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Hornby 2020 range announcements


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1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

The reason I try not to is to maintain residual value in case I decide to move it on.

 

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

I used to enjoy repainting Tri-ang Hornby green open goods wagons SR brown but then the wagons only cost about 20p each . When a firm produces an LSWR and SR brake van in the wrong colour, ignores constructive criticism and then reissues the van this year in the same colour with a different running number and charges over £20 I am less willing to customise it.

 

If I ever have to sell the brake vans the slightest modification will ruin its residual value.

 

A model is only worth an amount at a specific time.  It depends on what someone is willing to pay.  You could sell 2 identical items 5 minutes apart and get wildly different values.  I've seen mint boxed items go for less that well used versions of the exact same model

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20 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

I think we can safely assume the cost to Hornby for painting that would be zero considering the price already for a set that contains only one powered loco and for tooling that has been around for a while.

 

Because the cost of the spray mask would be nil and the person who does the painting should be paid? And paint is free of course.

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You are all missing the big picture here and basically living in the past where the most expensive models cost under a £100 so you had no issues making your own corrections or modifications when the manufacturer stuffed it up or were just plain lazy to make it right because they took you for mugs and still do today .

Sweeping all this under the rug doesn't help and it certainly doesn't push Hornby to be bothered to improve their products which I would really love to see but you are all ok with their loco's 8PIN decoder setups, plastic pantographs, poor lighting options, unrefined chassis's where you can't even fit a decoder let alone a decent speaker and you still pay over the odds for all this.

You seem to have forgotten the HST loco pack has only one powered car and the tooling has probably paid itself and yet you see no issue paying £260 for it even with livery or paint errors so it is easy to ridicule people when these errors are pointed out due to some blind loyalty to a model toy company, so no I don't buy it that I should manually correct the paint on a £260 product and these errors need to be continually highlighted so improvements are made because yes at these prices I want simple things fixed and not ignored.

I have pm'd Hornby directly to highlight this NR HST paint issue so it will interesting to see what comes out of this or if I get a reply, my pre-order has been cancelled and if nothing is improved at this price then I simply won't buy it and my money will go to others who actually give a damn about detail and refinement.

 

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20 hours ago, MarkSG said:

Another issue with modelling the pioneering era is that many early railways used longitudinal (ladder) track rather than sleepers. So that's going to need scratchbuilding, as there's nothing  RTR that comes anywhere near it. And then there are stub points, no standard system of signals and a widely assorted array of individual and one-off rolling stock types. Anyone who can effectively model all of that can justifiably be proud of themselves. I'd love to see it done,  though.

 

An excellent resource for anyone interested in this subject it Early Railways: A Guide for the modeller by Stephen Weston

 

If you fancy some modelling, then his Parliamentary Trains range is well worth a look. I've built a couple of them and they are very well designed.

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4 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Because the cost of the spray mask would be nil and the person who does the painting should be paid? And paint is free of course.

 

Oh come on Phil you are reaching on this one, being on a production line the cost would be negligible and considering the cost of the product in the first place I'm sure Hornby can make this correction without bumping up the price which would ridiculous in itself.

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Just now, classy52 said:

 

Oh come on Phil you are reaching on this one, being on a production line the cost would be negligible and considering the cost of the product in the first place I'm sure Hornby can make this correction without bumping up the price which would ridiculous in itself.

 

You said "I think we can safely assume the cost to Hornby for painting that would be zero" - NOT that they would absorb the cost to the end consumer. This is a very different thing.

 

5 minutes ago, classy52 said:

You are all missing the big picture here and basically living in the past where the most expensive models cost under a £100 so you had no issues making your own corrections or modifications when the manufacturer stuffed it up or were just plain lazy to make it right because they took you for mugs and still do today .

Sweeping all this under the rug doesn't help and it certainly doesn't push Hornby to be bothered to improve their products which I would really love to see but you are all ok with their loco's 8PIN decoder setups, plastic pantographs, poor lighting options, unrefined chassis's where you can't even fit a decoder let alone a decent speaker and you still pay over the odds for all this.

You seem to have forgotten the HST loco pack has only one powered car and the tooling has probably paid itself and yet you see no issue paying £260 for it even with livery or paint errors so it is easy to ridicule people when these errors are pointed out due to some blind loyalty to a model toy company, so no I don't buy it that I should manually correct the paint on a £260 product and these errors need to be continually highlighted so improvements are made because yes at these prices I want simple things fixed and not ignored.

 

I'd be interested to see you put a figure on the point at which it no longer becomes possible to modify a model. From your postings, it's somewhere between £100 and £260 but that's a wide margin.

 

Essentially if you want a model of this train, you options are:

A) Buy a Hornby model and paint the grille if it bothers you.

B) Scratchbuild.

 

Option A costs £260. Option B is much harder work. Which you go for is down to the individual. Personally, I don't want any pristine RTR but that's just me. I don't care about residual value, I care about enjoying the model as much as I can now. Everyone is different though. Ultimately, it's down to the buyer. These are discretionary purchases so we get to vote with our wallets. Don't like it, don't buy it. Maybe they will then be sold off at a loss and the price dip below that threshold where tinkering is permitted.

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5 minutes ago, classy52 said:

You are all missing the big picture here and basically living in the past where the most expensive models cost under a £100 so you had no issues making your own corrections or modifications when the manufacturer stuffed it up or were just plain lazy to make it right because they took you for mugs and still do today .

Sweeping all this under the rug doesn't help and it certainly doesn't push Hornby to be bothered to improve their products which I would really love to see but you are all ok with their loco's 8PIN decoder setups, plastic pantographs, poor lighting options, unrefined chassis's where you can't even fit a decoder let alone a decent speaker and you still pay over the odds for all this.

You seem to have forgotten the HST loco pack has only one powered car and the tooling has probably paid itself and yet you see no issue paying £260 for it even with livery or paint errors so it is easy to ridicule people when these errors are pointed out due to some blind loyalty to a model toy company, so no I don't buy it that I should manually correct the paint on a £260 product and these errors need to be continually highlighted so improvements are made because yes at these prices I want simple things fixed and not ignored.

I have pm'd Hornby directly to highlight this NR HST paint issue so it will interesting to see what comes out of this or if I get a reply, my pre-order has been cancelled and if nothing is improved at this price then I simply won't buy it and my money will go to others who actually give a damn about detail and refinement.

 

I think you need to go lie down in a dark room.  Its only a toy train.  If you aren't happy with it, don't buy it, simple.

 

These days the difference between modellers and enthusiasts seem to be coming to the fore.  Im not slating anyone at all as everyone has their own take on the hobby, and doesn't make anyone better than the other, but a modeller will correct any small issue whilst preparing the model for further detailing, weathering etc etc.  An enthusiast will be happy with the model as it comes and use it with no modifications at all.

 

Price is subjective, £260 for these NR power cars does seem expensive at first glance, but if you really want one, and have/will have detailed, accurate stock (rather then the generic yellow painted Hornby mk3's), then the cost may be justified.  Mind you if you do have or are planning to have a set of fully accurate coaches to hang between them, then you wont mind correcting the odd issue, if you feel the cost is justified.

 

18 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Because the cost of the spray mask would be nil and the person who does the painting should be paid? And paint is free of course.

 

Exactly Phil, every change to a production process has a fee, masks have to be made and prepared, requisite amount of paint/inks have to be procured and a slot on the tampo has to be found.  These costs have to be passed somewhere, ultimately to you and me, the customer.


Should they have got it right first time, yes, they should have, but its not as serious as the wrong shade of yellow, or network rail logo's printed upside down etc etc

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1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You said "I think we can safely assume the cost to Hornby for painting that would be zero" - NOT that they would absorb the cost to the end consumer. This is a very different thing.

 

 

I'd be interested to see you put a figure on the point at which it no longer becomes possible to modify a model. From your postings, it's somewhere between £100 and £260 but that's a wide margin.

 

Essentially if you want a model of this train, you options are:

A) Buy a Hornby model and paint the grille if it bothers you.

B) Scratchbuild.

 

Option A costs £260. Option B is much harder work. Which you go for is down to the individual. Personally, I don't want any pristine RTR but that's just me. I don't care about residual value, I care about enjoying the model as much as I can now. Everyone is different though. Ultimately, it's down to the buyer. These are discretionary purchases so we get to vote with our wallets. Don't like it, don't buy it. Maybe they will then be sold off at a loss and the price dip below that threshold where tinkering is permitted.

 

But you all seem to be missing the point still.

I want Hornby to progress and advance in their chassis tooling, livery, paint and features but when highlighting an issue and then getting railed on it doesn't help in getting model train makers to improve their products because they will still churn out the errors or whatever thus it is accepted and yes it goes back to price because as you can see the HST Pack has shot up in price in the last couple of years but there is still a lack to attention to detail or it does improve in one area but lacks in another.

What I find amazing Hornby go ahead and put on the latest stickers on the NR HST model to reflect current day running but don't do anything about the colour of the horn grill and camera box at the ends.

Yes true the product is just a want and people can vote with their wallet which I have currently done by cancelling my pre-order, if Hornby do correct it then I will reinstate my order because at this price it's the principle of the matter and something simple like this issue should be done at source.

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4 minutes ago, Half-full said:

I think you need to go lie down in a dark room.  Its only a toy train.  If you aren't happy with it, don't buy it, simple.

 

These days the difference between modellers and enthusiasts seem to be coming to the fore.  Im not slating anyone at all as everyone has their own take on the hobby, and doesn't make anyone better than the other, but a modeller will correct any small issue whilst preparing the model for further detailing, weathering etc etc.  An enthusiast will be happy with the model as it comes and use it with no modifications at all.

 

Price is subjective, £260 for these NR power cars does seem expensive at first glance, but if you really want one, and have/will have detailed, accurate stock (rather then the generic yellow painted Hornby mk3's), then the cost may be justified.  Mind you if you do have or are planning to have a set of fully accurate coaches to hang between them, then you wont mind correcting the odd issue, if you feel the cost is justified.

 

 

Exactly Phil, every change to a production process has a fee, masks have to be made and prepared, requisite amount of paint/inks have to be procured and a slot on the tampo has to be found.  These costs have to be passed somewhere, ultimately to you and me, the customer.


Should they have got it right first time, yes, they should have, but its not as serious as the wrong shade of yellow, or network rail logo's printed upside down etc etc

 

Yeah yeah read my posts properly before commenting and really your first sentence isn't necessary but you do get that a lot in these threads, btw there is only 1 powered car in the set so that let that sink in.

The mob mentality never ceases to amaze me here especially when critiquing Hornby products...

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12 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 

Yeah yeah read my posts properly before commenting and really your first sentence isn't necessary but you do get that a lot in these threads, btw there is only 1 powered car in the set so that let that sink in.

The mob mentality never ceases to amaze me here especially when critiquing Hornby products...

Yes it is mob mentality, mob mentality with people constantly bleating on about prices, you have 4 choices...

 

Buy it and be happy with it

Buy it, modify it and be happy with it

Dont buy it it and modify an older HST power car set to represent the livery/details you want

Dont buy it and do without

 

Answer me this, what stock would you run it with if you were buying it?

 

Im not white-knighting Hornby, I take the same view with every manufacturer.

 

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O dear.  I've been an' gorn an' dunnit now, 'avn't I?  I was only asking if the thing was particularly difficult to paint, and have prised open the lid on the 'pristine vs weathered/adapted/altered' debate.  Personally, I would have to confess that none of my RTR stuff is exactly as it was when it first came out of it's box, having at the very least a light splash of weathering to tone it down a bit, and at the other end of the spectrum being hacked to destruction and made into something else entirely.  I have thus destroyed the resale value of my stock.  

 

That's fine; I do not intend to sell any of it, ever.  It's mine, bought to satisfy my own requirements and the money written off.  I do not consider it makes me a better modeller than the OOTB people, though it enables me to produce the sort of layout I want; it's a matter of personal choice and I brook no condemnation of it from others.  Similarly, I have no business imposing my views on others, and try not to.  If I state my views, it is only to interest, and I have no desire to influence.

 

It is irritating when manufacturers get things wrong, especially if errors that can easily be rectified on the production line are persisted in with new releases of old toolings, but if it's something I can easily correct myself I don't let it worry me.  What does grind my gears is dimensional errors that I cannot do anything about and mouldings that are difficult to replace with proper detail, a prime example being Hornby's incorrect 10' wheelbase 16ton mineral, and another being some of Dapol's older wagons with moulded handbrake levers.  But I managed to build my mineral fleet before Bachmanns' 16tonners went silly-price, and have supplemented it with Parksides for half the price.

 

Model railway layouts are places where we get to be god of our little universes; my advice FWIW is to find a way of having them that satisfies you and carry on with no regard to other peoples' opinions, especially mine.  If you want to ask questions to improve your layout, fine, but if you are happy with the way things are on it, that's fine as well.  RTR is what it is, not perfect but by and large very good if it's a recent tooling.  Improvements to it are done on the basis of cost benefit analysis and market research, and are the decision of the company whatever we think.

 

Chillax, dudes (and dudesses), it's a hobby.  HAVE FUN!!!

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25 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Yes it is mob mentality, mob mentality with people constantly bleating on about prices, you have 4 choices...

Yes agree with people going on about prices all the time but my point is correcting an issue in a product which I feel has reached the tipping point as far as price is concerned, any higher without being near spot on will have ramifications on sales in my opinion or they may not.

 

Buy it and be happy with it - agree

Buy it, modify it and be happy with it - agree

Dont buy it it and modify an older HST power car set to represent the livery/details you want - if you have the skill level or one laying around.

Dont buy it and do without - yes can live with that, like I said earlier it's just a want and yes I would like it but a bit more prototypical at this price.

 

Answer me this, what stock would you run it with if you were buying it?

NR Mk3 stock, the 3 recently released and the 2 coming out this year.

Granted they are not spot on as I've read on RMWeb but some modelers on here get a free pass when highlighting errors or issues with Hornby coaches and everyone nod their heads in agreement.

I don't expect anyone to agree or like my comments but there seems to be an aversion to critiquing certain products from certain manufacturers, to me loyalty comes into it.

 

Im not white-knighting Hornby, I take the same view with every manufacturer.

As do I...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

I used to enjoy repainting Tri-ang Hornby green open goods wagons SR brown but then the wagons only cost about 20p each . When a firm produces an LSWR and SR brake van in the wrong colour, ignores constructive criticism and then reissues the van this year in the same colour with a different running number and charges over £20 I am less willing to customise it.

 

If I ever have to sell the brake vans the slightest modification will ruin its residual value.

 

 

My question to you; in this instance, given that as you've (correctly noted!) the vans are in the wrong colour, what do you think the resale value will actually look like, especially if Hornby end up releasing Vans that are the right colour?

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Well I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again .

 

correcting factory errors doesn’t make you a “ modeller “, anymore than installing a missing wing mirror makes you a formula one driver .

 

i expect the starting point to be correct for further mods, weathering etc.

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38 minutes ago, classy52 said:

I want Hornby to progress and advance in their chassis tooling, livery, paint and features but when highlighting an issue and then getting railed on it doesn't help in getting model train makers to improve their products because they will still churn out the errors or whatever thus it is accepted and yes it goes back to price because as you can see the HST Pack has shot up in price in the last couple of years but there is still a lack to attention to detail or it does improve in one area but lacks in another.

 

You want to see RTR improve. Others would prefer lower. It's all down to personal opinion. That's why you are seeing people disagree with you.

 

Every RTR model is a compromise. Every one. Choosing where to compromise is the challenge for the manufacturer. They are the ones taking the risk financially and have to weigh up many variable. We only have to decide if a model is good enough for us to hand over cash.

 

We could easily fill this forum with abuse hurled at manufacturers. Many smaller forums are precisely that and the members enjoy the "sport". Here, we try for a more balanced and hopefully realistic view. The error has been pointed out. It's up to modellers to decide what they would like to do about it.

 

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4 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Well I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again .

 

correcting factory errors doesn’t make you a “ modeller “, anymore than installing a missing wing mirror makes you a formula one driver .

 

i expect the starting point to be correct for further mods, weathering etc.

 

Replacing a wing mirror doesn't make you a F1 driver, it does make you a car mechanic.

 

Correcting factory errors teaches you useful hand-eye coordination and how to operate tools. Isn't that modelling?

 

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21 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

I think we can safely assume the cost to Hornby for painting that would be zero considering the price already for a set that contains only one powered loco and for tooling that has been around for a while.

 

Yea Gods. Are you running a full length train over hill and dale?  If so, a little bit of actual modelling will solve this...

 

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18 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You want to see RTR improve. Others would prefer lower. It's all down to personal opinion. That's why you are seeing people disagree with you.

Doesn't everyone want that especially in the higher priced bracket?

Those who want lower are catered for with cheaper models i.e. Railroad

People respectfully disagreeing or telling me to put up or shut up or posting veiled insults are entirely two different things yet I'm the bad guy for critiquing and it all gets blown out of proportion as always the case in forums.

 

Every RTR model is a compromise. Every one. Choosing where to compromise is the challenge for the manufacturer. They are the ones taking the risk financially and have to weigh up many variable. We only have to decide if a model is good enough for us to hand over cash.

Totally agree.

 

We could easily fill this forum with abuse hurled at manufacturers. Many smaller forums are precisely that and the members enjoy the "sport". Here, we try for a more balanced and hopefully realistic view. The error has been pointed out. It's up to modellers to decide what they would like to do about it.

I don't see any abuse hurled at manufacturers in this case and yes seen it elsewhere on RMWeb which the moderators have rightly dealt with it.

Yes agree it's up to modelers to do what they want with new products they purchase and there are those who would like to see corrections at source.

 

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7 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 Solve what exactly...what's your point?

 

I thought that you were complaining that with only one motorised power car it would have insufficient haulage power on your layout. 

 

Having since read read on from that post to the current end of the thread I realise that your comments were different 

 

So I apologise for upsetting your feelings

 

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It was sort of requested a couple of years back when Hornby produced their (then) latest incarnation of BR (SR) Mk 1 stock, that future releases not to wear the BR emblem on all these green liveried vehicles. Judging by the artwork on retailers' websites, Hornby look to be continuing this trend with their 2020 releases. For people who wish certain vehicles to carry this emblem it is far easier to affix one than it is for those not requiring it to remove the blasted thing!

 

In addition, the illustrations depict all Hornby Mk1 BSKs continuing to have the LH battery box located behind the guard's footsteps. This also has been mentioned before; not the end of the world, but considering the number of BSKs that are generally required, a separate underframe tooling nowadays for these coaches would have been worth the cost.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Right Away said:

It was sort of requested a couple of years back when Hornby produced their (then) latest incarnation of BR (SR) Mk 1 stock, that future releases not to wear the BR emblem on all these green liveried vehicles. Judging by the artwork on retailers' websites, Hornby look to be continuing this trend with their 2020 releases. For people who wish certain vehicles to carry this emblem it is far easier to affix one than it is for those not requiring it to remove the blasted thing!

 

In addition, the illustrations depict all Hornby Mk1 BSKs continuing to have the LH battery box located behind the guard's footsteps. This also has been mentioned before; not the end of the world, but considering the number of BSKs that are generally required, a separate underframe tooling nowadays for these coaches would have been worth the cost.

 

 

On the subject of Southern MK1's I have suggested to both Bachmann and Hornby that a 3 car set

complete with set numbers on the BSK's and correct coach numbers for a particular set, might be

a boost to sales as three coaches would need to be purchased.

This certainly worked on me when I purchased a three car set of Blood and Custard Maunsells.

I was only after an example of a 4 compartment BTK, but on seeing it was part of a numbered set

I just had to track down the CK and the other BTK.

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1 hour ago, classy52 said:

Answer me this, what stock would you run it with if you were buying it?

NR Mk3 stock, the 3 recently released and the 2 coming out this year.

Granted they are not spot on

 

So, correct me if Im wrong, you would run coaches that you know are incorrect,  5 of them which is about £150-£200 worth, but you are getting upset over a very small unpainted part on the power cars to haul them?  You want the pc's to be 100% accurate but not the rolling stock?

 

You're happy to pay £30-40 per coach for an old tooling, which you know is wrong, but are not happy to pay £260 for the associated PC's, which have the correct details  AFAIK, because they have a tiny paint error?

 

I dont understand that, but maybe thats just me.

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Replacing a wing mirror doesn't make you a F1 driver, it does make you a car mechanic.

 

Correcting factory errors teaches you useful hand-eye coordination and how to operate tools. Isn't that modelling?

 

Dear manufacturers ,

Don’t bother soldering the PCB because I need to practice my soldering...

 

I’m sorry Phil , that level of strange logic , leaves me almost speechless 

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Caring about the residual value of something and, at the same time, caring about accuracy in minute detail are somewhat contradictory.


If you're a collector, rather than a hobbyist, and want to maintain your models in pristine condition so that you can possibly re-sell them later, then obviously you aren't going to want to modify them. But then again, the inaccuracies that you are aware of aren't going to affect the resale value either. So they don't really matter. Some early Triang and Hornby Dublo stuff is now worth a fair wedge in the collector market, if it's in good enough condition, but from a modelling perspective it's a lot less accurate than contemporary models. In ten or twenty years time, the eBay value of the yellow HST isn't going to be affected one jot by a slight inaccuracy in the paintwork on the nose. It will be affected by the condition of the model and the demand for it.

 

If you're buying a model to use on a layout, though, then the resale value is broadly irrelevant, because even using it is going to reduce the resale value. In which case, you may as well spend a little effort making it look how you want it, rather than how it came out of the box, if the out of the box condition isn't entirely to your liking.

 

I am wary of being too gung-ho with weathering and modifying things I buy, but that's not so much because I care about the possible loss of value when selling it but because I care about the replacement cost if I screw up! With some limited editions, or popular models that are now out of production, then there's also a risk that if I break the one I've got then I might not be able to find a replacement at all. But if I get it right, the value of the model, to me, has increased, because it looks closer to what I want it to look like. And I don't feel obliged to correct every possible inaccuracy anyway. I'm already compromising by using OO gauge instead of P4, and I'm perfectly happy with a model that, pretty much, looks right even if I know it isn't necessarily precisely correct in every single way. I also do things like run a model that, in real life, may not have run in the setting that I'm modelling, because I can't be bothered to renumber it to one that would have. It is, after all, my railway, and Rule 1 applies.

 

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