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Hornby 2020 range announcements


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11 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

On the other hand, as someone else has pointed out, maybe you can't fill the lorry. If you can only fill a quarter of the space with catalogues before it exceeds the maximum permitted weight, and each box is four times the volume needed for a catalogue, than the larger boxes aren't doing much harm.

You almost certainly can't 'fill' a lorry with catalogues.  Paper is very heavy in bulk, being basically highly condensed wood, and you'd overload it.  

 

When I were a lad, and everything was still in black and white (colour was invented by the Beatles in 1963, as everyone knows), the local newspaoer was printed in a building opposite Cardiff's old main Post Office in Westgate St.  Every morning, a BR Scammel mechanical horse flatbed would turn up at about 9.30 with 3 huge rolls of paper from Ely Paper Mill.  The basement trap doors were opened, and the rolls pinchbarred off the flatbed to drop about 20 feet to the floor.  This was a very impressive thing to watch, as the whole street shook when they impacted with a massive thud.  If anyone were to have been underneath it, there wouldn't have been much left...

 

 

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40 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

You almost certainly can't 'fill' a lorry with catalogues.  Paper is very heavy in bulk, being basically highly condensed wood, and you'd overload it.  

 

When I were a lad, and everything was still in black and white (colour was invented by the Beatles in 1963, as everyone knows), the local newspaoer was printed in a building opposite Cardiff's old main Post Office in Westgate St.  Every morning, a BR Scammel mechanical horse flatbed would turn up at about 9.30 with 3 huge rolls of paper from Ely Paper Mill.  The basement trap doors were opened, and the rolls pinchbarred off the flatbed to drop about 20 feet to the floor.  This was a very impressive thing to watch, as the whole street shook when they impacted with a massive thud.  If anyone were to have been underneath it, there wouldn't have been much left...

 

You'd still need a helluva lot of paper to make a paperweight though. ;)

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21 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Some of them , the Schools and Bullieds actually appeared in background of their catalogues . Isn't it correct that the Bullieds are actually the same as the ones that Bachmann eventually released in the 90s?

 

IIRC the now Dapol Staniers, The now Bachmann P1 LMS coaches and the now Hornby P2 LMS 12 wheeled kitchen car all share common ancestry through Airfix/Mainline

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11 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

IIRC the now Dapol Staniers, The now Bachmann P1 LMS coaches and the now Hornby P2 LMS 12 wheeled kitchen car all share common ancestry through Airfix/Mainline

 

I think the Restaurant 3rd was a Dapol creation. I think that it was just coming out when I visited David Boyle many years ago.

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19 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think the Restaurant 3rd was a Dapol creation. I think that it was just coming out when I visited David Boyle many years ago.

 

The Restaurant Car was Airfix, it's mentioned in the Ramsay's Guide. Mine came in what was virtually Airfix packaging. ISTR it's a RC.

 

 

The Bachmann LMS coaches were Mainline. That's where the history becomes complicated as Dapol were still selling old Mainline stock for years even though they didn't have the tooling.

 

 

 

Jason

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53 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

IIRC the now Dapol Staniers, The now Bachmann P1 LMS coaches and the now Hornby P2 LMS 12 wheeled kitchen car all share common ancestry through Airfix/Mainline

 

40 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think the Restaurant 3rd was a Dapol creation. I think that it was just coming out when I visited David Boyle many years ago.

 

As Southport says, the Dapol Staniers (and the 'Inter-District' non-corridors) originated in the Airfix range, as did the 12-wheel dining car, although I don't think it ever materialised in Airfix guise- Despite being in the Airfix catalogue for a couple of years, it didn't eventually reach the shops until the range had passed (via Palitoy) to Dapol. The P1 brake and composite, plus the 50' full brake, all originated with Mainline, and went on to the Bachmann range.

 

Thinking back it's quite impressive that the two manufacturers managed to avoid duplicating the same LMS coach designs, even if we did get the inevitable combination of Composite and Brake 3rd for each. Throw in Lima's GUV, and the LMS modeller wasn't all that badly served for RTR coaching stock back then. On top of that, Replica Railways went on to offer the Stanier open 3rd- Was that another product that had it's origins at either Airfix/Mainline but never reached the market under their branding?

 

OK, they're not to modern standards, but compared with Hornby's 'toy' Staniers of the period (IIRC, a 60' composite compressed onto a standard 57' chassis with BR Mk1 bogies!), they were a massive step forward.

 

(catalogue image from airfixrailways.co.uk)

 

CoachesA.jpg

Edited by Invicta
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9 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The Restaurant Car was Airfix, it's mentioned in the Ramsay's Guide. Mine came in what was virtually Airfix packaging. ISTR it's a RC.

 

 

The Bachmann LMS coaches were Mainline. That's where the history becomes complicated as Dapol were still selling old Mainline stock for years even though they didn't have the tooling.

 

 

 

Jason

 

It certainly was complicated. I do remember that from my talk with David.

 

An RC would make more sense than a Restaurant Third as there was not a First Vestibule to go with it. I will have to dig mine out and check.

 

I think that those Vestibule 3rd's passed me by completely.

 

What year would that catalogue have been?

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11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The Restaurant Car was Airfix, it's mentioned in the Ramsay's Guide. Mine came in what was virtually Airfix packaging. ISTR it's a RC.

 

 

The Bachmann LMS coaches were Mainline. That's where the history becomes complicated as Dapol were still selling old Mainline stock for years even though they didn't have the tooling.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The complication starts with the demise of Airfix, and the sale of the range to Palitoy who incorporated part of it into the Mainline range, before General Mills pulled the plug on their involvement in the toy market a few years later, at which point the Airfix tooling and Mainline stock (but not the tooling) went to Dapol.

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1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It certainly was complicated. I do remember that from my talk with David.

 

An RC would make more sense than a Restaurant Third as there was not a First Vestibule to go with it. I will have to dig mine out and check.

 

I think that those Vestibule 3rd's passed me by completely.

 

What year would that catalogue have been?

 

As you say, it really was complicated- especially when you bear in mind that some of the ex-Airfix, ex-Dapol stuff has ended up in Margate, and that's before you go into the travel of the ex-Mainline tooling to the Bachmann range via Replica and the odd court case...

 

The Airfix catalogue images are 1980, and can be found here: http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/ARScoachInd.htm

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Invicta said:

 

 

That's right, the Dapol Staniers and the 'Inter-District' non-corridors originated in the Airfix range, as did the 12-wheel dining car, although I don't think it ever materialised in Airfix guise, not actually reaching the shops until the range had passed (via Palitoy) to Dapol. The P1 brake and composite, plus the 50' full brake, all  originated with Mainline.

 

Thinking back it's quite impressive that the two manufacturers managed to avoid duplicating the same LMS coach design, even if we did get the inevitable combination of Composite and Brake 3rd for each. Throw in Lima's GUV, and the LMS modeller wasn't all that badly served for RTR coaching stock back then. On top of that, Replica Railways went on to offer the Stanier open 3rd- Was that another product that had it's origins at either Airfix/Mainline but never reached the market under their branding?

 

OK, they're not to modern standards, but compared with Hornby's 'toy' Staniers of the period (IIRC, a 60' composite compressed onto a standard 57' chassis with BR Mk1 bogies!), they were a massive step forward.

 

(catalogue image from airfixrailways.co.uk)

 

CoachesA.jpg

 

I've never seen an image of the open 3rd in Crimson and Cream. As far as I was aware they were only in LMS and BR Maroon.

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18 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

I've noticed that Rails tend to be a bit more wide-ranging with their packaging, and somewhat less standardised, than Hatton's. Whenever I've bought anything from Hatton's it's always arrived in a fairly standard box - typically, the long thin ones used for locos and wagons, but sometimes a larger, more rectangular one - and the box is always new. Rails seem to use whatever they have to hand, and don't mind reusing boxes - my Bachmann crane arrived in the box that Bachmann sent it to Rails in, but with the extra space (since I'd only ordered one) filled with foam packaging.

That is fascinating! Not once in my life have I ever received anything from Hattons in a new box! It has always been a cut down and taped together version of what had obviously been used before! They also used to arrive wrapped in brown paper tied with string!

Colin.

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3 minutes ago, cwam said:

That is fascinating! Not once in my life have I ever received anything from Hattons in a new box! It has always been a cut down and taped together version of what had obviously been used before! They also used to arrive wrapped in brown paper tied with string!

Colin.

 

How long ago did you last buy something from them?

 

I gave up buying stuff from them in the era you are talking about. So much stuff getting damaged in transit due to packaging that was not fit for use in the post.

 

Full marks to them for listening and improving. They just need now to stock a few more sizes of box.

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

As Southport says, the Dapol Staniers (and the 'Inter-District' non-corridors) originated in the Airfix range, as did the 12-wheel dining car, although I don't think it ever materialised in Airfix guise- Despite being in the Airfix catalogue for a couple of years, it didn't eventually reach the shops until the range had passed (via Palitoy) to Dapol.

Pat Hammond in Ramsays Model Trains comments the tools for the 12 wheel dining car were probably made by Mainline. It first appeared from Dapol in BR "red+cream" in 1985 with BR and LMS maroon versions following in  1986 and 1987 respectively and then LMS ones with a panelled livery in 1988. BR maroon ones are listed as being produced in 1998 after the tools had been sold to Hornby, bar seemingly the accurate chassis one which appears to be lost.

 

How long are people finding it takes to received the Cat+Mag from Key? I read elsewhere of someone receiving theirs after a couple of days (ordered mine a week ago)

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The Airfix Vestibule/Open third, so far as I am aware, never materialised, presumably not being sufficiently advanced to allow it to be revived unaltered like the Stanier stock that had been released. The Replica TO, as already stated, was never produced in BR Crimson/cream, but its origins lay more with Mainline, (the underframe and bogies match their P1 stock) rather than anything of Airfix heritage.

 

I have a couple in BR maroon, and I think Replica may also have produced an open third brake to a similar specification.    

 

John 

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5 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Pat Hammond in Ramsays Model Trains comments the tools for the 12 wheel dining car were probably made by Mainline. It first appeared from Dapol in BR "red+cream" in 1985 with BR and LMS maroon versions following in  1986 and 1987 respectively and then LMS ones with a panelled livery in 1988. BR maroon ones are listed as being produced in 1998 after the tools had been sold to Hornby, bar seemingly the accurate chassis one which appears to be lost.

 

How long are people finding it takes to received the Cat+Mag from Key? I read elsewhere of someone receiving theirs after a couple of days (ordered mine a week ago)

Having had a few apart, the tooling of the Restaurant car is very much in the Airfix style, and it seems to have by-passed appearing with Mainline branding. I suspect that development was incomplete at the time Airfix went down and Dapol finished it off.

 

The "good" chassis without the cutaways, AIUI, never made it to Hornby, the tool being lost in the Dapol fire.

 

John 

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2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

How long ago did you last buy something from them?

 

I gave up buying stuff from them in the era you are talking about. So much stuff getting damaged in transit due to packaging that was not fit for use in the post.

 

Full marks to them for listening and improving. They just need now to stock a few more sizes of box.

Now you come to mention it, I have been using Rails and eBay a lot in recent years; I am trying to gather stock for Penzance circa 2000 and there ain't much new stuff coming out that is relevant for that!

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1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

 

 

How long are people finding it takes to received the Cat+Mag from Key? I read elsewhere of someone receiving theirs after a couple of days (ordered mine a week ago)

 

They seemed to sell out of the bundle so they might have been waiting for new stock. It's back on the website and available to order again.

 

I also ordered the Airfix bundle and that took a couple of days. Not normally my thing but there was an article on Me 262s in the magazine.

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Having had a few apart, the tooling of the Restaurant car is very much in the Airfix style, and it seems to have by-passed appearing with Mainline branding. I suspect that development was incomplete at the time Airfix went down and Dapol finished it off.

After Palitoy acquired Airfix they continued to develop models "in the AIrfix style" which were not Kader products and consequently passed to Dapol and then Hornby, the 2P and 56 never featured in any listing of models Airfix intended to produce. Palitoy presumably saw advantages in not being wholly tied to Kader for the Mainline range

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Airfix Vestibule/Open third, so far as I am aware, never materialised, presumably not being sufficiently advanced to allow it to be revived unaltered like the Stanier stock that had been released. The Replica TO, as already stated, was never produced in BR Crimson/cream, but its origins lay more with Mainline, (the underframe and bogies match their P1 stock) rather than anything of Airfix heritage.

 

I have a couple in BR maroon, and I think Replica may also have produced an open third brake to a similar specification.    

Pat Hammond in British Model Trains catalogue comments the Replica Period 3 Vestibule 3rd had been planned by Airfix but not reached production. Godfrey Hayes of Replica redrew the roof and Kader made it.

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2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Airfix Vestibule/Open third, so far as I am aware, never materialised, presumably not being sufficiently advanced to allow it to be revived unaltered like the Stanier stock that had been released. The Replica TO, as already stated, was never produced in BR Crimson/cream, but its origins lay more with Mainline, (the underframe and bogies match their P1 stock) rather than anything of Airfix heritage.

 

I have a couple in BR maroon, and I think Replica may also have produced an open third brake to a similar specification.    

 

John 

 

I have never seen a Brake Third Open, of course I'm now frantically searching to find out if they did exist and where I can get one :help:

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2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Pat Hammond in British Model Trains catalogue comments the Replica Period 3 Vestibule 3rd had been planned by Airfix but not reached production. Godfrey Hayes of Replica redrew the roof and Kader made it.

Ive got a rake of these Replica Stanier open 3rds with a Dapol Brake, in LMS, it’s my “Railtour set”.

The BR version too sits well enough in the Hornby ones.

i’m surprised this tooling never made a comeback, with flush glazing and NEM.

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2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

I have never seen a Brake Third Open, of course I'm now frantically searching to find out if they did exist and where I can get one :help:

No such model has been made - Brake Corridor Thirds a plenty; Period 1 Mainline 1977- Replica-Bachmann, Period 3 Airfix 1978-Mainline-Dapol, Period 3 Hornby 2005

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The Comet range includes the all-steel Period 1 two-window vestibuled open brake third to D1746. Link to photo on the old Comet site, now availble from 51L/Wizard. There was a wood-panelled version, D1693, and four diagrams of Period 3 BTO: D1913 - also Comet, D1916, D1946, and D2008; of which D1946 was the most numerous - 70 vehicles.

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