Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Ruffnut Thorston]

13 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Caleys were actually just the scale length Mk1 fitted with panelled sides and different roofs (also interiors if they had them, I don't remember). The LMS, GWR and SR versions were identical but for the livery. Everything else was pure BR and they were significantly longer than anything the Southern built pre-Bulleid.

 

The Thompsons were made on the same principle. I've never handled one but always thought it a bit odd they weren't also offered in BR liveries. Was the surface textured to produce the ersatz teak look?

 

The later alleged Maunsells, dating from the "Year of the Coach" weren't just re-liveried GWR ones, though. The roof detail was altered, which I found surprising as they have one-piece body shells. I always thought they were more credible as LSWR Ironclads than Maunsells (and treated my old 3-set as such, especially after I discovered Kirk kits) if only because the brakes have five compartments.  

 

If you are listening, Hornby (or anyone else TBH), a range of "proper" Ironclads (especially the early BR pull-push conversions) would put ticks into most of the remaining boxes on my r-t-r coaching stock "bucket list".

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John...

 

The “Caley” coaches used the same BR CK roof mouldings, but the earlier models had the roofs moulded in white plastic.

 

The later ones had grey roofs, like the BR coaches.

There were no interiors fitted. If a weight was fitted it had to be glued or heat riveted in place, as it is the interiors that hold the weight in place. The same as the BR over long BK, which also had no interior.
 

It was thought that the smaller windows would make the lack of an interior less noticeable, as for the original GWR Clerestory Coaches.

 

The “Thompson” coaches teak finish was made by mixing chemicals to a secret recipe into the plastic.

 

The same method was used on the later Gresley coaches , and on the lineside fences, platform benches, and station name boards for a time...
 

These coaches too were issued without interiors.

 

I have not noticed a texture as such.

 

Yes, it is a pity that BR liveries were not issued on these coaches.

 

I too had noticed the difference in the roofs between the later Hornby Railways SR and GWR Coaches.  Later GWR coaches were fitted with more GWR style Bogies. These coaches are still in the Railroad range.

 

I think that only the LMS coaches of this series ever came out in BR livery?
 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Sarahagain
More added...

[The Johnster]

The Caley coaches were originally to accompany what IIRC was the only Scottish RTR effort at the time, the 123 Single on the LOTI chassis.  They did not have interiors, again IIRC, and I believe the underframes were, as John says, the 10" mk1s.  The ends may have been from these coaches as well.  I thought at the time that LOTI and the shorty clerestories was a brave piece of marketing and the 123 and coaches was also a bit left field for those days.  Both were offered as train sets, loco, 2 coaches, oval of track.  The application of liveries was pretty good for the time.

 

What is perhaps a little surprising is that the Dean Single and it's shorty coaches are still in production with very little improvement.  I presume the Single has a different motor, but I think an opportunity has been missed to upgrade the coaches, which still have no interiors and B1 bogies, not to mention the very basic underframe moulding.  Hornby produce suitable Dean bogies to go under their gangwayed clerestories, which also need retooling to provide moulded panelling, and I see no real reason beyond the 'production run batch' Chinese system of production that these bogies could not be fitted to the shortys.  They were retooled some time ago to the extent of replacing the rivet bogie mounts with plug ins, which also brought the buffer heights down to the correct level.  

 

The eventual purpose of this rambling is to suggest that, assuming the toolings still exist, we might yet see a reintroduction of 123 and the Caley coaches under the Railroad banner, lo-fi standards notwithstanding.  With the LOTI/Shorty reissue, Hornby have form in this market; that nice Mr Kohler is what the Irish call a cute hoor, and is clearly not averse to knocking out 1960s RTR at 2020 prices if he thinks he can make what those same Irish call a wee bobeen.

 

Probably not though; the shorty clerestories have always had a market presence that the Caley coaches lacked because of their amenity to working up and to being cut'n'shut into scale length and different diagram Dean non-gangwayed stock, and of course LOTI is suitable for the gangwayed clerestories.  The shorties are still AFAIK the only RTR attempt at any sort of 19th century bogie non-gangwayed stock, which is why they've been produced in MR and LNER (as ex-NER) liveries.  I believe Mr Kohler reintroduced them because they were commanding prices on 'Bay comparable to his 'brand new' pricing; the Caleys weren't selling for such prices as tbh there's not much you can do with them to work them up or modify them.

 

The first Triang Hornby Thompsons had a textured faux teak finish which precluded their being produced in BR liveries, but the concurrent Colletts and 'Maunsells' were never produced in BR liveries either.  My impression was that the marketing philosophy was still very much embedded in the 1950 train set culture, and that TH never thought of it, or thought that nobody'd buy them!

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

 

I too had noticed the difference in the roofs between the later Hornby Railways SR and GWR Coaches.  Later GWR coaches were fitted with more GWR style Bogies. These coaches are still in the Railroad range.

 

This is correct; later versions of the Colletts, now in the Railroad range, had proper Collett 7' bogies, and the later Thompsons had the correct Gresley bogies, this retooling bringing the buffer height down to the correct level.  AFAIK neither Triang, Triang Hornby, nor Hornby produced any Southern coach with the correct bogies until fairly recently, and the 'psuedo-Maunsells' had B1 bogies.  The original tooling of TH Stanier coaches with silver roofs had B1 bogies and IIRC were never produced in BR livery; the later, current, toolings have correct LMS bogies.  

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The 10 inch MK 1 coaches all had a common underframe unit, which includes the ends and all the underframe details as one moulding. 
 

This same underframe unit was also used on the Caley and Thompson coaches.
 

As far as I know, 123 and the Caley coaches were never actually issued as a train set under Tri-ang Railways or Tri-ang Hornby brands. Though there was a Train Pack in LMS livery by Hornby Railways.

 

The Lord of The Isles did come in Tri-ang Railways Train Sets, and also Train Packs (Presentation Sets of the Loco, Tender, and one or two coaches without track).

 

The RS.48 Set of loco, tender, and three coaches was complete with signal box, signals, level crossing, and track to form an oval with passing loop.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/triang-train-set-Lord-of-the-Isles-rs48-/312267137911
 

The R.640 Presentation Set, of loco, tender, and one coach. No track.

 

https://triangtrains.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/triang-r-640-lord-of-the-isles-export-set-2/

 

There have also been Train Packs under Hornby Railways.

 

The chassis of the Singles has been retooled, and no longer has the Magnahesion traction magnet, using traction tyres on the driving wheels instead, and uses a modern motor, with pick ups on the front bogie. It also now has a DCC 8 pin socket.

 

The short Clerestory coaches used the now discontinued cast buffers with shanks. Other models that also used these buffers have been re released with the current plastic buffer heads inserted into the holes, without buffer shanks.

 

Unless the body has been retooled to incorporate the buffer shanks, the new Railroad versions are likely to be the same.
 

The modern clip on B1 bogies will probably be used.

 

I think that the bogies on the long Clerestory coaches have always been of the clip on type. They may be too long to fit under the short coaches?
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Sarahagain
Typos

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The original Hornby Railways “Stanier” LMS coaches were made in BR Crimson and Cream livery.

 

R.437 and R.438 were earlier issues under Hornby Railways in later 1970s packaging.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1644519769

 

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/Hornby-r437-oo-gauge-br-stanier-coach-m4329-red-cream

 

R.442 and R.443 were later issues under Hornby Railways. These are in 1980s pattern boxes...

 

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/Hornby-r442-r443-oo-gauge-br-maroon-cream-stanier-coaches
 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Sarahagain
More added

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 00:56, The Johnster said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first Triang Hornby Thompsons had a textured faux teak finish which precluded their being produced in BR liveries, but the concurrent Colletts and 'Maunsells' were never produced in BR liveries either.  My impression was that the marketing philosophy was still very much embedded in the 1950 train set culture, and that TH never thought of it, or thought that nobody'd buy them!

 

If you mean the re-liveried Caleys, that is indeed the case, but all the 57' "Year of the Coach" models (1979, wasn't it?) appeared in BR liveries at one time or another.

 

I always considered the whole range something of a missed opportunity to keep up with rising  standards in r-t-r model coaches. Airfix and Mainline had dipped toes in the water and achieved decent sales if the numbers still entering the S/H market almost a half-century later are anything to go by, but TH evidently considered it too cold or too wet...

 

John

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

The difference between Airfix and Hornby Staniers was quantum.  Triang's old 'scale length' mk1s, which weren't bad, were up against Lima and Mainline versions which had no significant advantage other than better printing.  I always thought the Mainline mk1s's windows looked too small, and the Lima sides were horrendously thick.  Hornby responded by making mk1s available in Big 4 liveries; Lima had a brief toedip into this scurrilous activity as well.  Even then, it was still claimed in magazines that the all time best mk1s were Kitmaster, because of the correct flushness of the windows.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The difference between Airfix and Hornby Staniers was quantum.  Triang's old 'scale length' mk1s, which weren't bad, were up against Lima and Mainline versions which had no significant advantage other than better printing.  I always thought the Mainline mk1s's windows looked too small, and the Lima sides were horrendously thick.  Hornby responded by making mk1s available in Big 4 liveries; Lima had a brief toedip into this scurrilous activity as well.  Even then, it was still claimed in magazines that the all time best mk1s were Kitmaster, because of the correct flushness of the windows.

Also; don't forget the Trix Mk1s. Weird scale, somewhere between OO and HO in profile but about right for OO in length IIRC. They came with metal wheels that were always concentric, mounted on pinpoint axles and running in slippery nylon bogies.

 

Consequently, there were few locos that couldn't walk off with a decent rake of them and they were far and away the best-running r-t-r coaches you could get for many a year.

 

John

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The difference between Airfix and Hornby Staniers was quantum.  Triang's old 'scale length' mk1s, which weren't bad, were up against Lima and Mainline versions which had no significant advantage other than better printing.  I always thought the Mainline mk1s's windows looked too small, and the Lima sides were horrendously thick.  Hornby responded by making mk1s available in Big 4 liveries; Lima had a brief toedip into this scurrilous activity as well.  Even then, it was still claimed in magazines that the all time best mk1s were Kitmaster, because of the correct flushness of the windows.

As an impecunious youngster, I got two Tri-ang Mk1 brakes, and two compos, one of each in green and the other pair in crimson and cream. Ten minutes work with a Woolies electrical screwdriver* and I had a four coach rake that was green on one side and crimson/cream on the other - two trains for the price of one. Only works if you have an operating well in the middle of your layout, though...

 

John

 

* The one with the wire-stripper in the handle, remember them? 

[The Johnster]

I liked the Trix Commonwealth bogie for appearance but never had any Trix coaches.  I have heard of their legendary free-running abilities however, and their capacity for finding slopes where you didn't know you had any.  My only Trix model back in the day was a CKD Western, which ran beautifully smoothly but let itself down a little with the superfluous bogie frames.  It had the best headcode lighting I've ever seen on an RTR model.  Being a Western, and significantly taller than the coaching stock anyway in reality, the 3.8mm scale was not an issue.  

 

On the subject of free running stock, the normal RTR standard of this is far higher than in yesteryear, and I have occasionally resorted to glueing small pieces of foam that will rub against the axles of goods brake vans under the van floor, to keep the couplings tight and hold rakes of wagons; my tracklaying is pretty good but some stock finds bits that aren't as level as they should be!  

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

As an impecunious youngster, I got two Tri-ang Mk1 brakes, and two compos, one of each in green and the other pair in crimson and cream. Ten minutes work with a Woolies electrical screwdriver* and I had a four coach rake that was green on one side and crimson/cream on the other - two trains for the price of one. Only works if you have an operating well in the middle of your layout, though...

 

John

 

* The one with the wire-stripper in the handle, remember them? 

Or a BLT... yes, the electrical screwdriver with wire stripper, made of a clear yellow/orangey plastic that reminded me a bit of the barley sugar sweets you used to get before pressurised cabins in aircraft.  My first experience of flying was a package holiday deal to Lido de Jesolo, near Venice, from Heathrow in a Bristol Britannia, on which everybody got a barley sugar before take off and was told to swallow if your ears felt funny.  The aircraft flew through the Alps which was impressive, over the Gross Glockner I think.  Great fun!

 

The screwdriver had a red end that screwed off to replace the continuity test bulb, which IIRC was neon and needed mains voltage to be effective, something I never had the nerve for as a kid.  This red end held in place a chrome plated pen clip so you could keep in your shirt pocket, as if I was the sort of proto-hippie who was ever going to wear a shirt with a pocket...  But I borrowed my dad's for doing stuff on the layout so often that I eventually bought my own.  It's gone the way of all flesh now, but I had it for several decades.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Had my picking / packing list that the new INTERCITY coaches will be with me tomorrow.

 

Better than the October date!

[Colin_McLeod]

My centenary Duchess of Athol arrived yesterday from Trains4U. Well packed by Trains4U and the loco, box and Hornby Dublo style outer sleeve are beautiful and well presented.

 

As I am currently between layouts I have not been able to run it yet, but am looking forward to doing so in the next few weeks.

 

Congratulations Hornby on a brilliant model.

[RyanN91]

On 19/08/2020 at 11:45, Sir TophamHatt said:

Had my picking / packing list that the new INTERCITY coaches will be with me tomorrow.

 

Better than the October date!

The new MK3 INTERCITY coaches? Hopefully the correct tooling was used on the MK3 buffet cars with the roof vents and correct battery boxes etc. 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 22/08/2020 at 00:33, RyanN91 said:

The new MK3 INTERCITY coaches? Hopefully the correct tooling was used on the MK3 buffet cars with the roof vents and correct battery boxes etc. 

Not sure. Here's a couple of photos:

 

 

 

Here it is with one of the old MK3 tooling (top) with the new tool HST and new MK3 (bottom):

 

Interesting that the old tooling has windows indented but the new tooling, they're flush with the sides of the coach.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt

[RyanN91]

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Not sure. Here's a couple of photos:

 

 

 

Here it is with one of the old MK3 tooling (top) with the new tool HST and new MK3 (bottom):

 

Interesting that the old tooling has windows indented but the new tooling, they're flush with the sides of the coach.

Thanks for that! Finally they have used the correct tooling! In 2014 they ballsed up the IC Executive livery BR MK3 buffet carriage. They used the same tooling for the standard open coach and 1st class coach and the same for the BR MK3 INTERCITY swallow BR MK3 buffet cars in 2018.

[TomScrut]

On 06/01/2020 at 09:59, TomScrut said:

I am fairly happy, whilst my wallet probably won't be set on fire.

 

I don't have space for the NMT really, but will be adding to my rake of NR Mk2s.

 

Shame they didn't do a GBRF or DCR 60, not sure the market needs 2 more red DB 60s?

 

I don't need another LNER 800 (although I may swap my pre order) and it's a shame no 802s TBH. Would have had a TPE and Hull Trains one.

 

Well this has aged well.

 

I have ended up with the NMT, both LNER 800s on order (I didn't swap) and chances are I'll end up with one of the DB 60s to pull my steel train 

 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

On 23/08/2020 at 17:52, RyanN91 said:

Thanks for that! Finally they have used the correct tooling! In 2014 they ballsed up the IC Executive livery BR MK3 buffet carriage. They used the same tooling for the standard open coach and 1st class coach and the same for the BR MK3 INTERCITY swallow BR MK3 buffet cars in 2018.

since Rails have cancelled my order and I still want the models, can anyone suggest a supplier that is still taking orders for these. Kernow and Hattons are sold out.

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

since Rails have cancelled my order and I still want the models, can anyone suggest a supplier that is still taking orders for these. Kernow and Hattons are sold out.

 

Is it worth ringing them up?

 

Surely if Rails' orders have been wiped it will mean there is likely to be more for other dealers to order?

 

[Graham108]

12 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

since Rails have cancelled my order and I still want the models, can anyone suggest a supplier that is still taking orders for these. Kernow and Hattons are sold out.

Have you tried Hornby direct?

[Black 5 Bear]

32 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Is it worth ringing them up?

 

Surely if Rails' orders have been wiped it will mean there is likely to be more for other dealers to order?

 

Try Derails, Young Dan is always a good first call.

Top class service and a recommendation from a very satisfied customer.

[TomScrut]

Just now, Black 5 Bear said:

Try Derails, Young Dan is always a good first call.

Top class service and a recommendation from a very satisfied customer.

 

Yes I have been very happy with Derails too

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

50 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Is it worth ringing them up?

 

Surely if Rails' orders have been wiped it will mean there is likely to be more for other dealers to order?

 

I'm thinking this as well- if a big container full of them are floating towards us and a large % were headed for a shop I cannot mention due to over-moderation then all the suppliers "out of stock" may find more stock available!! Cannot find them on Derails website, may e-mail them tomorrow when they open. Hornby want £35 a lump.

[Jenny Emily]

As the Atholl thread was locked, here is a video of the lowest certificate number Atholl:

 

I’m really impressed with this model. My only gripe really is that they underestimated how many to make. Hopefully we might see a rerun as a set with two LMS coaches and an oval of track in the style of the original HD sets. 

[atom3624]

She did look very smooth when running, even if the front LHS steps, in front of the bogie looked misaligned at times.

Paint finish suits it as well.

 

Looks a very nice model.

 

Al.