stewartingram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 10 hours ago, The Johnster said: When I were a lad, and everything was still in black and white (colour was invented by the Beatles in 1963, as everyone knows), I always thought Tony Blackburn invented colour. I can still remember the first Radio Caroline broadcast he did in full colour! Stewart 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, stewartingram said: I always thought Tony Blackburn invented colour. I can still remember the first Radio Caroline broadcast he did in full colour! Stewart Definitely the 30s 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2020 37 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said: No such model has been made - Brake Corridor Thirds a plenty; Period 1 Mainline 1977- Replica-Bachmann, Period 3 Airfix 1978-Mainline-Dapol, Period 3 Hornby 2005 I've just found where I'd seen the BTO. It was a conversion of the Replica TO, described in Railway Modeller, July 2001. John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said: No such model has been made - Brake Corridor Thirds a plenty; Period 1 Mainline 1977- Replica-Bachmann, Period 3 Airfix 1978-Mainline-Dapol, Period 3 Hornby 2005 Yeah I was pretty confident that was the case but thanks! 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: The Comet range includes the all-steel Period 1 two-window vestibuled open brake third to D1746. Link to photo on the old Comet site, now availble from 51L/Wizard. There was a wood-panelled version, D1693, and four diagrams of Period 3 BTO: D1913 - also Comet, D1916, D1946, and D2008; of which D1946 was the most numerous - 70 vehicles. I dont quite have the stomach to tackle comet sides just yet but when I do I've got some donors already waiting to go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 21 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: The Airfix Vestibule/Open third, so far as I am aware, never materialised, presumably not being sufficiently advanced to allow it to be revived unaltered like the Stanier stock that had been released. The Replica TO, as already stated, was never produced in BR Crimson/cream, but its origins lay more with Mainline, (the underframe and bogies match their P1 stock) rather than anything of Airfix heritage. I have a couple in BR maroon, and I think Replica may also have produced an open third brake to a similar specification. John At risk of dragging the thread further into 'Hattons packaging and the history of Airfix & Mainline', I see what you mean- I had a look through my box of LMS coaches last night and compared the Replica TO I picked up secondhand last year with examples of Airfix Stanier and Mainline P1- As you say that underframe is 100% pure Mainline, and although it features Airfix-style soft plastic corridor connections and separately-fitted shell vents, the construction, with a one-piece bodyshell moulding, and recessed glazing rather than Airfix's moulded glazing strips that attempt but don't quite achieve flush glazing, it's much more Palitoy in style. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Invicta said: At risk of dragging the thread further into 'Hattons packaging and the history of Airfix & Mainline', I see what you mean- I had a look through my box of LMS coaches last night and compared the Replica TO I picked up secondhand last year with examples of Airfix Stanier and Mainline P1- As you say that underframe is 100% pure Mainline, and although it features Airfix-style soft plastic corridor connections and separately-fitted shell vents, the construction, with a one-piece bodyshell moulding, and recessed glazing rather than Airfix's moulded glazing strips that attempt but don't quite achieve flush glazing, it's much more Palitoy in style. That's because it was made by Kader who tooled it up using Replicas updating of the Airfix drawings so it was produced in their house style which UK modellers regarded as that largely used by Mainlne. A similar issue in reverse arose after Mainline acquired Airfix in that Kader updated the wagon chassis to feature brake blocks in line copying the Airfix wagon chassis. Dapol then also copied the wagon chassis and some bodies and with the subsequent acquisition of the non-Kader toolings from Palitoy had duplicate which is why today the same basic wagon can be found in two of the Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby ranges (there we go back on thread !) R6954 Hornby Burmah, 14T Tank wagon, No. 118 being Dapols copy of the Kader tooling. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said: That's because it was made by Kader who tooled it up using Replicas updating of the Airfix drawings so it was produced in their house style which UK modellers regarded as that largely used by Mainlne. A similar issue in reverse arose after Mainline acquired Airfix in that Kader updated the wagon chassis to feature brake blocks in line copying the Airfix wagon chassis. Dapol then also copied the wagon chassis and some bodies and with the subsequent acquisition of the non-Kader toolings from Palitoy had duplicate which is why today the same basic wagon can be found in two of the Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby ranges (there we go back on thread !) R6954 Hornby Burmah, 14T Tank wagon, No. 118 being Dapols copy of the Kader tooling. The whole saga had the makings of either an entire career or a recurring nightmare for a copyright lawyer which is, I suspect, why (AFAIK) none of the protagonists ever got as far as testing any of it in court. Eventually, it all seemed to find its own level to the (possibly unequal) satisfaction of all concerned. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2020 Hornby are stilling selling us Airfix auto trailers with brake blocks clawing useless at the air. They are in the correct place, of course, and it is the 16mm gauge wheels that are wrong, but, please, don't let's get into that again, I'm having a nice day... They are also knocking out shorty clerestories which are not only the wrong length but still feature incorrect B1 bogies with no brakes at all, 'stuck on the bottom' underframe (lack of) detail and no interiors, 1962 style. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorLard7 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I wonder if Hornby have a list of older toolings of models they need to upgrade and develop them to a point where they can get them out within a year of announcement if they sense competition, by holding a spare slot at the factory that they can fill with whatever they feel challenged on, or otherwise fill with something new if there is no competition and keep squeezing what they can out of the older tool until someone else tries something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 16:32, cwam said: Now you come to mention it, I have been using Rails and eBay a lot in recent years; I am trying to gather stock for Penzance circa 2000 and there ain't much new stuff coming out that is relevant for that! A man after my own heart- we do have the Virgin Mk2's coming from Bachmann eventually but across the board its a lot of blue/grey and current era stuff and not a huge amount between. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 hours ago, DoctorLard7 said: I wonder if Hornby have a list of older toolings of models they need to upgrade and develop them to a point where they can get them out within a year of announcement if they sense competition, by holding a spare slot at the factory that they can fill with whatever they feel challenged on, or otherwise fill with something new if there is no competition and keep squeezing what they can out of the older tool until someone else tries something. Probably not. There's been no upgrade to the shorty clerestories and accompanying Dean Single, or ex-Airfix auto trailer, for example, and one cannot point to a history of previous upgrading of amortised toolings. Hornby have had a Princess Elizabeth in the range since Rovex days but it has always been re-tooled, never upgraded. Smokey Joe and his chums got a new mech a few years ago, as did some of the Railroad 0-6-0s using the generic Jinty mech. In any case, as I understand it (and I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of injection moulding practice is less than encyclopedic), it is no easier, quicker, or cheaper to 'upgrade' toolings than it is to re-tool from scratch, which is the most desirable outcome IMHO for the likes of the 2721 or J83, or the auto trailer, anyway. Of course the price goes up, but so does the quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorLard7 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Probably not. There's been no upgrade to the shorty clerestories and accompanying Dean Single, or ex-Airfix auto trailer, for example, and one cannot point to a history of previous upgrading of amortised toolings. Hornby have had a Princess Elizabeth in the range since Rovex days but it has always been re-tooled, never upgraded. Smokey Joe and his chums got a new mech a few years ago, as did some of the Railroad 0-6-0s using the generic Jinty mech. In any case, as I understand it (and I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of injection moulding practice is less than encyclopedic), it is no easier, quicker, or cheaper to 'upgrade' toolings than it is to re-tool from scratch, which is the most desirable outcome IMHO for the likes of the 2721 or J83, or the auto trailer, anyway. Of course the price goes up, but so does the quality. I stuffed up my wording, i meant having entirely new CADs and plans etc ready to go to tooling in the locker that they can bring forward if someone else makes a move, i should have been clearer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, DoctorLard7 said: I stuffed up my wording, i meant having entirely new CADs and plans etc ready to go to tooling in the locker that they can bring forward if someone else makes a move, i should have been clearer. Don’t worry about it, Doc, I do the same thing all the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 hours ago, DoctorLard7 said: I stuffed up my wording, i meant having entirely new CADs and plans etc ready to go to tooling in the locker that they can bring forward if someone else makes a move, i should have been clearer. I guess their design staff are limited in size an are only able to plan a limited number of products at a time. Doing and then putting CAD stuff aside (and all the research that goes with it) - just in case - is an investment for which the return is seriously delayed while at the same reducing research/design time for items you actually intend to get out. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 18:11, JSpencer said: I guess their design staff are limited in size an are only able to plan a limited number of products at a time. Doing and then putting CAD stuff aside (and all the research that goes with it) - just in case - is an investment for which the return is seriously delayed while at the same reducing research/design time for items you actually intend to get out. Agreed, I don't find it credible that they will invest time and money in 'defensive' design work to sit on the shelf. Their financial position means they need profitable products now. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said: Agreed, I don't find it credible that they will invest time and money in 'defensive' design work to sit on the shelf. Their financial position means they need profitable products now. Quite so, but there will always be items in earlier stages of development for release in the year or two following the current programme. If somebody else announces any of them, they get the "hurry up" treatment, which is exactly what I think happened in the case of the Terriers, which feature widely discussed errors that I wouldn't normally expect Hornby to make. My guess is they were originally intended for 2020 release, which helps explain the lack of Southern items in this year's announcements. John Edited January 24, 2020 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 But the 5101 Prairies, aggressively announced after Dapol had committed to theirs, seem to be getting the ‘no rush, something or other will turn up sooner or later from somewhere or other somewhere or other’ treatment. Whatever else this is, consistent it isn’t! The 5101 is in a similar position to the Terrier in that it is a type previously marketed by H but inherited from another company, but SK commented on tv last year that the Terrier was ‘our’ model; not sure you could claim that in the same way you could for ‘Princess Elizabeth’. This was his justification for rushing the Terrier to beat Rails to the market. Why has he not done the same in this case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Johnster said: But the 5101 Prairies, aggressively announced after Dapol had committed to theirs, What was aggressive about the announcement? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: But the 5101 Prairies, aggressively announced after Dapol had committed to theirs, seem to be getting the ‘no rush, something or other will turn up sooner or later from somewhere or other somewhere or other’ treatment. Whatever else this is, consistent it isn’t! The 5101 is in a similar position to the Terrier in that it is a type previously marketed by H but inherited from another company, but SK commented on tv last year that the Terrier was ‘our’ model; not sure you could claim that in the same way you could for ‘Princess Elizabeth’. This was his justification for rushing the Terrier to beat Rails to the market. Why has he not done the same in this case? It seems clear from various sources that the 5101 delay is down to one or more events in China that were outside of Hornby's control. It's also likely (though not known for certain) that Dapol put their own Prairie on the back burner to prioritise the Mogul. If so, that is rather helpful for Hornby. If not (and it's perfectly possible that Dapol have maintained development of their 2-6-2Ts on the quiet), we may yet see the two arrive close together. My own hope is that, having been "warned off" by Hornby, Dapol will have been busy revising their plans in order to produce classes the Hornby tooling can't cover. That way everybody wins. John 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) Given the current health crisis in China, I should imagine that there will be more delays with product beyond the usual post New Year ones. Hey-ho. We'll just have to wait a bit longer, getting a model railway fix is not that important, is it.... Edited January 25, 2020 by Hroth I can't spell, I need more coffee... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 Should I check my 66 for the virus? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said: Should I check my 66 for the virus? There is no truth whatsoever that the virus is contracted by using old Corona pop bottles..... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: It seems clear from various sources that the 5101 delay is down to one or more events in China that were outside of Hornby's control... Quite and I would hope that the situation is so clear as to give no footing for any conspiracy theorists about 'what Hornby are up to with the large Prairie', or any other product come to that. 20 hours ago, ruggedpeak said: ...Their financial position means they need profitable products now. That's the fundamental position. Hornby are with a lender of last resort to stay afloat. Their only hope is to use the expensively borrowed money to make a ton of money by release of popular product which yields enough profit to repay. Their reaction to competition to models currently in their range - wherever they may have originated - is probably foremost on the basis of past performance in the market. Class 91, Terriers and large Prairies were presumably proven profitable sellers. Class 90, Dean goods, 3F, 4F, 4P, perhaps not so much? What business disruption is 'situation normal' in China is one obstacle they have to cope with already. Topped off with what may be a major public health crisis is all they need now. No time for cunning plans, just hard work... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: Should I check my 66 for the virus? Provided you don't take it out of the box or lick it if you do, you should be ok. I read that the virus probably can stay viable for around two weeks away from people so if your Shed left the PRC before the end of last year, you should be able to be as intimate with it as you like! 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Here is a link to the NHS advice of viruses, it seems that the time of the journey from China would make the virus inert. https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/ Hopefully/probably this will apply to Coronavirus too, as it is a respiratory virus. I am quite excited about the Hornby announcements, it seems quite ambitious, hopefully the UK market will be financially secure enough to support it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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