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Hornby 2020 range announcements


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1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

Any particular model may be limited to a 1000 models. That doesn't preclude the tooling being used to make other class members and without the anniversary packaging

They already have a Princess Coronation though - and I wager that's why a one-off diecast body is viable, since there's no need for research and everything except the base body is recycled.

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7 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Dave, over on the APT thread Paul Isles has confirmed through a third party that the 7 car APT will have black screen 9but contain the development car) while the 5 car one will have full yellow front . Apparently there are full details in catalogue . I hope so. Must say I’ve found Hornby catalogues fairly vague on certain points . 

 

Third party here - these details are also confirmed by the descriptions on the Hornby website - the 5 car set has the full list of it's stock and the 7 car set mentions the development car, but not if it's a 2+1+Power+Dummy+2 or a 2+1+Power+3. Photos on the net seem to suggest the former.

 

Cheers,

  60800

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5 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

I do wonder if they have gone a bit OTT on the limited editions front. Many are excellent choices but another Evening Star in 70s style packaging? Another Sir Nigel Gresley? and Smokey Joe - a limited edition? The last would have been perfect as the club special. £500+ for a tin plate 0-4-0 replica from 1920. There are not many but I may have understood more if it were say an O gauge Princess Elizabeth replica. Hachette were doing O gauge 0-4-0 tin plate replicas for about £15, fifteen years back http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/hachette/index.html

 

I like the theme of a 'train per decade', but also winced when I saw the price of the tinplate 0-4-0. Having recently dabbled in live steam, for an extra £135 you could buy a UK made, all metal, live steam Roundhouse 0-4-0 loco, or alternatively a slightly lower spec Mamod MKIII live steam 0-4-0 loco for £165 less than the tin plate limited edition. Looks like they are selling though and I guess on that basis, investment value could rocket assuming there are no second runs.  

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17 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Dave, over on the APT thread Paul Isles has confirmed through a third party that the 7 car APT will have black screen 9but contain the development car) while the 5 car one will have full yellow front . Apparently there are full details in catalogue . I hope so. Must say I’ve found Hornby catalogues fairly vague on certain points . 

Hi, thanks for that.

 

What is the development car? lol.   I will get the catalogue and all will hopefully be explained.

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4 minutes ago, DaveClass47 said:

Hi, thanks for that.

 

What is the development car? lol.   I will get the catalogue and all will hopefully be explained.

It was effectively the prototype MK4 - an APT trailer body on non-articulated bogies with a different underframe design. 

 

Cheers,

  60800

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20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Well, well, well: proper Coronation Scot carriages!

 

(And for once a range of carriages where one can't have too many firsts!)

 

Should one look forward to standard Period 3 60 ft composites and brake composites and 50 ft kitchen car in the fullness of time?

 

I'm not a religious man but oh my god yes yes yes I hope and pray!

 

20 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

Sadly no 60' or 62' underframe stock in the original Coronation Scot sets. 

Other than the BTO and FK already produced the ones that look fairly straightforward possibles from the proposed coaches would be

50' D1912 RK

57' D1910 BFK. D1904 TO

65' D1902 RFO

 

 

A boy can dream though!

 

To be honest I'd be really happy just to have a RTR TO to a modern spec!

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11 minutes ago, 60800 said:

It was effectively the prototype MK4 - an APT trailer body on non-articulated bogies with a different underframe design. 

 

Cheers,

  60800

 

IRRC someone has posted/linked to pics of it either back in this thread or in the new Hornby APT thread

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I think that the Hornby 2020 range is well balanced in my opinion and its great to see that other regions are also being given the chance as well. Yes I am a GWR fan and I will be getting that HST with the additional Mk3's when they are due out. I will be getting the Class 60's in the DB red as well as the APT and the Rocket and I will be reviewing those on my YouTube channel as soon as I can get my hands on them. I will certainly be getting the Hornby Class 56 in the Hungarian livery as I have the Romanian Class 92 model (my excuse is I like something different) and I will probably get a GBRF Class 50 as well. I am getting the 2020 Hornby Brochure today to remind me of the other models as there is so many. Its easy to forget.

 

As for Hornby upgrading their models. I think that models like the Class 60 would only need minor upgrades to make them up to date. Metal or brass horns and handrails would benefit the Class 60 in terms of looks and the metal horns would be less prone to breaking off. Although I am careful with my models, I have seen Hornby Class 60's with missing/broken horns in adverts for sale and its the same with the handrails. Some came off on one of my models and they are a devil to fit back on because they "flex" as metal ones are more "rigid" and are more easier to handle. A cab light upgrade with an "auto off" function when the train moves in DCC mode would be a great feature as well I think :).

 

As for the electrical side of things. Hornby should upgrade the innards to allow a 21 or an 18 pin decoder to be used. As I believe other companies are now using 21 pin interface and the newer 18 pin (or is it 16 pin? - I cannot remember which is was) interfaces on their range to make their models more functional and compliant for newer DCC technology. Of course I am not including the smaller models like the Sentinel Shunter etc that uses a nano decoder. For the regular models, knocking up a new PCB for the new decoders shouldn't require too much investment to do as Hornby have upgraded them in the past to improve reliability for the directional lights on the Class 60 and the Class 43 HST etc by swapping the metal contacts (very unreliable in my opinion) to plug in harnesses which has fixed the problem with non working lights. A great move in my opinion :).

 

@GordonC From what I have learned about the recent comings with the new Class 91 from Hornby. Its probably better to let Hornby upgrade this Class 110 model to a premium model when the demand and interests need one as then the old model could be relegated to the Railroad range. Although I think Bachmann makes the Derby lightweight DMU which if they wished to, they could make a Class 110 because to me, there doesn't seem to look a lot of differences to my untrained eyes. 

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4 minutes ago, BritishRail60062 said:

 

As for the electrical side of things. Hornby should upgrade the innards to allow a 21 or an 18 pin decoder to be used. As I believe other companies are now using 21 pin interface and the newer 18 pin (or is it 16 pin? - I cannot remember which is was) interfaces on their range to make their models more functional and compliant for newer DCC technology.

 

Bachman have fitted Plux22 into the new 158...………… (and the latest SLW 24)

As for NEXT18 - best use of that is in very small locos.

 

Note - Hornby have previously fitted 21 pin into factory fitted sound locos that used ESU decoders - but have now reverted back to 8pin for their TTS range.

 

If they want to move on with more lighting functions, then they will have to go beyond the "traditional" 8-pin.

 

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5 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Bachman have fitted Plux22 into the new 158...………… (and the latest SLW 24)

As for NEXT18 - best use of that is in very small locos.

 

Note - Hornby have previously fitted 21 pin into factory fitted sound locos that used ESU decoders - but have now reverted back to 8pin for their TTS range.

 

If they want to move on with more lighting functions, then they will have to go beyond the "traditional" 8-pin.

 

I completely agree mate and I am sure that the investment will be worthwhile for Hornby in this aspect. Additionally the new PCB could allow Hornby to add a second switch so that the tail lights can be turned off when a train is being hauled because it would make train operations more realistic and if the tail lights had another circuit added. The switch could be used on analogue mode and a function key for DCC mode. 

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Take note the Hornby R4995 OO Gauge Network Rail ex-Mk1 BG Generator Van 6264 - Era 11 appears to be a duplicate of the previously released version from Bachmann 39-175X Mk 1 Generator van (ex-BG) 6264 which was a Model Rail exclusive...luckily I have a spreadsheet detailing what I've got.

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37 minutes ago, BritishRail60062 said:

I think that the Hornby 2020 range is well balanced in my opinion and its great to see that other regions are also being given the chance as well. Yes I am a GWR fan and I will be getting that HST with the additional Mk3's when they are due out. I will be getting the Class 60's in the DB red as well as the APT and the Rocket and I will be reviewing those on my YouTube channel as soon as I can get my hands on them. I will certainly be getting the Hornby Class 56 in the Hungarian livery as I have the Romanian Class 92 model (my excuse is I like something different) and I will probably get a GBRF Class 50 as well. I am getting the 2020 Hornby Brochure today to remind me of the other models as there is so many. Its easy to forget.

 

As for Hornby upgrading their models. I think that models like the Class 60 would only need minor upgrades to make them up to date. Metal or brass horns and handrails would benefit the Class 60 in terms of looks and the metal horns would be less prone to breaking off. Although I am careful with my models, I have seen Hornby Class 60's with missing/broken horns in adverts for sale and its the same with the handrails. Some came off on one of my models and they are a devil to fit back on because they "flex" as metal ones are more "rigid" and are more easier to handle. A cab light upgrade with an "auto off" function when the train moves in DCC mode would be a great feature as well I think :).

 

As for the electrical side of things. Hornby should upgrade the innards to allow a 21 or an 18 pin decoder to be used. As I believe other companies are now using 21 pin interface and the newer 18 pin (or is it 16 pin? - I cannot remember which is was) interfaces on their range to make their models more functional and compliant for newer DCC technology. Of course I am not including the smaller models like the Sentinel Shunter etc that uses a nano decoder. For the regular models, knocking up a new PCB for the new decoders shouldn't require too much investment to do as Hornby have upgraded them in the past to improve reliability for the directional lights on the Class 60 and the Class 43 HST etc by swapping the metal contacts (very unreliable in my opinion) to plug in harnesses which has fixed the problem with non working lights. A great move in my opinion :).

 

@GordonC From what I have learned about the recent comings with the new Class 91 from Hornby. Its probably better to let Hornby upgrade this Class 110 model to a premium model when the demand and interests need one as then the old model could be relegated to the Railroad range. Although I think Bachmann makes the Derby lightweight DMU which if they wished to, they could make a Class 110 because to me, there doesn't seem to look a lot of differences to my untrained eyes. 

 

The body profile looks quite different between the Derby Lightweight and the Class 104/110 - if you look at the bodyside its a smooth curve on the Derby lightweight compared to the 110 which has fairly flat sides and a tumblehome at the bottom.

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1 hour ago, DaveClass47 said:

Hi, thanks for that.

 

What is the development car? lol.   I will get the catalogue and all will hopefully be explained.

Regardless, I shall look forward to an APT on dean park with your usual dry pan humourous take ;)

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Ok this may be a silly question but considering the price of the Hornby Class 43 HST sets now are both locomotives now powered or is it just one powered and the other is a dummy loco?

The Hornby web site description doesn't say one way or the other.

Edited by classy52
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3 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Ok this may be a silly question but considering the price of the Hornby Class 43 HST sets now are both locomotives now powered or is it just one powered and the other is a dummy loco?

The Hornby web site description doesn't say one way or the other.

 

Yeah I know what you mean re price , but one is powered and one unpowered .

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I must admit that I’m a little peeved that Hornby are prepared to do add on coaches for the APT but won’t do the same for the LNER Class 800’s.  Both of the models are 800/1’s which are 9 cars whereas Hornby’s sets are only 5 cars.

 

The only way to make it accurate is to renumber it as a 800/2 which is a pain for a £400 model.

Edited by jools1959
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As regards TTS, I wouldn't expect further supplies of an existing TTS decoders to appear in these announcements. As with other items such as signals and track, i would expect further production once stocks were low or sold out, at least as long as the loco they fit in is still in production. Bachmann decoders stay in the catalogue but have been known to go out of stock from time to time. I can't see why Hornby should be any different.

 

The absence of new TTS decoders shouldn't perhaps be a surprise with everything else being announced this year. Same with new wagons. 2020 is "glamour" year for the anniversary. Bog standard will return next year...… hopefully.

Edited by brushman47544
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4 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

^^^^^^ 

I think it’ll still be one powered , one not as has always been 

 

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Yeah I know what you mean re price , but one is powered and one unpowered .

 

Crikey I thought with the massive price jump on the HST set and with the tooling being a few years old now they had stuck a motor in the other car :unsure:

Will still buy the NR HST Set since I have all 3 Mk3 coaches from last year which I only got this week from Kernow & now pre-ordered the other 2 so this will be my first HST purchase but £260 for 2 loco's & only one powered seems pretty steep even by today's standards...lol I honestly thought the price increases were due to sticking a motor in the dummy car :nono: 

Basically we're paying just over 200 quid for a powered car considering the dummy car would no more expensive than the DVT to make...oh well.

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9 hours ago, Mark Hamlin said:

Surprised not to see any new wagons in this announcement given the amazing quality of new wagonery in recent years from Hornby. 

Good point.  H are still churning out 16ton minerals on the wrong wheelbased generic chassis from Triang days, and there is an opening here surely for Oxford to undercut Baccy with this very essential wagon for anyone modelling periods 4, 5, 6, 7, and even more recent in industrial use.

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2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

Excluding kettles, there are very few D+E models that Hornby have gone back and re-tooled even including ex-Lima, Mainline and Airfix tooling - I can only think of Classes 08, 31, 56, 67 and 87 and Mk3 coaches so they do not have a track record of improving existing toolings.

...

 

HST. Twice in fact - the first time using the Lima body instead of their own, then an all-new tooling.

 

Didn't they do a 2BIL in ancient times, replaced with a rather spiffy new tooling?

 

Paul

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35 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 

 

Crikey I thought with the massive price jump on the HST set and with the tooling being a few years old now they had stuck a motor in the other car :unsure:

Will still buy the NR HST Set since I have all 3 Mk3 coaches from last year which I only got this week from Kernow & now pre-ordered the other 2 so this will be my first HST purchase but £260 for 2 loco's & only one powered seems pretty steep even by today's standards...lol I honestly thought the price increases were due to sticking a motor in the dummy car :nono: 

Basically we're paying just over 200 quid for a powered car considering the dummy car would no more expensive than the DVT to make...oh well.

What massive price jump? As the RRP price of the HSTs announced this year is the same as those announced last year such as R3802 (£289.99) why would anything of changed - just another boring dig about pricing?

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35 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Good point.  H are still churning out 16ton minerals on the wrong wheelbased generic chassis from Triang days, and there is an opening here surely for Oxford to undercut Baccy with this very essential wagon for anyone modelling periods 4, 5, 6, 7, and even more recent in industrial use.

 

I'm not sure how massive the market is for RTR 16T minerals given the large range of kits available which are easy to build and the liveries they carried can hardly be described as complex and well within the skills range of the average modeller.

 

RTR POs I can see having more demand due to the more diverse and complex liveries.

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2 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

What massive price jump? As the RRP price of the HSTs announced this year is the same as those announced last year such as R3802 (£289.99) why would anything of changed - just another boring dig about pricing?

 

I'm sorry I should have said over the last 2 years, I remember not so long ago they were up to £230 or below depending if they were a limited edition or not.

Just stating fact and just wondered if they had stuck a motor in the dummy car and if that bores you just move on or just sneer at the screen or whatever else that makes you feel better.

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56 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 

 

Crikey I thought with the massive price jump on the HST set and with the tooling being a few years old now they had stuck a motor in the other car :unsure:

..........this will be my first HST purchase but £260 for 2 loco's & only one powered seems pretty steep even by today's standards...lol I honestly thought the price increases were due to sticking a motor in the dummy car :nono: 

Basically we're paying just over 200 quid for a powered car considering the dummy car would no more expensive than the DVT to make...oh well.


These are m.r.p.’s

Wait and see what the box shifters price them at 3 or 4 months after release.

Prices are what they are, for various reasons long debated on RMweb over the years.

 

There is some merit in your point about price comparisons though.

Comparable quality Hornby diesels from this year’s announcement, are £110 cheaper than the Class 43 train pack (using the m.r.p’s).

That’s effectively £110 for a dummy car, or even a coach + head and tail lights.

Single packaging saves on logistics and marketing costs too.

There is food for thought there.


Note the re-tooled Class 43 locos were announced in the 2008 catalogue, IIRC?
Off the top of my head, they were priced at something like £209.

The box shifters asked around £180’ish ....again from a woolly memory.

A year later, they were being discounted and sold off for between £90 and £110

I bought mine then.

 

Therefore, the m.r.p. has only gone up by something like £80 over 12 years.

An awful lot has changed in the world economy, in China, inflation, exchange rates etc over those 12 years.

 

 

 

Ron

 

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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