Hornby 2020 range announcements

[Hilux5972]

18 hours ago, norfolkchinaclay said:

 

Did you get two detail packs for both ends Jim?

 

I’ve just got my 50049 and there was only one bag of detail parts inside with three sections of ploughs just for one end..
 

And no etched nameplates included either.

 

The other example at the shop is the same apparently. Long time since I’ve bought a Hornby loco and not impressed if this is an example of penny pinching..
 

Spoken to Hornby technical department. They couldn’t give me an answer over phone but said they will look into it if I email them the serial number.

 

Least I could get some etched plates from Shawplan/Extreme Etchings.

The last Class 50 I bought many moons ago, R2408 Sir Ed, had a set of ploughs and pipes for both ends. 

[chris37422]

R3888 appears to have (much like the 50 above) snuck in to the shops and largely sold before release. I was fortunate to be offered one at the last minute by a friend so snapped it up. Even the Mrs likes this one!
 

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, chris37422 said:

R3888 appears to have (much like the 50 above) snuck in to the shops and largely sold before release. I was fortunate to be offered one at the last minute by a friend so snapped it up. Even the Mrs likes this one!
 

That does look good.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I don't think Simon K in particular has any real interest in modern image models. 10+ years or so ago, Rail Express used to break the Hornby embargo every year — Hornby must have known, but they did the same the next year and the one after — only reporting "modern image" models, of course…

 

Note when Hornby do their presentations for the new year, the train sets always get mentioned first. Also, AFAIK, the only new-tooling smaller loco announced this year was the standard 2MT, no doubt due to its position in the Wish List poll. The poll's demise makes it less likely we'll see smaller locos from Hornby. I can't help wondering if the range of industrial locos was a carry over from the previous regime…

[Steamport Southport]

41 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I don't think Simon K in particular has any real interest in modern image models. 10+ years or so ago, Rail Express used to break the Hornby embargo every year — Hornby must have known, but they did the same the next year and the one after — only reporting "modern image" models, of course…

 

Note when Hornby do their presentations for the new year, the train sets always get mentioned first. Also, AFAIK, the only new-tooling smaller loco announced this year was the standard 2MT, no doubt due to its position in the Wish List poll. The poll's demise makes it less likely we'll see smaller locos from Hornby. I can't help wondering if the range of industrial locos was a carry over from the previous regime…

 

Don't know much then do you?

 

Rocket.

 

 

These digs by "Modern Image" modellers of some perceived slight ( usually box openers of the lowest order) really do get tedious. Just look at Facebook and Twitter. Hornby don't do "modern"....

 

APT

Class 91

 

No new models blah, blah, blah. 

 

A2/2

A2/3

W1 original

W1 rebuilt

78xxx

Coronation Scot coaches

BR RB

 

How many millions do you think that cost? or is it just an excuse to moan. 

 

Surely you've got better things to moan about like the vast amount of other people in the world at the moment?

 

Many of which couldn't afford new models if they wanted them.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[D9020 Nimbus]

Lots of new models, yes — but (apart from Rocket) nothing smaller. BTW, I'm not moaning at all — there have been plenty of models of interest to me, mostly non-UK prototype — just not Hornby this time round. 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

These digs by "Modern Image" modellers of some perceived slight ( usually box openers of the lowest order) really do get tedious. Just look at Facebook and Twitter. Hornby don't do "modern"....

 

APT

Class 91

 

Is the 91 modern? Yeah they still exist but are about 30 years old. I don't consider most stuff designed in the 80s to be modern.

 

If you're suggesting "modern" is the 50+ year gap between now and the demise of steam then maybe it needs redefining. It's like putting a 9F in the same category as a pre grouping loco, and I am sure most steam fans would take issue with that.

 

Realistically they have very little decent tooling for anything first built post privatisation.

 

Whilst you maybe want to make snobby remarks about the so called "box openers" remember that if it wasn't for them most of the RTR industry would probably be dead, and it is also worth thinking about the fact that pretty much everyone starts out as a box opener.

[Steamport Southport]

On 05/12/2020 at 19:36, big jim said:

Niiiiiice!!

 

 

 

only criticism, would have been nice finished in gloss

 

other than that, love it, it’s actually the only 50 I’ve ever driven 

 

Lovely.

 

 

[scottrains29]

On 15/12/2020 at 14:41, D9020 Nimbus said:

I don't think Simon K in particular has any real interest in modern image models.

My issue is the lack of knowledge about 'modern' stock. Take the popular Virgin HST. Every set needs a mk3 TGS coach yet Hornby still haven't produced one in Virgin HST livery (now 21 years since Hornby released the full length Virgin HST coaches). The TGS they did produce was in loco hauled livery which obviously didn't even exist in real life and looks odd when placed next to HST stock. Over the years Hornby have also produced Virgin HST packs with both loco hauled and HST livered coaches. I don't think they understand the difference.

 

The Hornby Virgin mk2e was another annoyance. Producing the SO and BSO but no RFB to complete the set.

 

This year they produced the Virgin mk2f BSO and FO yet these coaches never actually ran together! Bachmann, on the other hand announced a full set of Virgin mk2f coaches to allow the modeller to recreate an accurate rake.

 

I feel like Hornby have a 'that'll do' attitude to modern image.

 

Another annoyance was the Northern Belle coach pack with new tooling mk2e yet the train pack came with old Airfix mk2d coaches. Some of the train pack coaches are actually meant to be mk2e! As the mk2d/e FO visually look the same there was no reason for Hornby to use the crude Airfix tooling, esp as the mk2e is in the Railroad range so probably doesn't cost any more to produce yet looks far superior and would have matched the coach pack. It would have created a lot more sales.  

 

Hopefully the 2021 range will be a bit more joined up.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

12 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

 

Another annoyance was the Northern Belle coach pack with new tooling mk2e yet the train pack came with old Airfix mk2d coaches. Some of the train pack coaches are actually meant to be mk2e! As the mk2d/e FO visually look the same there was no reason for Hornby to use the crude Airfix tooling, esp as the mk2e is in the Railroad range so probably doesn't cost any more to produce yet looks far superior and would have matched the coach pack. It would have created a lot more sales.  

 

Hopefully the 2021 range will be a bit more joined up.

 

Annoyed me too, but Hornby uses multiple factories in China. So it's quite possible that the Railroad spec (Class 47 and Mk2D) tools are in one factory and then the Mk2E/F which are more modern models are in another factory.

[adb968008]

On 15/12/2020 at 15:21, Steamport Southport said:

 

Don't know much then do you?

 

Rocket.

 

 

These digs by "Modern Image" modellers of some perceived slight ( usually box openers of the lowest order) really do get tedious. Just look at Facebook and Twitter. Hornby don't do "modern"....

 

APT

Class 91

 

No new models blah, blah, blah. 

 

Agreed Rocket is modern image, wasn't it made in 1979 including some from components off a J94 from Walkden Colliery ? (Other bits being used on Jinty 7298).

 

“Modern” Rocket and LMS built coach, in 2004.

 

The rub is, you dont see it very often on the trans-pennine services these days and whilst it might be painted Network Rail yellow, and is quite definitely a research locomotive its not really known for its frequent use. I guess its TOPS number could be 98000.

 

Yes a Rocket is modern image. It is as old as the APT.. both however mean nothing to anyone modelling the National Rail network today nor has anyone without a living memory of being able to visit Steamport Southport (to make it relevant to your username), have they ever been able to see one on one of these on the mainline either.

 

 

“Modern” D2595 after arrival from ELR Bury, next to Birkenhead's last class 03, at Steamport, 30 years ago.

 

its not relevent... its modern in a historical tense, just like these pictures... (32 year old photograph of a “modern” class 24 diesel which had already been withdrawn/preserved 10 years at Steamport when this picture was taken in 1989).

 

Note the “modern” BSO E9356 preserved 1983, recently modelled by Hornby.

 

 

I will support your arguement however, Hornbys most modern locomotive tooled is another chimney.. 60163 Tornado, and thats a decade ago. On that basis I guess 2020 positions us well for this one...

2017 “modern” 2999 Lady of Legend at Didcot.

 

I do think though the OP is looking to model something you might see at your local station, not something that used to be seen at the same time as a Boeing 707 or scrapped before man last walked on the moon.... perhaps “modern” is the wrong word.. “relevant” or “21st Century” might be more appropriate...

 

(As Hornby seems to like grabbing political headlines, perhaps this might be a good candidate to explore.. especially if they released it before TFL does?)

 

unfortunately the chance of a 2020 Transpeninne “Rocket” has already slipped out of Hornbys fingers..

 

 

excuse me, i’ve got some low boxes to open, but they seem to be in the wrong order.

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[big jim]

Post of the day ^

[meatloaf]

Rails have posted on facebook to say the new Hornby peckett is in stock

 

R3640 Peckett W4 'Nicausse' Willans and Robinson 0-4-0 Tank Locomotive No.88 (OO Gauge) by Hornby - Rails of Sheffield

Edited December 18, 2020 by meatloaf

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Agreed Rocket is modern image, wasn't it made in 1979 including some from components off a J94 from Walkden Colliery ? (Other bits being used on Jinty 7298).

“Modern” Rocket and LMS built coach, in 2004.

 

The rub is, you dont see it very often on the trans-pennine services these days and whilst it might be painted Network Rail yellow, and is quite definitely a research locomotive its not really known for its frequent use. I guess its TOPS number could be 98000.

 

Yes a Rocket is modern image. It is as old as the APT.. both however mean nothing to anyone modelling the National Rail network today nor has anyone without a living memory of being able to visit Steamport Southport (to make it relevant to your username), have they ever been able to see one on one of these on the mainline either.

 

“Modern” D2595 after arrival from ELR Bury, next to Birkenhead's last class 03, at Steamport, 30 years ago.

 

its not relevent... its modern in a historical tense, just like these pictures... (32 year old photograph of a “modern” class 24 diesel which had already been withdrawn/preserved 10 years at Steamport when this picture was taken in 1989).

Note the “modern” BSO E9356 preserved 1983, recently modelled by Hornby.

 

 

I will support your arguement however, Hornbys most modern locomotive tooled is another chimney.. 60163 Tornado, and thats a decade ago. On that basis I guess 2020 positions us well for this one...

2017 “modern” 2999 Lady of Legend at Didcot.

 

I do think though the OP is looking to model something you might see at your local station, not something that used to be seen at the same time as a Boeing 707 or scrapped before man last walked on the moon.... perhaps “modern” is the wrong word.. “relevant” or “21st Century” might be more appropriate...

(As Hornby seems to like grabbing political headlines, perhaps this might be a good candidate to explore.. especially if they released it before TFL does?)

 

unfortunately the chance of a 2020 Transpeninne “Rocket” has already slipped out of Hornbys fingers..

 

excuse me, i’ve got some low boxes to open, but they seem to be in the wrong order.

TBH, if I were into "truly modern", I think I'd prefer it to come from elsewhere than Hornby. Both Bachmann and the various "new boys" seem to have a commitment to such subjects that Hornby seldom exhibit.

 

OK, Hornby have produced a handful of beauties, (though only the 56 and 60 are currently active in any numbers). Few of the rest are better than "average".

 

Maybe we're all better off if Hornby stick to their established preferences until they want to change.

 

John

[adb968008]

32 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

TBH, if I were into "truly modern", I think I'd prefer it to come from elsewhere than Hornby. Both Bachmann and the various "new boys" seem to have a commitment to such subjects that Hornby seldom exhibit.

 

OK, Hornby have produced a handful of beauties, (though only the 56 and 60 are currently active in any numbers). Few of the rest are better than "average".

 

Maybe we're all better off if Hornby stick to their established preferences until they want to change.

 

John

To be fair to Hornby they are very capable, those new Coronation coaches look fantastic. The metal boilered 2MT does too. Rocket is hard to fault as is the H class, Coronation and Princess. (Though wheel tyres still need improvement).

 

Maybe give that designer a promotion to “modern” image and let him loose to see what he can do ? 

Edited December 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

59 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

To be fair to Hornby they are very capable, those new Coronation coaches look fantastic. The metal boilered 2MT does too. Rocket is hard to fault as is the H class, Coronation and Princess. (Though wheel tyres still need improvement).

 

Maybe give that designer a promotion to “modern” image and let him loose to see what he can do ? 

Agreed, and with steam subjects, they regularly excel. All their SR 4-6-0s are superb and the extent of (correct) variations in the Adams Radials goes way beyond anything I ever expected to be offered in a r-t-r loco.

 

However, when it comes to "modern" subjects, so much of their output has been "mid-fi" which suggests they think their customer base for such products has "red lines" on prices, which Bachmann's clientele perhaps don't.

 

Hornby seem to keep to a  lower "per vehicle" average with longer units like the 800 and APT, than Bachmann, though maybe the Blue Pullman was a special case.

 

They, and others, clearly have higher ceilings in, but maybe they don't expect to sell in the sort of quantities Hornby aim to?

 

John 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

They, and others, clearly have higher ceilings in, but maybe they don't expect to sell in the sort of quantities Hornby aim to?

Maybe thats the issue.

With steam they can predict what 1 run will sell.. but then the tooling will be largely redundant into the future as the market is sold, with perhaps 1 or 2 more releases.

 

Certainly K1, S15, 71, Radial, King, Streamline Duchess  all look like they are saturated in the market with discounts coming common.

 

Once the APT and Coronation Scot coaches are sold, I doubt theres much future there either, same to the W1, A2/1 etc.. no future.

The problem for all these is history is written. The book is closed. Once the modeller has bought 1, maybe 2.. thats it gap filled.

 

What trick is missed is modern image has a future. Whilst a class 195 today has two liveries, comes in 2 car, 3 car or EMU.. that market I admit maybe smaller than a 2MT... but it will be here for 40 more years, a good tooling wont be challenged, and if UK, rail history has a future there will be new liveries at least every 5 years, and specials, which means a steady stream of business for 5 decades. Just look at the 156.. at least 20 liveries.. and its still only mid-life... i’d wager Hornbys had more out of the single car 153 than the J50.

 

if I were an investor into the future, i’d be wanting to see a range full of future potential, ongoing r&d, not a set of once used twice baked tooling thats going to cost money to store & maintain that may or may not get used again.

 

You can only drink unicorns blood and suck half life with each drink until the returns are too small to survive.. With anything 1948-1968 (inc diesels) I think we are already there.. pretty soon they will have to start tooling “what might have beens” and buying a copy of “locomotives that never were” for steam inspiration, theres only so many little black 0-6-0 goods and modelling the obscure steam classes people can take... after w1, whats left ? Streamline p2, 6202.. then what.. 6399, GER Decapod, 111, La France and Paget, perhaps a BR Std 2-8-2 really  ?

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

I think all tooling offers the possibility for further use. What Hornby have got spectacularly wrong, on a number of occasions, is scheduling the second and subsequent releases.

 

That has especially been the case with black engines, notably the S15, J15 and the GW 8-coupled tanks. All these are as essential in their contexts as a Stanier 5 or 8, and nobody would suggest those should disappear after a single run BUT everything (Mallard and Flying Scotsman probably excepted) needs to be rested from to time.

 

Hornby now have enough high grade tooling to allow everything to be dropped for at least one year after being in the catalogue for two.

 

The third tranche of S15s was released within 9 months of the first and I was able to get one at a 40% discount when all the earlier ones were still readily obtainable. That's far too soon, however good the model. Just plain daft! I think the same happened with the 72xx and I got one of those too.

 

John

 

 

[adb968008]

19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I think all tooling offers the possibility for further use. What Hornby have got spectacularly wrong, on a number of occasions, is scheduling the second and subsequent releases.

 

That has especially been the case with black engines, notably the S15, J15 and the GW 8-coupled tanks. All these are as essential in their contexts as a Stanier 5 or 8, and nobody would suggest those should disappear after a single run BUT everything (Mallard and Flying Scotsman probably excepted) needs to be rested from to time.

 

Hornby now have enough high grade tooling to allow everything to be dropped for at least one year after being in the catalogue for two.

 

The third tranche of S15s was released within 9 months of the first and I was able to get one at a 40% discount when all the earlier ones were still readily obtainable. That's far too soon, however good the model. Just plain daft! I think the same happened with the 72xx and I got one of those too.

 

John

 

 

I’m not sure I agree, for two reasons..

 

1. Supply.

Traditional business model of tooling a new release, make the odd livery, available for a few years then rest it until it becomes rare and make it again...

It’s outdated thinking, pre-internet.

when the s/h market was a local model shop and finding your desire involves months of searching and random luck at a show. It gives a false perception of rare, and hard to find, making a new re-release coveted.

Today Ebay gives all.. 24/7.. the 2020 definition of rare is “lowest price plus postage and packing”, from anywhere in the UK, Europe or Worldwide. There will always be one turning up every week, if there aren't 10 already listed.

They might well make less models in a run in 2020 than 1980, but consumer supply is easier to find.
 

2. Demand.

 

I've got 3 K1’s it is a great model.
But i’m full. I dont need any more, in 9 months or in 9 years...

Those who model Thornaby shed will have bought several.
Those who collect one of each will also have done the same.

 

Even if rested for 2-3 years, it will come back 20-30% more than original rrp, which increases the resistance... and competes to new toolings for a share of the wallet.

 

Ive already got my 3 so i’m ok. The only reason for number 4 is a price drop, but chances are i’ll down size to 2 before I increase to 4 in the future to make space for another new exciting tooling. Others will cherish their loco for decades, others still will renumber / kit bash.. but...

the gap is filled, bar a few low volume cracks every now again.
 

same applies to this months 1532, unless magically a full size 1532 arises from a barn, returns to steam and excites everyone, the chapter of the real prototype is closed, history is complete, so once people have it.. their books are closed to... Harder still if Henry Ford rules on colour applies to the prototype.

 

My conclusion.

 

Model railway aren't consumable, with one or two exceptions, they are fashion items, with a life span of which can last 40+ years. Mazak rot would be a good thing for manufacturers if they could get away with it.

 

if you want to beat that, you need something that can adapt to fashion, to encourage people to drop their old and buy new... applying fresh paint is a much cheaper way than cutting metal every year... but equally that paint needs to reflect chapters in a book that excite..its harder to do that if the history book is already closed.

 

Thats why imho often 2nd runs are shelf magnets, 9 months or 3 years later... it needs an open history book.

 

Lets see how a second run of 1532’s would stand up to a second run of TPE 68’s.. both colourful, but one whos chapter is closed the other is a new book., I will even guess the same about DRS 57009.. imho a bad choice, its history book is closed, 57002 or 57003 would excite more, modern image is more focused to a tip than older prototype classes, but predict a sell out on the WCRC example.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

I fully get that current traction will receive liveries as yet undreamt of whereas anything no longer in service is effectively a closed book.

 

That said, the closed book contains far more different classes of potential subject than the total number of new locomotives built post-BR. There is clear movement towards covering locomotives that don't conform to the long-standing dictum for rtr of survival into the late 1950s and, as more such locomotives are produced, the opportunity opens up for coaches and wagons to go with them.

 

Provision of model of truly modern subjects will undoubtedly thrive, fuelled in part by the growing fascination for electronic lighting and sound which, for some, seems to have become a hobby within a hobby.

 

We can expect gaps of several years between production runs of the more "niche" steam outline locos, but the popular ones, which have been continuously produced throughout the two decades since Hornby "got good" probably aren't going anywhere.

 

I only have 35 Bulleid Pacifics, and four more awaiting renaming, so there's 91 more for Hornby to do just for me....

 

John

[Paul.Uni]

10 minutes ago, D1051 said:

i notice the sneaky corner glimpse of 2021 catalogue on the kernow website of what looks like a BR standard .Any ideas if said loco will appear in 2021 range?  http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/69765/Catalogue---Hornby-67th-Edition-2021-Item-ref-R8160

 

Already discussed in the 2021 hopes and/or the advent calendar thread(s), we came to the conclusion that it is probably a new version of 1971 catalogue cover, which featured Evening Star.

[Dunsignalling]

16 minutes ago, D1051 said:

i notice the sneaky corner glimpse of 2021 catalogue on the kernow website of what looks like a BR standard .Any ideas if said loco will appear in 2021 range?  http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/69765/Catalogue---Hornby-67th-Edition-2021-Item-ref-R8160

 

They already do it. Evening Star.

[brushman47544]

32 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

Already discussed in the 2021 hopes and/or the advent calendar thread(s), we came to the conclusion that it is probably a new version of 1971 catalogue cover, which featured Evening Star.

It does look like it, in which case perhaps it’s a 43xx being announced based on the Churchward cab behind...

Edited December 19, 2020 by brushman47544

[Corbs]

On 18/12/2020 at 14:32, adb968008 said:

Agreed Rocket is modern image, wasn't it made in 1979 including some from components off a J94 from Walkden Colliery ? (Other bits being used on Jinty 7298).

 

 

I know it's not really the topic but I think it was 'Iron Duke' which used some parts (cylinders and motion possibly) from Austerities including 'Respite'. I don't know what WD parts Rocket would have used. 

https://ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/hunslet-3696-1950-respite/

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/82/iron-duke

Edited December 20, 2020 by Corbs

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, D1051 said:

looking at the steps attached to buffer beam id say a BR standard 

a western region view ?Why do a repro 1971 cover ?

Cos it's fifty years ago in 2021?

 

The pic appears  to be of the Cuneo painting that appeared on that edition. However, others have pointed out that it has either been doctored or there is more than one version  of the original.

 

John

Edited December 20, 2020 by Dunsignalling