? Mine tilts when it's going round corners and doesn't when it isn't, isn't that what it's supposed to do?

take the springs out between the bogie and the body frame. It might not tilt any more but it will stay on the tracks coming out of corners, unlike mine when first operated.

[Pmorgancym]

4 hours ago, Watto1990 said:

I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

Doubt Hornby want to get invokved in being nailed to a very low.unit price, which is what all the big supermarkets are about.

[Ron Ron Ron]

41 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Yes mines the same Tom.  I think the point Ron Ron Ron is making is that tilt is only really activated out on long sinuous curves and not when perhaps going over a crossover at low speed. Our Voyagers and APTs will tilt at low speed whereas in reality they don't

 

 

Thanks Legend (sorry I don't know your name) that's the point I'm making.

The train would not normally be seen tilting except when out at high speed. 

Certainly not while progressing through station areas, point work or at moderate speed even on curves.

 

If anyone wanted to recreate the tilt with even a modicum of realism, it would need a big layout with suitable long runs and appropriate curves.

Wizzing it around an 8x4 roundy round just to see the tilt working is just a bit of fun, some may disagree and call it child like. Either way it's not very prototypical and rather questions why a proper scale model attempt, with a price tag to match, is being used.

I question why this novelty feature needs to be employed at all?

I assumed this new model was rather a different item to the toy train-set market Pendolino

 

[90rob]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

I've just added the video into the 100th anniversary post at the front of the topic.

 

 

 

Am I the only one who finds this video a bit depressing...?

[JohnR]

2 minutes ago, 90rob said:

 

Am I the only one who finds this video a bit depressing...?

 

I have to admit I was struggling a bit with the timeline. I'm assuming the chap was born in 1920? Which makes him 50 when he's selling his stuff in 1970 (He's holding the Triang Evening Star). 

[Pmorgancym]

10 minutes ago, 90rob said:

 

Am I the only one who finds this video a bit depressing...?

Christ that's bleak.

 

Also 1950s Hornby man, definatly punching above his weight.

[30801]

28 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

If anyone wanted to recreate the tilt with even a modicum of realism, it would need a big layout with suitable long runs and appropriate curves.

Wizzing it around an 8x4 roundy round just to see the tilt working is just a bit of fun, some may disagree and call it child like. Either way it's not very prototypical and rather questions why a proper scale model attempt, with a price tag to match, is being used.

 

I guess you could do it with a servo, a microcontroller and some sort of attitude sensor but it wouldn't be cheap and a realistic tilt might not be all that visible anyway.

 

A more realistic approach might be to make the wedgy bits on the bogies or whatever removable to allow running flat. I don't think you could really sell an APT model and have no ability to tilt at all.

Edited January 9, 2020 by 30801

[classy52]

Looks like the entire Hornby marketing dept. got acting jobs as well 

[Ron Ron Ron]

5 minutes ago, 30801 said:

........I don't think you could really sell an APT model and have no ability to tilt at all.

 

Well they do make and sell lots of Steam locomotive models and not a single one of them burns coal or emits smoke and steam.

 

 

.

[Pmorgancym]

I remember being on a coach tour from South Wales to the Margate factory in 80?81?.  And them demonstrating the APT and being proud of the fact that their APT could reliably tilt inlike the real one.

(Also a lot of mutterings from the tour party that as it was my birthday 'the mean could have given him something')

[tomparryharry]

8 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Looks like the entire Hornby marketing dept. got acting jobs as well 

 

You can see the top of Mr. York's head at about 6 seconds in.

 

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist it!

 

Please delete if it offends.

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, Watto1990 said:

I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

Can’t see either Tesco or Hornby going for this in the wake of W H Smith’s pulling out of a situation they found loss making.  Part of the problem IMHO is that supermarket models are expected to be cheaper than online or ‘proper’ model shop, and prices are already cut to the bone.  The day of the loss leader is over; it only leads to loss!

 

Big store Hornby, as available in Hobbies or Hamley’s, is priced at RRP, and you don’t get the feeling that turnover is rapid...

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

If anyone wanted to recreate the tilt with even a modicum of realism, it would need a big layout with suitable long runs and appropriate curves.

Wizzing it around an 8x4 roundy round just to see the tilt working is just a bit of fun, some may disagree and call it child like. Either way it's not very prototypical and rather questions why a proper scale model attempt, with a price tag to match, is being used.

I question why this novelty feature needs to be employed at all?

I assumed this new model was rather a different item to the toy train-set market Pendolino

 

I doubt the RMweb server could cope with the moans if Hornby produced an APT that didn't tilt, yet you are seriously suggesting that's what they do!

[Phil Parker]

6 hours ago, Watto1990 said:

I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

 

They did get some sets into either Lidl or Aldi but deliberately didn't aim for lots. Margins are a lot lower in the supermarket world and they are much harder to deal with. The process also takes at least 18 months, you don't just ring up and say, "Hello Mr Tesco, we have a van full of train sets we'd like you to sell." It might happen one day though.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I doubt the RMweb server could cope with the moans if Hornby produced an APT that didn't tilt, yet you are seriously suggesting that's what they do!

 

On balance I am Phil.

Otherwise there'll been no escaping the fact that, notwithstanding the fidelity of the model, it will be an expensive joke.

 

I know you will strongly disagree with that, but I have to ask, what are they attempting to produce here, a scale model or a toy?

[MarkSG]

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

They did get some sets into either Lidl or Aldi but deliberately didn't aim for lots. Margins are a lot lower in the supermarket world and they are much harder to deal with. The process also takes at least 18 months, you don't just ring up and say, "Hello Mr Tesco, we have a van full of train sets we'd like you to sell." It might happen one day though.

 

It also fits more with the "flash sale" sections of Aldi and Lidl, though. They deliberately stock stuff for a short run, because the regularly changing content of "the middle of Lidl" (and whatever Aldi's equivalent phrase is) is one of their selling points. Tesco, on the other hand, prefer to have a more consistent offering in their toys and games.

 

The other problem with train sets, in particular, is that they physically don't fit Tesco's standard shelving in a convenient way. Tesco prefers to sell toys that are smaller and squarer, if you know what I mean.

[Phil Parker]

10 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

On balance I am Phil.

Otherwise there'll been no escaping the fact that, notwithstanding the fidelity of the model, it will be an expensive joke.

 

I know you will strongly disagree with that, but I have to ask, what are they attempting to produce here, a scale model or a toy?

 

They are trying to produce a model that will sell. You might buy a non-tilting APT but I doubt overall sales would get into double figures.

[MarkSG]

36 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Big store Hornby, as available in Hobbies or Hamley’s, is priced at RRP, and you don’t get the feeling that turnover is rapid...

 

Hamley's isn't a discounter, though. They market themselves as "The Finest Toy Shop in the World" and focus strongly on the premium aspect of their offering. Hamley's are to toys what Fortum and Mason are to food - you don't go there if you want cheap, you go there if you want quality. But turnover doesn't have to be rapid when you're selling on a big margin.

[tomparryharry]

6 hours ago, Watto1990 said:

I do think it’s a bit weird that I bought a Hornby catalogue at Tesco but was unable to buy any actual products at the same time. Would it be worth trying to get some starter train sets and maybe even a small selection of the Railroad range on the shelves of the toy aisles in supermarkets this year, I wonder? 

 

The parallel would be a magazine like Classic Cars' where the give-away item is a couple of zip-ties.  I could well imagine a woodworking magazine at Asda, where the checkout would consist of a 12" table saw blade, a kilo of nails  some varnish, and a courgette....

 

Oh, and a tin of diet coke, gotta watch the waistline.....

 

Ian.

[woodenhead]

17 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

On balance I am Phil.

Otherwise there'll been no escaping the fact that, notwithstanding the fidelity of the model, it will be an expensive joke.

 

I know you will strongly disagree with that, but I have to ask, what are they attempting to produce here, a scale model or a toy?

Is the Pendolino a scale model or a toy or perhaps both.

 

Afterall we play with trains.

[MarkSG]

16 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

On balance I am Phil.

Otherwise there'll been no escaping the fact that, notwithstanding the fidelity of the model, it will be an expensive joke.

 

I know you will strongly disagree with that, but I have to ask, what are they attempting to produce here, a scale model or a toy?

 

Rapido used a mechanical tilting mechanism for the APT-E, which has exactly the same issue that it tilts even when moving slowly. But that sold like hot cakes. I don't know whether Hornby's system is quite as sophisticated as Rapido's, but then, it's also a lot cheaper. And the APT-P sold well enough the last time it was in Hornby's catalogue. That's one of the reasons people have been calling for it to come back!