Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Legend]

On ‎15‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 14:28, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

I don't remember anyone moaning when Mainline and Airfix both made Royal Scots, or Lima and Hornby made HSTs. People just picked the one they wanted.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 Remember the market they arrived in though . I've always been a Hornby fan but they had rested on their laurels . Their contemporary releases were Sir Dinadan and the J83, so when Mainline and Airfix arrived they were a revelation . People were just so keen that there were now alternative manufacturers they welcomed them with open arms .  I did anyway!   Nowadays we have moved on , the market is much more discerning and frankly there is a lot of choice and comparisons to be made . 

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

WOW

 

I saw a comment on Hattons Facebook about their catalogue turning up in a box. Didn't quite realise it was like this! Hattons should know better really especially in this day and age. Surely a jiffy bag or a close fitting card box would have sufficed? 

 

I suspect the issue is that Hatton's goods-out department is geared up for packaging models, most of which do need to be properly protected, and it's not worth their while investing in things like Jiffy bags for the relatively small proportion of orders that don't need any special protection beyond a suitable envelope. It also won't be costing them any more to send it like this; their delivery costs will be based on weight, not dimensions, so it doesn't matter how much air is in the box.

 

It's not just Hatton's that do this, a lot of online retailers tend to use oversize boxes, and for the same reason: it's simply easier and cheaper for them to use a small number of standard sizes than getting lots of different sized boxes that more closely match the contents.

[stewartingram]

Not just Hattons and a catalogue.

Last week I received 2x Precision paint tinlets from PP, in a similar size box, stuffed with expanded foam chips and bubble wrap!

 

Stewart

[Steamport Southport]

This has been done to death. Couriers won't accept anything else apart from boxes of a certain size from a business, Royal Mail are also following suit. "Chinese" packets are soon going to be banned as will anything other than paper going as letters.

 

You try sorting and then stacking a van with thousands of packets of various shapes and sizes....

 

 

 

Jason

Edited January 17, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[NoggintheNog]

Rails sent my catalogue in a padded envelope/jiffy bag thing.

 

Arrived just fine. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by NoggintheNog

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

  Nowadays we have moved on , the market is much more discerning and frankly there is a lot of choice and comparisons to be made . 

The market was always pretty discerning, and I don't think it is any more so now than it ever was, but expectations have risen as the suppliers have given us ever better models.  Even when the Mainline/Airfix revolution hit, the ranges were small and it was still considered enough for each company to produce a passenger and a goods/mixed traffic loco for each company/region.  IIRC only Hornby were doing any Southern steam at all, and the J83 was the first RTR NBR product ever.  The only Southern diesel was Lima's D65xx.

[The Johnster]

Standard size boxes are used to maximise storage space utilisation in warehouses and containers/delivery vehicles.  It's a difficult thing to be precise about, and undoubtedly the extra and unnecessary material used in oversized boxes has a carbon cost, but so does empty space in containers and warehouses, and the extra handling, manual or mechanical, needed to cope with non-standard size boxes.  It sounds mad, I know, but boxes of mostly fresh air save handling costs.  Swings and roundabouts...

[Legend]

You can make a direct comparison between the Hornby J83 and the Mainline J72 both New in 76  and see the difference in fidelity . Even though I’m a Scottish Modeller and buy most Scottish models I’ve never bought a J83 recognising it for what it is . A poor jinty substitute that’s far too tall for starters . 

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

 

 Remember the market they arrived in though . I've always been a Hornby fan but they had rested on their laurels . Their contemporary releases were Sir Dinadan and the J83, so when Mainline and Airfix arrived they were a revelation . People were just so keen that there were now alternative manufacturers they welcomed them with open arms .  I did anyway!   Nowadays we have moved on , the market is much more discerning and frankly there is a lot of choice and comparisons to be made . 

 

That wasn't really the point I was making.

 

People weren't accusing Airfix or Mainline/Lima or Hornby of "stamping all over the opposition" by releasing similar models like has been suggested that Hornby are doing earlier in the thread. The manufacturers took it on the nose and made better models.

 

Unfortunately two of those manufacturers stopped trading not long after, but that wasn't anything to do with the model railway sector. More the owners General Mills going in a different direction and the demise of the toy sector in general.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palitoy

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The market was always pretty discerning, and I don't think it is any more so now than it ever was, but expectations have risen as the suppliers have given us ever better models.  Even when the Mainline/Airfix revolution hit, the ranges were small and it was still considered enough for each company to produce a passenger and a goods/mixed traffic loco for each company/region.  IIRC only Hornby were doing any Southern steam at all, and the J83 was the first RTR NBR product ever.  The only Southern diesel was Lima's D65xx.

 

Airfix had planned, just for the SR.

 

Schools 4-4-0

Lord Nelson 4-6-0

U Class 2-6-0

LSWR O2 0-4-4T

LSWR G6 0-6-0T

Bulleid coaches

SR Pillbox brake

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

33 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Standard size boxes are used to maximise storage space utilisation in warehouses and containers/delivery vehicles.  It's a difficult thing to be precise about, and undoubtedly the extra and unnecessary material used in oversized boxes has a carbon cost, but so does empty space in containers and warehouses, and the extra handling, manual or mechanical, needed to cope with non-standard size boxes.  It sounds mad, I know, but boxes of mostly fresh air save handling costs.  Swings and roundabouts...

If you tip the box upside down, does the air fall out ?

[Legend]

46 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Airfix had planned, just for the SR.

 

Schools 4-4-0

Lord Nelson 4-6-0

U Class 2-6-0

LSWR O2 0-4-4T

LSWR G6 0-6-0T

Bulleid coaches

SR Pillbox brake

 

 

Jason

 

Some of them , the Schools and Bullieds actually appeared in background of their catalogues . Isn't it correct that the Bullieds are actually the same as the ones that Bachmann eventually released in the 90s?

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

Some of them , the Schools and Bullieds actually appeared in background of their catalogues . Isn't it correct that the Bullieds are actually the same as the ones that Bachmann eventually released in the 90s?

 

Yes. A lot of them later appeared in other ranges such as Dapol, Replica and Bachmann. They must have done much of the research and development.

 

They also planned a similar amount for the other railways. Just goes to show that Airfix and Mainline were planning on making full ranges like the current Hornby and Bachmann ranges,

 

 

 

Jason

[truffy]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Standard size boxes are used to maximise storage space utilisation in warehouses and containers/delivery vehicles.  It's a difficult thing to be precise about, and undoubtedly the extra and unnecessary material used in oversized boxes has a carbon cost, but so does empty space in containers and warehouses, and the extra handling, manual or mechanical, needed to cope with non-standard size boxes.  It sounds mad, I know, but boxes of mostly fresh air save handling costs.  Swings and roundabouts...

I wonder when Greta Funberg and her band of whimsical japesters will turn their attention to the carbon footprint of shipping air around? And the reduced efficiency of shipping real goods. 

[JSModels]

4 minutes ago, truffy said:

I wonder when Greta Funberg and her band of whimsical japesters will turn their attention to the carbon footprint of shipping air around? And the reduced efficiency of shipping real goods. 

 

The 'extra air' doesn't add anything to the carbon footprint, as it doesn't add any weight. There's no increase in the amount of fuel required to transport it.

 

This is getting a little off topic though...

[truffy]

34 minutes ago, jrb said:

The 'extra air' doesn't add anything to the carbon footprint, as it doesn't add any weight. There's no increase in the amount of fuel required to transport it.

 

You missed the second sentence of my post. Shipping air means that there's less room for goods, so more individual shipments have to be made.

 

Similarly, many aqueous-based formulations are shipped as concentrates and diluted on receipt, to optimise shipping efficiency. A catalogue shipped in a huge box is taking up space that could be used for something else.

[stewartingram]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

If you tip the box upside down, does the air fall out ?

Only if it old, like me....I speak from experience!

[TomScrut]

14 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

You missed the second sentence of my post. Shipping air means that there's less room for goods, so more individual shipments have to be made.

 

Similarly, many aqueous-based formulations are shipped as concentrates and diluted on receipt, to optimise shipping efficiency. A catalogue shipped in a huge box is taking up space that could be used for something else.

 

It does depend a bit though, not saying you're wrong (I think my point when I finish writing it probably means I agree in fact) but as far as I am aware things are shipped by volumetric weight, not sure if that is the correct term but bear with me. It is where the weight and volume are compared to create a worst case.

 

So gold bullion would be taking up more space in the vehicle than its volume would suggest because of its mass (and not being able to fill the vehicle because of the mass of the gold). On the other hand a box with nothing in it would more than likely be taking up more volume than its mass.

 

And I think whatever transport vehicle is used this ratio varies.

 

What I am saying is something like a catalogue which is fairly dense, in a cardboard box may actually be about on the balance of efficient depending on the size of van and lorry the courier uses!

 

But putting it in an envelope still makes it space efficient just whether the space left can be used or not is another matter

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by TomScrut

[No Decorum]

On 16/01/2020 at 18:34, The Johnster said:

I do, but alongside the moans (which you heard at shows or in magazine letters pages rather than on line where there is much more opportunity to indulge in a bit of a moan) were the comparisons.  FWIW, and it's academic because I was never in the market for either a Scoyal Rot or one of them wedgy HST things, I'd have gone for the Mainline Scot because I don't like tender drive, and the Lima HST because, at that time, they had the edge on H in tooling and finish, as well as scale length coaches.

 

I'd have made a decision about the Scot that would have been ill-advised given the hindsight knowledge of Mainline's split chassis issues.  I had an Airfix Castle which looked ok but I was never happy with the running of it.  This was the period during which I developed my hatred of traction tyres.

At the time, I had the general impression that people greeted Airfix locos with delight, which I just couldn’t understand. Solid plastic tender wheels jarred badly with the metal-rimmed loco wheels for a start. The worst of all, in my opinion, was the Class 31, which had metal wheels on one bogie and plastic on the other. Not only were the outer wheels plastic but the middle wheels were moulded as part of the bogie frame. It looked so obvious to me that I wondered if people were blind or, perhaps, they praised Airfix because it was British. In motion, they fizzled and crackled so much that it seemed as if the whole town’s power supply would short out. After some initial false steps, the Mainline finishes were beautiful. It prompted Hornby to start painting models which, up until then, were self-coloured plastic. The difference was amazing.

[MarkSG]

4 hours ago, NoggintheNog said:

Rails sent my catalogue in a padded envelope/jiffy bag thing.

 

Arrived just fine. 

 

I've noticed that Rails tend to be a bit more wide-ranging with their packaging, and somewhat less standardised, than Hatton's. Whenever I've bought anything from Hatton's it's always arrived in a fairly standard box - typically, the long thin ones used for locos and wagons, but sometimes a larger, more rectangular one - and the box is always new. Rails seem to use whatever they have to hand, and don't mind reusing boxes - my Bachmann crane arrived in the box that Bachmann sent it to Rails in, but with the extra space (since I'd only ordered one) filled with foam packaging.

[BritishRail60062]

In regards to Key Publishing, this wasn't the case for me as I received mine in a condition that looked like a bus had ran over it. Had some stern words with them and the replacement was sent in a padded pouch thing. I wouldn't have cared much had it been just a cheap magazine but a Hornby 2020 Brochure at £12 odd (including postage) isn't cheap in my books. I am happy that I got a replacement but if companies use something like a cardboard sleeve or one of those padded pouches. That is ample enough to protect the Brochure in transit when going through the postal system .

[truffy]

1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

Rails seem to use whatever they have to hand, and don't mind reusing boxes 

 

I've had that experience as well...recycling cardboard packaging without the environmental impact of cardboard recycling! 

[Coryton]

3 hours ago, truffy said:

4 hours ago, jrb said:

 

The 'extra air' doesn't add anything to the carbon footprint, as it doesn't add any weight. There's no increase in the amount of fuel required to transport it.

 

 

You missed the second sentence of my post. Shipping air means that there's less room for goods, so more individual shipments have to be made.

 

 

The reason that the extra air can have an effect is due to the fuel used to move the weight of the vehicle itself.

 

To take an extreme example, if you deliver a set of Hornby catalogues each in its own lorry, the total amount of fuel used to deliver them would be a lot greater than if you filled the lorry with catalogues, because you're moving a lot more lorry around. 

 

On the other hand, as someone else has pointed out, maybe you can't fill the lorry. If you can only fill a quarter of the space with catalogues before it exceeds the maximum permitted weight, and each box is four times the volume needed for a catalogue, than the larger boxes aren't doing much harm.

 

And in a desparate attempt to bring this vaguely towards the original topic, if I order something from the 2020 range directly from Hornby, I wonder how big a box it will come in?

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

If you tip the box upside down, does the air fall out ?

If it's been in a cold van all night, and you open it in your warm railway room, Yes.

[brushman47544]

12 hours ago, truffy said:

 

I've had that experience as well...recycling cardboard packaging without the environmental impact of cardboard recycling! 

Hatton’s used to be very good at that. I’m convinced they used to have an arrangement with the local supermarket as I’ve had stuff in reused and chopped up Persil boxes and the like.