Hornby 2020 range announcements

[brushman47544]

5 hours ago, D1051 said:

looking at the steps attached to buffer beam id say a BR standard 

a western region view ?Why do a repro 1971 cover ?

Why not? Perhaps it is an all new 9F, since 2021 is 50 years since the first tender driven 9F was released in 1971. A reworking of the catalogue cover would also fit that anniversary. And the 43xx (I think) sneaking in to the right could be another hint. Who knows...?

[The Johnster]

Steam RTR is not far off total market penetration, most of the locos that were built in large numbers post grouping are available with an increasing number of pre-grouping models.  I think the biggest class left untouched so far is probably the LMS Fowler Austin 7 0-8-0, which worked across that company's network, mostly south of Crewe, until the early 60s.. There were 175 of these, with little variation; feedwater heaters were fitted to some but removed during WW2, and a few were converted to oil burning for a while in the late 40s, presumably under the same government scheme that facilited the GW oil fired attempt.  I doubt any ever carried the ferret and dartboard totem or anything other than plain black livery for their entire working lives. 

 

They were liked by some drivers as steady sloggers ideal for mineral work, and seem to have been fairly good steamers, but suffered from the 'Derby axlebox syndrome' that plagued many early LMS types.  They are perhaps not the prettiest out there but that hasn't prevented 4Fs and other rather plain looking beasts from being successful RTR models.  It is probable that more would have been built were it not for the very successful Stanier 8F, a much more versatile loco that could deal with Austin 7 work better than an Austin 7 and had no issue with it's axleboxes.  I'm no engineer, and there's probably a good reason, but it seems odd that the LMS/LMR never upgraded these axleboxes, which would have improved the availability of many Derby based designs.  I believe they did this with the Royal Scot and Patriot rebuilds,

 

Anyhoo, and to return to my intended point after a Sunday afternoon diversion, there are no new steam locos, haven't been for years, and there is therefore a finite number of locos to produce which can never increase, and the low hanging fruit is long gone.  There are of course hundreds of classes not yet available as RTR models and there are some could do with retooling, but I'm not a fan of retooling unless a significant improvement can be made to a poor model.  My view is that there is a concept that new = better and the bulk of current RTR production has been tooled in this century, and the models are pretty good,  If the running is poor, a retooled mech may be needed, but I can't think of many current RTR steam outline model except some in Railroad that is really bad enough in detail, scale, or running to justify complete retooling.  The real dogs, ex-Dapol 10xx County, ex-Mainline Manor/43xx, and the generic Hornby JInty chassis 0-6-0s like the 2721, J83, J52, '08', JInty and so on are not currently being marketed (some of the Hornby 0-6-0s may feature in train sets for specific outlets). 

 

As I say, there are hundreds of steam locos that have never been produced as RTR models, but the potential market for these largely lesser known locos is another matter and one can understand the trade's reluctance.  It can work; Graham Farish did ok in the 50s and 60s with an 81xx for example, but there was so little on the market then that anything would have sold; Triang produced an S class saddle tank which made a profit!  But, we are not likely now to ever see many more RTR types than have already been produced, and the same goes for 1st and 2nd generation diesels.

 

Current scene modelling OTOH is a book not yet written.  Apart from liveries, new types will appear regularly and RTR will provide them.  But I think we are approaching an end to the days of multiple new previously unseen locos appearing every year.  Less new stuff, higher quality, and more DCC whistles and bells is probably the future.  I'll be happy if someone does my 2721...

[TomScrut]

4 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Perhaps it is an all new 9F

 

In fairness, I'd be more likely to buy an all new one.

 

I aren't interested in the current Hornby one, Bachmann wise I keep flirting with the NRM Evening Star and the Collector's Club Leicester City but I can't help but feel for the asking price it ought to have a flickering firebox and painted cab internals. Maybe it's just that I don't buy big steam locos as a rule so I don't know how much they should cost.

 

[adb968008]

I suspect the image has been adjusted to fit a portrait A4 layout, looking at the part cut bufferbeam, using the original image would leave a “hanging” yard lamp without a post..maybe they just nudged it up a bit.

 

The Crosti 9f chassis is good, they have a super detail tender,

Perhaps they are making a new die cast metal body for it ?

 

[Les1952]

5 hours ago, D1051 said:

So i see from my Cuneo print .Still baffled Why the reuse of 71 Cover.

 

 

50 years on....?

[TomScrut]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Perhaps they are making a new die cast metal body for it ?

 

If you mean for them to do an Evening Star

 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

On 18/12/2020 at 15:42, meatloaf said:

Rails have posted on facebook to say the new Hornby peckett is in stock

 

R3640 Peckett W4 'Nicausse' Willans and Robinson 0-4-0 Tank Locomotive No.88 (OO Gauge) by Hornby - Rails of Sheffield

Sorry? Rails and Hornby stock in the same sentence??!

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

On 17/12/2020 at 17:03, scottrains29 said:

My issue is the lack of knowledge about 'modern' stock. Take the popular Virgin HST. Every set needs a mk3 TGS coach yet Hornby still haven't produced one in Virgin HST livery (now 21 years since Hornby released the full length Virgin HST coaches). The TGS they did produce was in loco hauled livery which obviously didn't even exist in real life and looks odd when placed next to HST stock. Over the years Hornby have also produced Virgin HST packs with both loco hauled and HST livered coaches. I don't think they understand the difference.

 

The Hornby Virgin mk2e was another annoyance. Producing the SO and BSO but no RFB to complete the set.

 

This year they produced the Virgin mk2f BSO and FO yet these coaches never actually ran together! Bachmann, on the other hand announced a full set of Virgin mk2f coaches to allow the modeller to recreate an accurate rake.

 

I feel like Hornby have a 'that'll do' attitude to modern image.

 

Another annoyance was the Northern Belle coach pack with new tooling mk2e yet the train pack came with old Airfix mk2d coaches. Some of the train pack coaches are actually meant to be mk2e! As the mk2d/e FO visually look the same there was no reason for Hornby to use the crude Airfix tooling, esp as the mk2e is in the Railroad range so probably doesn't cost any more to produce yet looks far superior and would have matched the coach pack. It would have created a lot more sales.  

 

Hopefully the 2021 range will be a bit more joined up.

 

Err, what is the difference between a Virgin Mk3 HST TS vehicle and a Virgin Mk3 loco hauled TSO vehicle, apart from the numbers and the end buffers, the latter are supplied with everything anyway? Genuine question, as the loco hauled examples fell well outside my West-is-best modelling remit but I don't remember them being any different in terms of paint finish.

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, D1051 said:

so for the foreseeable future we are going to get a time warp of catalogue covers?

Only if they offer a tantalising hint?

 

9F on the cover, 50 years since they first made one. Not subtle I grant you!

 

John

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

50 years on....?

Now theres a thought.

 

Though if each year is a 50 replay, then it makes the annual “what will they make next year” a bit of an easy one.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Now theres a thought.

 

Though if each year is a 50 replay, then it makes the annual “what will they make next year” a bit of an easy one.

 

Its a good thing a lot of the old tooling got trashed, otherwise we'd be getting the same models too...

 

[scottrains29]

On 21/12/2020 at 11:08, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Err, what is the difference between a Virgin Mk3 HST TS vehicle and a Virgin Mk3 loco hauled TSO vehicle, apart from the numbers and the end buffers, the latter are supplied with everything anyway? Genuine question, as the loco hauled examples fell well outside my West-is-best modelling remit but I don't remember them being any different in terms of paint finish.

 

The most visual difference is that the HST coaches all had silver window frames, the loco ones were just body coloured. It's quite a noticeable feature when you compare them side by side, especially in model form!

 

Hornby have produced the Virgin HST (silver window frame) coaches in train packs and separately in standard, first and buffet form. That's why it's so frustrating when they then produced the missing TGS in loco hauled colours rather than HST colours. I think it not only didn't have silver window but actually had smaller stripes and Virgin logos compared to their other Virgin HST coaches.

These errors should have been avoided had Hornby bothered to compare the coaches with their previous examples.

Edited September 19, 2021 by scottrains29

[aaron3820]

The most recent arrival from the 2020 range has landed safely in Australia just in time for Christmas!

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 18/12/2020 at 15:42, meatloaf said:

Rails have posted on facebook to say the new Hornby peckett is in stock

 

R3640 Peckett W4 'Nicausse' Willans and Robinson 0-4-0 Tank Locomotive No.88 (OO Gauge) by Hornby - Rails of Sheffield

 

On 21/12/2020 at 11:02, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Sorry? Rails and Hornby stock in the same sentence??!

 

I do not model or collect British OO, but I was just taking a general passing interest in this thread this morning and read meatloaf's post and was amazed that it took 3 days before anyone questioned it and again no-one has followed up on that.

 

I thought Rail's weren't stocking Hornby any more - or have things changed?

 

Apologies if I've missed something.

Edited December 23, 2020 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Paul.Uni]

2 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I thought Rail's weren't stocking Hornby any more - or have things changed?

IIRC Hornby products also are available to retailers via a Wholesaler. This is probably where Rails got them from.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

19 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

The most visual difference is that the HST coaches all had silver window frames, the loco ones were just body coloured. It's quite a noticeable feature when you compare them side by side, especially in model form!

 

Hornby have produced the Virgin HST (silver window frame) coaches in train packs and separately in standard, first and buffet form. That's why it's so frustrating when they then produced the missing TGS in loco hauled colours target than HST colours. I think it not only didn't have silver window but actually had smaller stripes and Virgin logos compared to their other Virgin HST coaches.

These errors should have been avoided had Hornby bothered to compare the coaches with their previous examples.

Every day a school day, I've just checked by hitting a few random Class 87 numbers into Flickr and they did indeed paint the frames on WCML loco hauled Mk3's. The answer to your TGS issue is a silver metallic marker pen, far easier to control than paint and something I use to silver the frames after Mk3 repaints anyway.

 

Regarding the logos- there were two variations on HST (I'm not going to speak for the LHCS Mk3's now!!) as early versions had "Virgin XC" with the words Cross Country written through the XC. This was changed to slightly larger plain Virgin logos after a handful of sets had been painted, although at the time the HSTs were separated by home depot and formation type they did later mix around, especially so post Voyager introduction so the switch to non-route specific logos was in retrospect a wise one. The kit-kat stripes should certainly have been the same across all vehicles, power cars, locos and trailer vehicles of all flavours- but then we expect Hornby to cock it up then as they do now. If its any consolation they did something similar when they brought out the FGW "Barbie" TGS some years after the rest of the Barbie vehicles, it's from a different rake and has the later style of half blue, half white door which sounds like a quick fix until you see there is a colour fade across the bottom of the door.

 

 

[gregpokes1/Camden]

I must admit... all the items Hornby's announced and released is quite impressive.  The W1 really surprised me for a number of reasons... and did anyone else spot not a single super detail A3 or A4 in the range?  Thought those were the staple trademark of that range.
Little did I know my advice sent via email to Hornby on a retool on the A3 and the A4 might be taken seriously.  I'd had a number of issues with the current super detail tooling of the A4 in particular.  I'd criticized the valve gear and tenders most on the tooling.  The crosshead was a rather ungainly sight on the gresley pacifics.  When Hornby's Tornado was released, the crosshead was properly modeled, which I thought would carry over to the other gresley engines but never happened.  That is the main problem I had with the Hornby tooling on the A4 engines along with the hinge rivet detailing lacking on the cods mouth door.  The tenders are almost unacceptably poor as well.  The interior of the bunker and water filler area is lacking a massive wealth of detail.  There should be bracings, rivets, ribbing, supports and a flange on the rear bunker arch.

What intrigued me is that every single critique of the A4 engine applied to the rebuilt W1... down to the crosshead swap from the Tornado tooling.  The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

Just some fuel for though for the possibilities of what we may see in the 2021, 2022 range...

[rob D2]

When I spoke to Simon Kohler , he was keen to point out they are interested in “ modern image “ ( and god  knows I’m not getting into what constitutes modern ), they came up trumps with the DB 60 in better numbers to increase supply and that’s an easy pick becuase they go everywhere .

 

I think they have to be careful what they choose these days , I thought they were brave making those dull green snakes that inhabit my local GWML , but I’m guessing enough people got one ?

 

Id rather they had done the Thames turbo myself as that has a longer pedigree and blue box seem to have lost interest .

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, gregpokes1/Camden said:

The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

 

Could they not nick the W1 tender for the A3/4 then?

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

are interested in “ modern image “ ( and god  knows I’m not getting into what constitutes modern )

 

Yes I certainly think that definition is a bit dodgy!

 

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

they came up trumps with the DB 60 in better numbers to increase supply and that’s an easy pick becuase they go everywhere .

 

They did, and plenty more 60s to go at too, 2 GBRF liveries (3 if you include debranded Colas) and 2 DC ones for a start. I had intended buying Stainless Pioneer but I got a TTS removed Dowlow for a good price so I aren't rushing for another red one.

 

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think they have to be careful what they choose these days , I thought they were brave making those dull green snakes that inhabit my local GWML , but I’m guessing enough people got one ?

 

Dull snakes or not they are essential if doing that region in current day. I have 2 of their sibling white and red snakes on order and would have their blue, purple and grey cousin on order if they made it. But I like them....

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, gregpokes1/Camden said:

I must admit... all the items Hornby's announced and released is quite impressive.  The W1 really surprised me for a number of reasons... and did anyone else spot not a single super detail A3 or A4 in the range?  Thought those were the staple trademark of that range.
Little did I know my advice sent via email to Hornby on a retool on the A3 and the A4 might be taken seriously.  I'd had a number of issues with the current super detail tooling of the A4 in particular.  I'd criticized the valve gear and tenders most on the tooling.  The crosshead was a rather ungainly sight on the gresley pacifics.  When Hornby's Tornado was released, the crosshead was properly modeled, which I thought would carry over to the other gresley engines but never happened.  That is the main problem I had with the Hornby tooling on the A4 engines along with the hinge rivet detailing lacking on the cods mouth door.  The tenders are almost unacceptably poor as well.  The interior of the bunker and water filler area is lacking a massive wealth of detail.  There should be bracings, rivets, ribbing, supports and a flange on the rear bunker arch.

What intrigued me is that every single critique of the A4 engine applied to the rebuilt W1... down to the crosshead swap from the Tornado tooling.  The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

Just some fuel for though for the possibilities of what we may see in the 2021, 2022 range...

With all the new big LNER locos in the programme, that haven't been done before, resting the A3 and A4 was to be expected. They've sold so many of each over the years that any established user must have at dozens of them by now, probably in excess of my 35 Bulleid Pacifics!

 

With all the different stuff on offer, who would buy more of the same?

 

Question is, will Hornby continue to concentrate on things Eastern in 2021. As an (almost) exclusively Southern modeller, the only ER loco that might interest me would be 'Kingfisher', which visited a couple of times on railtours.

 

Will there be anything for me? Hopefully a couple of air-smoothed MNs in 1956-59 condition once Hornby have got the malachite and blue liveries out of their system. Maybe something smaller and new, too? If not, I'll have the funds available for a load more of the new Bachmann Bulleid coaches than anticipated.

 

John

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

With all the other big LNER locos in the programme, that haven't been done before, renting the A3 and A4 was to be expected. They've sold so many of each over the years that any established user must have at least a dozen of each by now.

 

With so much they haven't already got on offer, who would buy more of the same?

 

And with Sir Walter K Wingham and Mallard in BR still in shops from last year, and Sir Nigel Gresley as a new release in the train set (which is the super detail AFAIK) it's not like they aren't available.

 

I also expect RR (where Mallard and Flying Scotsman are done) being the biggest market for those particular locos.

[rob D2]

33 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I certainly think that definition is a bit dodgy!

 

 

They did, and plenty more 60s to go at too, 2 GBRF liveries (3 if you include debranded Colas) and 2 DC ones for a start. I had intended buying Stainless Pioneer but I got a TTS removed Dowlow for a good price so I aren't rushing for another red one.

 

 

Dull snakes or not they are essential if doing that region in current day. I have 2 of their sibling white and red snakes on order and would have their blue, purple and grey cousin on order if they made it. But I like them....

True, but then again the Thames turbo and its chiltern cousin would be essential if you were modelling those lines for the past 30 ish years. But as these modern units get passed about, and spawn other orders for similar they’ve future proofed themselves I guess 

[TomScrut]

7 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

True, but then again the Thames turbo and its chiltern cousin would be essential if you were modelling those lines for the past 30 ish years. But as these modern units get passed about, and spawn other orders for similar they’ve future proofed themselves I guess 

 

Yes and I think that at the moment there wouldn't be many complaints of more units being done anyway! At the moment people can make fantastic models of a model railway that almost looks real yet the stock that runs over them probably 75% during the daytime is unavailable because most people seem more interested in freight.

[brushman47544]

I would agree that Simon Kohler /Hornby are interested in ‘Modern image’, just that for them it means something closer to the current scene. The BR blue era seems to pass them by.