Hornby 2020 range announcements

[classy52]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Are you on about the horn grilles?

 

R2984 has them in black but R3366 has them in yellow.

 

Or are you on about the camera box thingys which are black on the fronts but left yellow on the model in both cases?

 

As per image below

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by classy52

[classy52]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Are they something that is particularly difficult to paint yourself?

 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't or I just don't want to correct a mistake on a brand new model and would like Hornby to get it right in the first place which really isn't too much to ask for what they are charging.

They got it half right on R2984 then wrong on R3366 for whatever internal quality control reason so why not just get it right this time.

Edited February 20, 2020 by classy52

['CHARD]

A marker pen will solve this heartache.

[TomScrut]

46 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't or I just don't want to correct a mistake on a brand new model and would like Hornby to get it right in the first place which really isn't too much to ask for what they are charging.

They got it half right on R2984 then wrong on R3366 for whatever internal quality control reason so why not just get it right this time.

 

The bigger problem (although harder to solve from Hornby's or a customer's point of view) is the lack of bumps above the windscreen

[classy52]

9 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

A marker pen will solve this heartache.

 

On a £260 product...no thanks.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 09:28, MarkSG said:

...The main problem with the early Victorian era was that development was so rapid that few locomotives lasted very long in service. And it's poorly documented, with not many preserved examples. So modelling it is always going to be difficult,

There is enough information however to make good looking models: no one living has seen them so little of the detail angst around contemporary items need be of concern. There's a significant operational difficulty though, and that's the 'wagon turntable' frequently used instead of points. For sure they can be modelled in situ, but making them work is another thing, and actually moving wagons on and off them accessing a siding, only by manual intervention.

 

On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 11:23, LB&SCR 337 said:

Oh a Jenny Lind engine would just be amazing. I need a RTR version in my life 

Even if the cost would be £130-40 ...

As above, expect a much higher price. The Stirling single gives an idea, and prices have escalated since; also remember that the NRM obtained insufficient orders to get both proposed versions produced.  Interestingly the version that didn't get sufficient orders to make the cut, was the one with the tender used when it has been seen running in living memory.

 

So perhaps there is a little angst about it looking as it did when running in normal revenue service. Definitely what I wanted, as seen in all the later photographs of them performing out on the racetrack: volcanic exhaust blowing flat back off the chimney, the large tender almost dwarfing the comparatively dainty loco...

[Butler Henderson]

4 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

On a £260 product...no thanks.

Maybe its not painted for the same reason the Model Rail Tram loco has a part the wrong colour and Dapol do not paint the buffer beams of the O gauge Sentinel - the cost of doing so would hike up the price of the model.

[classy52]

29 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Maybe its not painted for the same reason the Model Rail Tram loco has a part the wrong colour and Dapol do not paint the buffer beams of the O gauge Sentinel - the cost of doing so would hike up the price of the model.

 

I think we can safely assume the cost to Hornby for painting that would be zero considering the price already for a set that contains only one powered loco and for tooling that has been around for a while.

Edited February 21, 2020 by classy52

[MarkSG]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

There is enough information however to make good looking models: no one living has seen them so little of the detail angst around contemporary items need be of concern. There's a significant operational difficulty though, and that's the 'wagon turntable' frequently used instead of points. For sure they can be modelled in situ, but making them work is another thing, and actually moving wagons on and off them accessing a siding, only by manual intervention.

 

Not just wagon turntables, but horse shunting, hand shunting and capstan shunting. I've seen the latter modelled, but it's hard to do without the intervention of the Hand of God. That may be OK if you're also using three-link couplings and accept the unrealism of manually operating them in exchange for the much better realism of them on the model, but it's not going to work for everybody. And modelling horse shunting or hand shunting is going to be even harder.

 

Another issue with modelling the pioneering era is that many early railways used longitudinal (ladder) track rather than sleepers. So that's going to need scratchbuilding, as there's nothing  RTR that comes anywhere near it. And then there are stub points, no standard system of signals and a widely assorted array of individual and one-off rolling stock types. Anyone who can effectively model all of that can justifiably be proud of themselves. I'd love to see it done,  though.

[The Johnster]

Returning to Jenny Lind for a moment, parts for one are available as 3D prints, and you can build a fair representation, which is arguably all you need as they varied in detail quite a bit like most large classes of locos did in those days; there must have been variations between the Brighton and Midland locos as well.  You'd need wheels and I've no idea how you'd motorise the thing, or get enough ballast in to ensure decent pickup, and you'd have to paint it yourself but you can have one, LB&SC337!  Cost finished might be about the £150 mark.

 

In fact 3D prints are a source of quite a bit of period 1 stuff.  If this was ever done as RTR, I'd expect a complete range including baulk track and suitable 'signals', perhaps flagmen. If each vehicle was self propelled with it's own motor, the haulage of very small locos problem could be overcome and hand or capstan shunting off wagon/carriage turntables managed as well.  Horse shunting might be a bit more difficult but the situation is no worse than there being no steam issuing from plastic bodied locos of later periods; it depends on how much disbelief you can suspend.  I'm rambling a bit now, thinking aloud in print, but I reckon there is a potential market for models from this period, not just among 'proper' modellers but as train sets as well, on the basis that 'pretty' Victorian locos and stock sell on appearance.

[truffy]

2 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I reckon there is a potential market for models from this period, not just among 'proper' modellers but as train sets as well, on the basis that 'pretty' Victorian locos and stock sell on appearance.

 

Perhaps even more so as train sets, for the reason that you give and the chances that the less 'fastidious' are more likely to be pleased with the outcome.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

46 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

...Another issue with modelling the pioneering era is that many early railways used longitudinal (ladder) track rather than sleepers. So that's going to need scratchbuilding, as there's nothing  RTR that comes anywhere near it. And then there are stub points...

Just considering the track aspect in isolation, there is one simplification in that common practise was to ballast to the foot of the rail, largely concealing the support and chairs. And yes, all the above does suggest that either scratchbuilding, or a dedicated RTR system (more entry expense) would really be required.

 

Best I have seen done on any scale was the Stockton and Darlington layout in P4 for the 150th anniversary of that line's opening, all scratchbuilt of course. It had to be true scale, or the inside bearing chaldron wagons wouldn't have looked right. Those that built this lovely display couldn't quite bring themselves to file the pinpoints off the wagon axle ends...

 

If it could be done commercially I suspect the best path would be HO rather than 4mm. The locos and stock will look right, and will also run on inappropriate 'current' 16.5mm gauge HO and OO track, thus having the broadest possible customer appeal. The early stuff is all 'small' so the eye should accept it against OO.

[The Johnster]

Exactly.  Let's be honest, from a modern perspective, period one trains look like toys to start with (mostly, anyone who has been on the footplate of the replica Iron Duke will attest to it's noticeable lack of toylikeness; the thing's an utter beast!), more akin to a child's perception of what a train looks like.  Easy to put on the track as well; no bogies or ponies in rigid frames.

Edited February 21, 2020 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Exactly.  Let's be honest, from a modern perspective, period one trains look like toys to start with (mostly, anyone who has been on the footplate of the replica Iron Duke will attest to it's noticeable lack of toylikeness; the thing's an utter beast!), more akin to a child's perception of what a train looks like.  Easy to put on the track as well; no bogies or ponies in rigid frames.

 

The boiler on the Iron Duke is the same as an 18" Hunslet Austerity. One of these went to make the replica. 

[Oldddudders]

12 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

On a £260 product...no thanks.

Fine. You just saved yourself £260. 

[pH]

22 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Fine. You just saved yourself £260. 

 

... on a 16.5mm gauge, 4mm to the foot, model.

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Exactly.  Let's be honest, from a modern perspective, period one trains look like toys to start with (mostly, anyone who has been on the footplate of the replica Iron Duke will attest to it's noticeable lack of toylikeness; the thing's an utter beast!), more akin to a child's perception of what a train looks like.  Easy to put on the track as well; no bogies or ponies in rigid frames.

And absolutely ideal for the sort of dead straight layout built to no commercial scale/gauge that's so popular in the hobby.

 

Personally, I'd think the real market for the volumes such models would be likely to sell in is 7mm scale. Most will live in display cases/cabinets anyway and the bigger scale would have a presence that (standard gauge) early/mid-Victorian locos in 4mm scale could never achieve.

 

John

Edited February 21, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

28 minutes ago, pH said:

 

... on a 16.5mm gauge, 4mm to the foot, model.

and your point is?

 

[pH]

Just thinking about the hierarchy of inaccuracies/compromises involved.

[Dunsignalling]

35 minutes ago, pH said:

Just thinking about the hierarchy of inaccuracies/compromises involved.

If you want better, it shouldn't take much above half an hour to swap out the eight wheelsets for P4.

 

OO is just a fact of life with UK outline r-t-r. One has to choose to live with it, convert it, or abandon it.

 

Same goes for the yellow box on the end of the item in question. It'll take a modeller longer to stir the paint than sort it out. A collector will have a melt down over potentially knocking twenty quid off the resale value.

 

John

[Jack P]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If you want better, it shouldn't take much above half an hour to swap out the eight wheelsets for P4.

 

OO is just a fact of life with UK outline r-t-r. One has to choose to live with it, convert it, or abandon it.

 

Same goes for the yellow box on the end of the item in question. It'll take a modeller longer to stir the paint than sort it out. A collector will have a melt down over potentially knocking twenty quid off the resale value.

 

John

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how unwilling some people are to modify/tweak/customize locos, even in the smallest, easiest, most insignificant of ways. 

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how unwilling some people are to modify/tweak/customize locos, even in the smallest, easiest, most insignificant of ways. 

 

The reason I try not to is to maintain residual value in case I decide to move it on.

[Robin Brasher]

I used to enjoy repainting Tri-ang Hornby green open goods wagons SR brown but then the wagons only cost about 20p each . When a firm produces an LSWR and SR brake van in the wrong colour, ignores constructive criticism and then reissues the van this year in the same colour with a different running number and charges over £20 I am less willing to customise it.

 

If I ever have to sell the brake vans the slightest modification will ruin its residual value.

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

The reason I try not to is to maintain residual value in case I decide to move it on.

 

We will all move on one day. I the meantime the model is mine to enjoy, including any modifications I might make.

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

 

If I ever have to sell the brake vans the slightest modification will ruin its residual value.

 

Why the hang up on the resale/residual value?  Surely these models are purchased to enjoy our hobby of model railways.

 

Buying and selling things is a different hobby.  (For some its a business.)

[Dunsignalling]

I don't especially care about "residual value" as I keep 99% of what I buy. Its eventual worth will only be relevant to my heirs and, for them, what it cost when I bought it is neither here nor there. In reality, the values of very few models appreciate significantly over one generation and most of what we leave behind is as likely to be considered an inconvenience as a gold mine!

 

My modelling/collecting follows established paths and I don't flip-flop between prototype railways or eras, though I can see why those who will be bothered about partially financing the next project from the current one when they lose interest in it.

 

For me, the money has been spent, the model is customised to my needs/tastes, and enjoyment is derived from using it. 

 

John  

Edited February 22, 2020 by Dunsignalling