Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

Personally, I could see Hornby's point about the Class 66 (the Terrier is well out of region and era for me so have no opinion on that). They already had tooling for it and they were bringing out current day liveries at a cheaper price than competitors so I can imagine perhaps younger modellers or those with less budget wanting something they can or have seen on the current railway and loco options on that front are limited. I would also suggest that the potential market for Class 66s would be far higher than that for the Class 91.

 

This also isn't just slapping new paint on their existing Class 91 tooling and chucking that out to see what sells, they are retooling from scratch here and from the RRP price it looks like both are aiming at similar areas of the market, the Hornby may come in slightly cheaper but the Cavalex is likely to be more feature-rich.

 

On hearing Simon Kohlers interview comments about the Mk4 coaches, that is the same kind of wording as was used for the 91 before - non-commital, maybe you'll get it and maybe you wont. That is hardly a clear indication that they have plans for it and even the Hornbyistas here cannot possibly interpret that as a 'yes, they're on their way so the Mk4 is ours and everyone else leave them alone'.

 

I know Hornby keep their plans close to their chest until its actually announced, but I'd expect duplication especially for more niche classes would be a bad thing all round and Hornby must have suffered at times too. Would it be a suggestion to outline what prototypes its looking at in the next 5 or 10 years possibly so not confirmed releases and liveries that 'these are coming' but the kind of realistic intentions which might get a nudge or wink if asked at exhibitions.

 

I know manufacturers have been slated in the past for long delivery times, but I can imagine there is a lot of work going into producing such detailed models and wasted effort and reduced sales cannot help anyone when there could be far more productive avenues to follow. Surely there should be space in the market for smaller manufacturers to get started too and stand or fail on the quality of their products. If Hornby is the best then they should have nothing to fear and just look very childish with their current aggressive approach to competition.

 

Neither the Class 91, the Mk4s or anything else belongs to Hornby. and their old ones are very old and very much of their time.

 

That stimulated someone else to have a go and Hornby, either by coincidence or from a perceived need, (perhaps born of insecurity), to prevent new competitors getting established, have embarked on a new version. It's neither here nor there which applies, or how long ago the decision was taken. 

 

There's no doubt that Hornby will make coaches and a DVT to go with their 91, for any model of the class is meaningless without them. There are only two questions that need to be answered. [1] When?  and [2] To what standard, Railroad, Railroad Plus, or "Full Fat"?

 

Of course, they could surprise everybody and go for ElectricPunk. 

 

John

Edited January 15, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Mallard60022]

32 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Neither the Class 91, the Mk4s or anything else belongs to Hornby. and their old ones are very old and very much of their time.

 

That stimulated someone else to have a go and Hornby, either by coincidence or from a perceived need, (perhaps born of insecurity), to prevent new competitors getting established, have embarked on a new version. It's neither here nor there which applies, or how long ago the decision was taken. 

 

There's no doubt that Hornby will make coaches and a DVT to go with their 91, for any model of the class is meaningless without them. There are only two questions that need to be answered. [1] When?  and [2] To what standard, Railroad, Railroad Plus, or "Full Fat"?

 

Of course, they could surprise everybody and go for ElectricPunk. 

 

John

What I'm looking forward to is Bulleid Punk.  It will look not unlike 'Leader'.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

OO Class 66:

 

Premiership, Hattons,

Championship, Bachmann,

League One, Hornby.

 

Prices set accordingly.

 

John

Saturday League, Lima

 

UEFA cup winners.. ESU

Europa cup winners.. Heljan
Cup winners cup .. Mehano..

 

though dont write off Liverpool, they have always done well in Europe, even if they are pretenders  domestically...maybe Hattons are following the Kop tradition of round objects rolling off past the frames at a time of scrutiny if the new 66 & 2018 Champions league final was anything to go by.

it was 3 rolling objects past the frames there too!

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by adb968008

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

I'm seriously perplexed as to why anyone wants Hornby to re-do the power car- any new issue would be only fractionally better than the existing power cars. Lets have some tweaking on the Mk3's like a better buffet car selection, more accurate detailing on planned releases etc etc 

[TomScrut]

12 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm seriously perplexed as to why anyone wants Hornby to re-do the power car- any new issue would be only fractionally better than the existing power cars. Lets have some tweaking on the Mk3's like a better buffet car selection, more accurate detailing on planned releases etc etc 

 

I wasn't saying somebody should, more that if the marketplace is big enough for 2 91s, which ran on one piece of track for 30 years, then I'm surprised nobody has had a go given they have ran pretty much everywhere for the last 40 odd years and you need 2 power cars per train so realistically each customer needs 2 models out of the one mould.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

The market may be twice the size but then so is the selling price, almost! My main problem with the Hornby ones I've got (and I accept this may be unique to me) is that I don't dare do anything to a model I've just paid £250 for!! On my blue/grey duo of W43032 and W43033 all I dared do was renumber one to something else (as anyone modelling any period after c1980 with a consecutively numbered pair has something highly unrealistic!), remove the set numbers from the front, some very light weathering adding exhaust stains to the roof and dirt around the underframe, paint the fuel gauges and the ETS jumper receptacles and then leave everything else well alone. 

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

 

There's no doubt that Hornby will make coaches and a DVT to go with their 91, for any model of the class is meaningless without them. There are only two questions that need to be answered. [1] When?  and [2] To what standard, Railroad, Railroad Plus, or "Full Fat"?

 

 

 

If they do make Mk4 coaches, then doing them to a standard that doesn't match the new 91 is nothing other than (strong term deleted) daft.

 

Although there is an ongoing precedent with one manufacturer making the loco and another coaches to a comparable standard - Dapol 68/Accurascale Mk5

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

If they do make Mk4 coaches, then doing them to a standard that doesn't match the new 91 is nothing other than (strong term deleted) daft.

 

Although there is an ongoing precedent with one manufacturer making the loco and another coaches to a comparable standard - Dapol 68/Accurascale Mk5

Absolutely so, but Hornby have clearly demonstrated in recent times that the latter wouldn't fit their mindset this side of hell freezing over.

 

Not to make Mk4 stock to go with their Class 91 would be no more logical than making HST power cars but no Mk3s to go between them. It's obvious to anyone with even the sketchiest knowledge of the prototype that they will make such models sooner or later. So why not be clear about it?

 

Possible reasons:

 

1. (Hornby on the offensive) To create faux uncertainty to undermine Cavalex's position.  

 

2. (Hornby on the defensive) That the sheer volume of other new product announced means there will be significant gap (12 months minimum) between the Hornby loco and any stock; public admission of which would boost Cavalex.

 

3. (My analysis) Both.

 

Any other ideas?

 

John

 

[Phil Parker]

33 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Any other ideas?

 

Accept that most modellers just like to buy shiny locomotives that will live in their boxes and don't buy trains to go behind them.

[TomScrut]

8 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

The market may be twice the size but then so is the selling price, almost! My main problem with the Hornby ones I've got (and I accept this may be unique to me) is that I don't dare do anything to a model I've just paid £250 for!! On my blue/grey duo of W43032 and W43033 all I dared do was renumber one to something else (as anyone modelling any period after c1980 with a consecutively numbered pair has something highly unrealistic!), remove the set numbers from the front, some very light weathering adding exhaust stains to the roof and dirt around the underframe, paint the fuel gauges and the ETS jumper receptacles and then leave everything else well alone. 

 

Not exactly. If you want to make a rake using a new 91 you need to buy a DVT which at like for like quality to the HST is about £70 based on the MK3 DVT. So you're well over £200 for a new 91 and a hypothetical high quality Hornby MK4 DVT, or the Cavalex one I presume will be of that magnitude of cost. But from a project viability perspective, doing 91s/mk4s would be significantly more expensive because the DVT body is not the same as the 91. With a HST most of the tooling (other than driven vs non driven bogies and maybe some internal stuff) should be the same at both ends.  So for one sale the tooling gets used twice, faster payback on investment etc.

[Dunsignalling]

29 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Accept that most modellers just like to buy shiny locomotives that will live in their boxes and don't buy trains to go behind them.

 

That isn't modelling, it's collecting, but they are sales for Hornby either way and I must ask for a number of such offences to be taken into consideration m'lud....

 

However, in my case, that more often seems to apply to makers other than Hornby. As a modeller of BR(s) c1960, what the heck am I doing with (amongst other things) a L&Y Radial tank, a Super D, the DP1 prototype and "Falcon" in WR condition?

 

John

Edited January 16, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

As a modeller of BR(s) c1960, what the heck am I doing with (amongst other things) a L&Y Radial tank, a Super D, the DP1 prototype and "Falcon" in WR condition?

 

John

Invoking rule 1 of course. 

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Invoking rule 1 of course. 

Not really, I don't run them at all.....

[Chris116]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not really, I don't run them at all.....

Time to build a new layout for them!!!!!

Edited January 16, 2020 by Chris116
Spelling Mistake!

[The Johnster]

On 15/01/2020 at 14:28, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

I don't remember anyone moaning when Mainline and Airfix both made Royal Scots, or Lima and Hornby made HSTs. People just picked the one they wanted.

I do, but alongside the moans (which you heard at shows or in magazine letters pages rather than on line where there is much more opportunity to indulge in a bit of a moan) were the comparisons.  FWIW, and it's academic because I was never in the market for either a Scoyal Rot or one of them wedgy HST things, I'd have gone for the Mainline Scot because I don't like tender drive, and the Lima HST because, at that time, they had the edge on H in tooling and finish, as well as scale length coaches.

 

I'd have made a decision about the Scot that would have been ill-advised given the hindsight knowledge of Mainline's split chassis issues.  I had an Airfix Castle which looked ok but I was never happy with the running of it.  This was the period during which I developed my hatred of traction tyres.

Edited January 16, 2020 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

35 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Time to build a new layout for them!!!!!

That assortment would need three layouts.

 

They are due to go into a new display cabinet once I rearrange things, then they'll be more likely to make "Guest appearances".....

 

John

[TomScrut]

Got my catalogue now, I think it's odd how it has everything they have available now and almost everything they have available to pre order other than the first LNER 800 which seems to have been missed for some reason. I know the Scottish one looks about the same but the catalogue also has three red class 60s in it!

 

I wonder if they deleted some stuff (such as the TPE 802 mentioned in the book) and had to lose something else to gain the whole page. Maybe another 802 like GWR or Hull Trains?

[adb968008]

On 15/01/2020 at 14:28, Steamport Southport said:

I don't remember anyone moaning when Mainline and Airfix both made Royal Scots, or Lima and Hornby made HSTs. People just picked the one they wanted.

Maybe this is a good time to point out its exactly 30 years (almost to the week) that traders rocked up to Earls Court, rushed around the toy fair, only to see a Bachmann class 46 EP on their stand, and a brand new 1989/90 Lima Catalog on the Riko stand, both professing to bring a 44,45,45/1 and 46 out in 1990 in various incarnations.

 

Yet 30 years later...  The sealed beam headlight 45/1 is yet to be seen and Replica’s offering from 1988 is still the most current tooling. Indeed we still have duplication announced, both Bachmann and Heljan.. and Bachmanns is at EP stage and Heljans is catalog artwork... nothing has changed.

Edited January 16, 2020 by adb968008

[Ruffnut Thorston]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

That assortment would need three layouts.

 

They are due to go into a new display cabinet once I rearrange things, then they'll be more likely to make "Guest appearances".....

 

John

 

Don't forget David Jenkinson's "funny trains".

 

He had complete trains that didn't strictly fit into the layouts area or period, that he would run when he wanted to...

 

Our BR (W) North Wales branch line, c1952-1954 has a whole fleet of Southern Region stock as well...

 

Several are locos from the Bluebell Railway, where we did some volunteer work back in the days of the 5 mile line!

 

[MGR Hooper!]

Some images from the KMRC's facebook page

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are general release items that may/may not have their own dedicated threads. There's other pics which I'll share in the dedicated threads.

Edited January 17, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[Colin_McLeod]

My Hornby 2020 catalogue.. and the box it came in!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Colin_McLeod
Edit to redact address.

[Pre Grouping fan]

31 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

My Hornby 2020 catalogue.. and the box it came in!!!

 

 

WOW

 

I saw a comment on Hattons Facebook about their catalogue turning up in a box. Didn't quite realise it was like this! Hattons should know better really especially in this day and age. Surely a jiffy bag or a close fitting card box would have sufficed? 

[philiprporter]

That's pretty shocking. Mine arrived from Key in a sturdy envelope which was perfectly fine and protective. Aren't we all meant to be cutting down on plastic waste? Thankfully I suspect most of us modellers are pretty good at reusing but that's a hell of a lot of plastic bubble packing. 

[truffy]

2 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

That's pretty shocking. Mine arrived from Key in a sturdy envelope which was perfectly fine and protective. Aren't we all meant to be cutting down on plastic waste? Thankfully I suspect most of us modellers are pretty good at reusing but that's a hell of a lot of plastic bubble packing. 

It's not just the plastic. That enormous box may well be recyclable, but it it takes resources (energy, water etc.) to do it. These 'hidden' environmental costs often get overlooked in the plastics hoo-hah.

Edited January 17, 2020 by truffy

[classy52]

3 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

That's pretty shocking. Mine arrived from Key in a sturdy envelope which was perfectly fine and protective. Aren't we all meant to be cutting down on plastic waste? Thankfully I suspect most of us modellers are pretty good at reusing but that's a hell of a lot of plastic bubble packing. 

 

Yes mine came from Key Publishing as well in a stiff envelope and perfectly acceptable as far as packaging is concerned, but I think Hatton's has a bit of history in over the top packaging.