Hornby 2020 range announcements

[TomScrut]

42 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It does amuse me that self denial and lack of awareness can coexist hand in hand...

I refer to Bachmanns 97201 Experiment class 24... it too was rarest of the rare, must have, pay premium, you wont lose...

 

Yet in 2020 people still ask £165-180 for it on ebay, and some success too...

 

despite the SLW Experiment class 24 being £185 new, insanely more detailed and available in stock.

 

I find it also interesting that Vitrains 47’s are commanding more than Bachmann 47’s too... I guess the Heljan effect seems to have knocked Bachmann 47 demand, but thats not trickled to viTrains 47’s yet, unlike though 37’s it definitely has..knocked prices.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Yeah that is pretty much the opposite of what I am on about. But on the same note as you there are examples of stuff for sale on eBay at RRP or more when a bit of searching online will find them discounted at retailers. The mind boggles

Edited February 23, 2020 by TomScrut

[Butler Henderson]

Some time back now models which had been "detailed" typically sold for more than the mint second hand ones; then people started buying them to keep in the boxes rather than actually running them and prices went silly. Have heard of some collectors who never open the box so quite how they know what it says on the box end is actually in it I do not know in cases where a card insert covers the model and quite what resale value it has if its found to be faulty on its first run in how many decades time.

[Butler Henderson]

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

Yeah that is pretty much the opposite of what I am on about. But on the same note as you there are examples of stuff for sale on eBay at RRP or more when a bit of searching online will find them discounted at retailers. The mind boggles

Bear in mind the ebay and paypal charges - take the Bachmann Club J72 Joem, someone putting that on ebay is going to have to charge around £14 more than it cost to break even.

[Guest Half-full]

6 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Bear in mind the ebay and paypal charges - take the Bachmann Club J72 Joem, someone putting that on ebay is going to have to charge around £14 more than it cost to break even.

Unless they use the £1 max seller fees!  Seems more and more people are using that offer when it comes up

[Butler Henderson]

4 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Unless they use the £1 max seller fees!  Seems more and more people are using that offer when it comes up

That's only the ebay fee, still the paypal charges to pay.

[Guest Half-full]

1 minute ago, Butler Henderson said:

That's only the ebay fee, still the paypal charges to pay.

It includes the PayPal fees too, etiher that or PayPal are not charging me!

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I must be missing something.

 

I suspect that one of the things you're missing is that, in the collector market, rarity is an important aspect of the price. In some respects, particularly for people who focus their collecting on a particular subset of the market, it's far more important than any objective quality of the model. After all, people collect old Triang and Hornby Dublo models that we would consider far too coarse and undetailed to run on our layouts.

 

The manufacturers know this, of course, and that's why slapping a "limited edition" label on an otherwise pretty bog standard model can significantly increase its value in that respect. A really good example of that is the Bachmann Blue Pullman - normal edition, what was it, around £250, special "Collectors Edition" double that. Exactly the same model, the only difference is the packaging. Hornby have pulled the same trick with the Rocket train pack, although in this case the differential is a lot less.

 

More specifically, though, as far as the "Experiment" livery class 24 is concerned, I suspect that a lot of people simply aren't aware of the SLW version. It isn't a recognised brand, and it can only be bought new direct from their own website. Unless you read the modelling magazines, or relevant threads on places like RMweb, you're unlikely to have heard of it and, even if you do come across it (eg, in a second hand listing on eBay) you'll have no idea how good it is. The Bachmann version is a much "safer" option if you don't know enough about them to make an informed choice.

[TomScrut]

56 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Unless they use the £1 max seller fees!  Seems more and more people are using that offer when it comes up

 

That's what I do. Still 3 odd percent on PayPal but only £1 on the listing

[TomScrut]

52 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

That's only the ebay fee, still the paypal charges to pay.

 

The % you need to overcharge drops significantly though when you take eBay's 10% out of the equation

[stovepipe]

I can't be bothered to read it all, but the last few pages are RMWeb at it's worst, with the usual pile-on by the usual suspects to someone who just wants an unreleased model to be accurate in a certain way. Something that Accurascale for instance would be (rightly) praised for seeking to bring to market. But when it is Hornby, the free passes are issued left right and centre. In my view there is plenty Hornby could do better, but they are complacent in certain respects (especially in the D&E area), and have been in the past too, not improving quality until they more or less had to. But why would they when there are so many keen to say sloppy is ok, we'll correct it ourselves, and by the way anyone who doesnt want to, isn't a 'proper' modeller. After the punishment beating, people are hardly going to want to share what they've done here, are they?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by stovepipe
grammar

[Oldddudders]

50 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

I can't be bothered to read it all, but the last few pages are RMWeb at it's worst, with the usual pile-on by the usual suspects to someone who just wants an unreleased model to be accurate in a certain way. 

But why is it being posted on RMweb in the first place? I get very bored with members using this forum to try to beat a supplier, service or shop over the head. Quite often the 'member' has virtually no posting history, either. 

 

In this case the complaint seems to be about a detail that has not been painted correctly. I have a number of models which, before I bought them, I knew were inaccurate in some respect, but still chose to cough up. As I pointed out, by not buying, he has saved £260. If he knows of a better, more accurate model of this version, then let him buy that instead. I felt, when making my buying decisions, that I was unlikely to find a better model this side of the grave, so up I stumped. That decision did not require me to air my trivia on a forum. 

[stovepipe]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

But why is it being posted on RMweb in the first place? I get very bored with members using this forum to try to beat a supplier, service or shop over the head. Quite often the 'member' has virtually no posting history, either. 

 

In this case the complaint seems to be about a detail that has not been painted correctly. I have a number of models which, before I bought them, I knew were inaccurate in some respect, but still chose to cough up. As I pointed out, by not buying, he has saved £260. If he knows of a better, more accurate model of this version, then let him buy that instead. I felt, when making my buying decisions, that I was unlikely to find a better model this side of the grave, so up I stumped. That decision did not require me to air my trivia on a forum. 

 

Perhaps it didn't need to be, but by the same token it didn't need jumping all over either. Applying your purchasing logic to this thread, you could equally have chosen not to participate in it, if it was not to your liking. Something I will have to remember myself when the correct position of a reversing rod is being discussed.

 

The part in question has not been painted at all, it is an unreleased model.

Edited February 23, 2020 by stovepipe
sense

[TomScrut]

30 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

But why is it being posted on RMweb in the first place? I get very bored with members using this forum to try to beat a supplier, service or shop over the head. Quite often the 'member' has virtually no posting history, either. 

 

In this case the complaint seems to be about a detail that has not been painted correctly. I have a number of models which, before I bought them, I knew were inaccurate in some respect, but still chose to cough up. As I pointed out, by not buying, he has saved £260. If he knows of a better, more accurate model of this version, then let him buy that instead. I felt, when making my buying decisions, that I was unlikely to find a better model this side of the grave, so up I stumped. That decision did not require me to air my trivia on a forum. 

 

I think the thing is, whilst it would seem the OP has been criticised/told like it or lump it for pointing out an error whilst Hornby are in the position to do something about it with costs probably not unreasonable in terms of the grand scheme of things there are others in the Hattons' class 66 thread wanting replacement circuit boards for what is a minor error on the marker lights (which don't exist on all other RTR OO 66 models I might add). Yet whilst there has been discussion about why it probably doesn't make financial sense for Hattons to do this it is to me a more extreme request yet it has not been jumped upon like this has. For what little my opinion is worth I think everyone has got a bit to excited about it on both sides of the argument.

 

Yes it is a purchasing decision to be made but I don't think it was unreasonable posting on here about it, especially since the OP has also contacted Hornby about it (i.e. trying to do something positive about it).

 

And I'll admit, I am one of the people that if I had one of those 66s and didn't want to return it I'd mend it myself, but Hattons are well aware of the issue and I don't see why it's a problem when somebody points something out. Demanding they change something is another matter but this isn't what has happened here.

Edited February 23, 2020 by TomScrut

[Steamport Southport]

The problem is the complainer has a history of moaning about Hornby, steam engines (that Hornby are somehow anti-modern) and prices.

 

To an extent that you could perceive to be trolling. Maybe now he has a genuine complaint people aren't taking him as seriously as they would somebody else....

 

 

Just an observation.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem is the complainer has a history of moaning about Hornby, steam engines (that Hornby are somehow anti-modern) and prices.

 

To an extent that you could perceive to be trolling. Maybe now he has a genuine complaint people aren't taking him as seriously as they would somebody else....

 

 

Just an observation.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Ok well I don't know about that as I am new on here, and therefore I don't think its fair to comment either way in that respect.

 

FWIW the only area I feel Hornby don't cover modern well is wagons. I think the only wagon era 11 in the range is the converted MGR wagons for China clay (can't remember the code) and the Intermodal wagons, and there isn't much era 9 or 10 stuff. Whilst they do have loads of steam stuff they do a decent job on modern I think and have plenty of tooling to suit the current network, even if the stock they can cover is predominantly older ex BR stuff.

 

Whilst the only thing that has come out really recently in terms of rolling stock they cover is the IEP given how prolific they are likely to be they chose well there.

[classy52]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem is the complainer has a history of moaning about Hornby, steam engines (that Hornby are somehow anti-modern) and prices.

 

To an extent that you could perceive to be trolling. Maybe now he has a genuine complaint people aren't taking him as seriously as they would somebody else....

 

 

Just an observation.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Do you want to backup your slanderous libelous comments about by character or do we need the moderators to get involved?

So I am a complainer and have a history of moaning thus you must literally keep tabs on people posting, replying etc to know exactly what people are like?

Now in regards to steam engines where did you get this info from considering I have not made 1 single post on any steam thread within RMWeb or said anything about steam apart from single post a couple of years back saying that I'm not into steam...please don't tell me you're using that as evidence 

You literally made me go thru 42 pages of posts and apart from my usual opinions on Hornby products (really no different to other RMWeber's) which contain praise, wishlist's and yes, wait for it...negative feedback, that I would like Hornby to do as new tools thus there isn't a shred of evidence that I regard Hornby as anti-modern but yes have said once they lean more to the steam era's...again please don't tell me you're using that as evidence 

I can't believe the audacity in you posting this utter rubbish about me.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by classy52

[eldomtom2]

Libel, not slander. It's written, not spoken.

[classy52]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

But why is it being posted on RMweb in the first place? I get very bored with members using this forum to try to beat a supplier, service or shop over the head. Quite often the 'member' has virtually no posting history, either. 

 

In this case the complaint seems to be about a detail that has not been painted correctly. I have a number of models which, before I bought them, I knew were inaccurate in some respect, but still chose to cough up. As I pointed out, by not buying, he has saved £260. If he knows of a better, more accurate model of this version, then let him buy that instead. I felt, when making my buying decisions, that I was unlikely to find a better model this side of the grave, so up I stumped. That decision did not require me to air my trivia on a forum. 

 

We are going around in circles but I'll reply anyway otherwise people can just post rubbish and get away with it.

Firstly, going by your first sentence I should basically shut up or do you apply that logic to certain posters or posts only?

Secondly, how the hell is it a complaint?

I literally posted a request for Hornby to look into adding the black colour to the horn grills & camera box to a model not even released yet as a suggested improvement but you deem that as a complaint ...and it all went pear shaped from there...

 

[classy52]

3 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Libel, not slander. It's written, not spoken.

 

Yep thanks for the correction.

[adb968008]

Quote

English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals (under English law companies are legal persons, and allowed to bring suit for defamation[106][107][108]) in a manner that causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of them. Allowable defenses are justification (the truth of the statement), fair comment (whether the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held), absolute privilege (whether the statements were made in Parliament or in court, or whether they were fair reports of allegations in the public interest) and qualified privilege (where it is thought that the freedom of expression outweighs the protection of reputation, but not to the degree of granting absolute immunity).[109] An offer of amends is a barrier to litigation. A defamatory statement is presumed to be false unless the defendant can prove its truth. Furthermore, to collect compensatory damages, a public official or public figure must prove actual malice (knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the truth).[citation needed] A private individual must only prove negligence (not using due care) to collect compensatory damages.[citation needed] To collect punitive damages, all individuals must prove actual malice.

I’m not of opinion this is going anywhere on reading the above.

 

maybe instead we could go back to a more relative discussion of Hornby's 2020 range ?

Edited February 23, 2020 by adb968008

[Right Away]

Phew! Are we nearly done?

[Oldddudders]

56 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Libel, not slander. It's written, not spoken.

Details, always details! Oh - hang on - that's what this is all about!

[adb968008]

24 minutes ago, D1051 said:

Hats off to Hornby taking on one off prototype locos like 71000 & the LNER Hush Hush loco. Which i'm sure will sell well.

 

& picking up the APT after recent "events" when i thought shame that's the end of any prospect of that. 

 

It shows me Hornby listen.

 

So to my point as a 58 year old modeler there is one "successful" prototype that served BR constructed in 1972 its 50th anniversary is 2020. looming large on my & a few others "wishlist"  the HST prototype .One of the most eye catching trains of its day .

 

sorry to hijack the thread BUT its a compliment/wish post.

Indeed Hornby doing the prototype HST would be the most cost effective all round...

 

Hornby could reuse their chassis, and use their mk3’s to produce coaches to.

Whilst the mk3’s wont be entirely accurate, they wont be any worse than their other sell out special mk3’s, and at reasonable cost.

[Dunsignalling]

Perhaps more than one "contributor" to this thread should take account of the wise advice that when in a hole, it's a good idea to stop digging.

 

Advising Hornby of the yellowness of various areas that should be black is perfectly sensible, but I see little point in airing the fact that one has done so on here unless and until a response is forthcoming. 

 

As for the model itself, if the omissions remain uncorrected upon release, potential buyers have the same three choices that apply to every model we are offered: [1] Buy one and fix anything we aren't happy with, [2] buy one and put up with any shortcomings in order not to reduce a hoped-for resale value, or [3] refrain from buying at all.

 

It seems to me that, if one is thinking about disposal before purchase, the item isn't exactly a "must-have" and I, for one, wouldn't spend £260 on anything I was half-hearted about. There's plenty of stuff that I really want that would take priority.

 

John

 

[adb968008]

Does anyone not see irony in that theres two pages of oven temperature responses about a little black panel, thats actually glass, not black...whilst ignoring the various inaccuracies of the carriages in between the power cars ?

 

 

it would be great if that model panel actually did have a camera in it, so we modellers could get to see the same views as these guys...

 

i actually took a series of pictures in March 2017 through the glass, just incase, some day in the future someone did make a model of this train, with the intention of printing them, and inserting them behind the windows and backlighting the images to make the effect better..

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by adb968008