Hornby 2020 range announcements

[WILLIAM]

18 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Just received an unexpected email from Hattons saying Hornby have cancelled their forthcoming Network Rail Mk3 DVT R4990.

 

I only managed to pre-order one a couple of weeks ago as many retailers were saying they had sold out their allocation on pre-order already!

 

Strange? Licencing issue?

Given the various comments since I posted this I am beginning to think that, although explicit, the emails from Hattons are incorrectly worded and what they really wanted to say is they have pre--sold their allocatioon and will not be able to get anymore of these particular items. I've emailed them asking for confirmation.

[TomScrut]

18 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Just received an unexpected email from Hattons saying Hornby have cancelled their forthcoming Network Rail Mk3 DVT R4990.

 

I only managed to pre-order one a couple of weeks ago as many retailers were saying they had sold out their allocation on pre-order already!

 

Strange? Licencing issue?

 

I find it odd that it has sold out to be honest, aren't they a bit of a white elephant?

 

They only worked with 67s and had gauging issues didn't they? And now they spend their time just parked up at Derby I expect.

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, WILLIAM said:

Given the various comments since I posted this I am beginning to think that, although explicit, the emails from Hattons are incorrectly worded and what they really wanted to say is they have pre--sold their allocatioon and will not be able to get anymore of these particular items. I've emailed them asking for confirmation.

This has indeed happened as you say before. Have you checked the Hornby website? Kernow did a special of this a couple of years ago btw.

[RJennings]

Got the same e-mail from Hattons about R4990/R4991/R4997 - Worrying since I pre-ordered these within 48 hours of the announcement so if that doesn't guarantee them not quite sure what will going forward?

 

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

They only worked with 67s and had gauging issues didn't they? And now they spend their time just parked up at Derby I expect.

 

One did form part of a test train on Monday evening which seems a regular occurance for this specific working every 4 weeks I think it is (Can't remember what the other vehicles were though but was top and tailed colas 67s) - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H17635/2020-10-19/detailed

[WILLIAM]

8 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I find it odd that it has sold out to be honest, aren't they a bit of a white elephant?

 

They only worked with 67s and had gauging issues didn't they? And now they spend their time just parked up at Derby I expect.

 

I think you are right about very limited use but it appears if you paint anything yellow it sells well.

[big jim]

33 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I find it odd that it has sold out to be honest, aren't they a bit of a white elephant?

 

They only worked with 67s and had gauging issues didn't they? And now they spend their time just parked up at Derby I expect.

 

I took them for a spin from derby with a 67 and 73 top and tail to crewe and back once!!

 

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

If a ship is built in a British yard nowadays it’s national news because of it’s rarity. 

 

Quite so.

 

Cammel Lairds have been in and out of the jaws of death over the past few decades. They're a shadow of their former selves, but they still have the mojo when allowed.

 

The RSS Sir David Attenborough left Cammel Lairds yesterday afternoon to commence preparation for sea trials.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54597767

 

I do like this plot of the route the ship took between Lairds fitting out dock and the Cruise Ship Terminal.  God knows what the were up to immediately after leaving the dock!

 

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/117F7/production/_115017617_map-nc.png

 

Lairds are also refitting the engines for the RN Type 45 destroyers.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/type-45-destroyers-to-complete-power-plant-repairs-by-mid-2020s/

 

 

 

[CUCKOO LINE]

all Network Rail it seems seem to be on Hornby site and either available to order or pre-order

[No Decorum]

40 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I do like this plot of the route the ship took between Lairds fitting out dock and the Cruise Ship Terminal.  God knows what the were up to immediately after leaving the dock!

 

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/117F7/production/_115017617_map-nc.png

 

I love that! Sub-Lieutenant Phillips has come out of retirement!

[andyman7]

I can't help thinking that we are seeing a shift in the world of the 'box-shifter'. Many people are not old enough to remember that until the late 1970s this concept did not really exist in Model Railways. Even Hattons did not really undercut normal prices of new releases, but instead created their USP buy being a big buyer of remaindered and bankrupt stock hence being able to offer bargains unavailable elsewhere.
In the late 1970s Guy Norris started advertising in the model railway press with big (for the time) discounts on RRPs for current/recent releases across the range (rather than a selection of sale items). This coincided with the seismic shocks in the toy and hobby industry in the late 70s/early 80s as almost overnight, the youth market (8-14) which underwrote this market shifted to computer games, abandoning traditional pursuits such as model toys, kits etc. For a decade or more, the box-shifters could use their might to hoover up all manner of surplus stock and sell at well below what the average High Street toy/hobby store could manage. This in turn created the preception that model railways were all about big markups when in fact consumers were benefiting from the fallout from a massive contraction in the market, with a decisive shift to older age groups.
This latter trend, coupled with the coming of age of China as the world centre for RTR model making (the result of a concentration of a skilled workforce coupled with a cost base that effectively destroyed any competition in the western world)  created a new boom which the box-shifters could ride in the late 90s/noughties.

Since 2010 though, China costs have risen and capacity for model-manufacturing has been squeezed by other more profitable maufacturing activities. This has led to a marked slow down in supply. The box-shifters have lost access to the bulk stocks that sustained them for three decades. This has led to the rise of the direct contract manufacturing that has put some of them in conflict with the established manufacturers. But it has also highlighted another issue, that if a manufacturer is going to make 2000 of an item based on estimated market demand, it does not benefit from allowing two or three retailers to hoover up the majority and sell them at a price that undercuts the rest of their retail network. Following some wobbles a few years ago from the red team, both Hornby and Bachmann now value the network of independent retailers that provide the main outlets for their products in the absence of any high street chains. 

This means that with the Centenary models in particular, the ability of the box-shifters to grab hundreds of pre-orders has been stymied on two fronts - firstly, they can no longer undercut below an agreed margin without breaching their supply agreements and losing their accounts; and secondly, they simply cannot obtain enough stock to sell to all comers. 
By contrast, a good relationship with a smaller retailer (maybe not even local but one for whom one forges a steady buying habit with) works wonders in securing these hard to find items.

The maxim of a 'pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap' box shifter is fatally undermined when neither is possible!

[Steamport Southport]

Yeah. I was going to go down and have a look a David McDavidface, But couldn't be bothered.

 

As for it's route, it doesn't say what else was there. Might have had to avoid a tanker or something.

[Dunsignalling]

Trying out it's abilities on three point turns?

[Tallpaul69]

22 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I love that! Sub-Lieutenant Phillips has come out of retirement!

And there might well have been Leading Seaman Goldstein on lookout!

[Legend]

Lummy!   Left hand down a bit 

[TomScrut]

18 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

they can no longer undercut below an agreed margin without breaching their supply agreements and losing their accounts;

 

Whilst I know it goes on a LOT in all sorts of markets, I always wonder how companies get away with doing that.

 

20 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

The maxim of a 'pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap' box shifter is fatally undermined when neither is possible!

 

Yes and the thing is that really if I am looking for an item that is not new release and therefore locked in price wise then looking for an item there is absolutely no guarantee who would be the cheapest. There are a lot of shops nowadays with a good online presence who also do a decent amount of discounting. I'd expect that dealers nowadays don't get different terms either and therefore it is a lot more level a playing field.

[Chris116]

The fact that the "box shifters" are having to face the current situation mentioned above is probably also the reason why they are branching out and doing their own models. Doing that has seemingly caused friction with the big manufacturers which means the future could be very different to what we have grown used to in the last 20 years.

 

Change is something that happens all the time in many different spheres. I can remember when I could find lots of bargains on ebay but nowadays it is hard to find things that are even reasonably priced and the ebay madness thread shows how much totally over priced rubbish is about.

 

Smaller manufacturers have appeared and in the main produced useful models although there is the one blot on that landscape. Things are going to change over the next few years even more than they have already done, in part due to the virus. The main thing is that, as customers, we remain aware of what is happening so that we can take advantage of it.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Chris116

[WILLIAM]

3 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Given the various comments since I posted this I am beginning to think that, although explicit, the emails from Hattons are incorrectly worded and what they really wanted to say is they have pre--sold their allocatioon and will not be able to get anymore of these particular items. I've emailed them asking for confirmation.

Hattons have promptly come back to me and confirmed the models mentioned in their emails are still being produced however their expected allocation has been lowered so they have to cancel some pre-orders. They apologised for the situation and confusion caused.

Edited October 22, 2020 by WILLIAM

[Steamport Southport]

The difference is models now tend to be short runs of a lot of different models in various identities.

 

Back in the day there would be about a dozen locomotives in the entire range and they were in the catalogue for about five years or more. If you wanted an LNER A4 in the early 1980s it was Seagull or nothing.

 

A Hall? It was Kneller Hall and then Hagley Hall. If you wanted a different one it was for you to do. If you wanted a BR one. Tough. Paint it yourself.

 

Do people really want to go back to that?

 

The good old days weren't always as good as we think.

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

Lummy!   Left hand down a bit 

 

Three times after leaving the dock, before they took the helm off him!

 

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

As for it's route, it doesn't say what else was there. Might have had to avoid a tanker or something.

 

Not that close to the shore, and nowhere near the Woodside landing stage either, so it shouldn't have been near a Ferry 'cross the Mersey either.

[andyman7]

 

38 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The difference is models now tend to be short runs of a lot of different models in various identities.

Yes, but remember that after production initiallly moved to China, there was an avalanche of different identities for each new release, so although a specific run might be small there was another version right behind. Remember how many WC/BoB models Hornby made between 2001 and 2010? What has happened since is that the gap between releases has become wider leading to prolonged periods where no example of a particular model is available. The wish list for new liveries on the Bachmann Class 90 suggests we'll be waiting a very long time for them all to be fulfilled.

[TomScrut]

58 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Bachmann Class 90 suggests we'll be waiting a very long time for them all to be fulfilled

 

And unfortunately because some of the first batch are knocking about in shops still there might not be a rush to do more either.

[keybuk]

4 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Hattons have promptly come back to me and confirmed the models mentioned in their emails are still being produced however their expected allocation has been lowered so they have to cancel some pre-orders. They apologised for the situation and confusion caused.

 

Yeah this is what I suspected...

 

Which of course means that a pre-order is no longer a guarantee of actually getting the thing you ordered, which in of itself is somewhat concerning.

[Legend]

Wish I knew what was going on here. There’s the Rails /Hornby fall out and now Hattons seems to be having issues with pre orders . The thing is that this is not the first time . Remember the Rocket where Hattons had to tell people they weren’t getting their pre orders , that they didn’t get the allocation they wanted .   It undermines people’s confidence in pre ordering goods . It seems there’s no certainty pre ordering with Hattons means you will get your model. Not good .  Also the initial email saying models were not being produced leaves a bad taste , as clearly they were and it’s that Hattons oversold it’s allocation.  

Edited October 23, 2020 by Legend

[friscopete]

Your moaning  ?. I am still waiting for Eggerbahn's American 2-6-2.Not a word for 60 years .

[phil-b259]

52 minutes ago, keybuk said:

 

Yeah this is what I suspected...

 

Which of course means that a pre-order is no longer a guarantee of actually getting the thing you ordered, which in of itself is somewhat concerning.

 

No - but how else does a retailer decide who gets a model and who misses out?

 

'First come, First served' is a sound principle - and if you pre-order soon after the model is announced you end up towards the front of the queue and thus stand a grater chance of obtaining the model should their be a shortage.