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Hornby 2020 range announcements


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19 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

The most visual difference is that the HST coaches all had silver window frames, the loco ones were just body coloured. It's quite a noticeable feature when you compare them side by side, especially in model form!

 

Hornby have produced the Virgin HST (silver window frame) coaches in train packs and separately in standard, first and buffet form. That's why it's so frustrating when they then produced the missing TGS in loco hauled colours target than HST colours. I think it not only didn't have silver window but actually had smaller stripes and Virgin logos compared to their other Virgin HST coaches.

These errors should have been avoided had Hornby bothered to compare the coaches with their previous examples.

Every day a school day, I've just checked by hitting a few random Class 87 numbers into Flickr and they did indeed paint the frames on WCML loco hauled Mk3's. The answer to your TGS issue is a silver metallic marker pen, far easier to control than paint and something I use to silver the frames after Mk3 repaints anyway.

 

Regarding the logos- there were two variations on HST (I'm not going to speak for the LHCS Mk3's now!!) as early versions had "Virgin XC" with the words Cross Country written through the XC. This was changed to slightly larger plain Virgin logos after a handful of sets had been painted, although at the time the HSTs were separated by home depot and formation type they did later mix around, especially so post Voyager introduction so the switch to non-route specific logos was in retrospect a wise one. The kit-kat stripes should certainly have been the same across all vehicles, power cars, locos and trailer vehicles of all flavours- but then we expect Hornby to cock it up then as they do now. If its any consolation they did something similar when they brought out the FGW "Barbie" TGS some years after the rest of the Barbie vehicles, it's from a different rake and has the later style of half blue, half white door which sounds like a quick fix until you see there is a colour fade across the bottom of the door.

 

 

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I must admit... all the items Hornby's announced and released is quite impressive.  The W1 really surprised me for a number of reasons... and did anyone else spot not a single super detail A3 or A4 in the range?  Thought those were the staple trademark of that range.
Little did I know my advice sent via email to Hornby on a retool on the A3 and the A4 might be taken seriously.  I'd had a number of issues with the current super detail tooling of the A4 in particular.  I'd criticized the valve gear and tenders most on the tooling.  The crosshead was a rather ungainly sight on the gresley pacifics.  When Hornby's Tornado was released, the crosshead was properly modeled, which I thought would carry over to the other gresley engines but never happened.  That is the main problem I had with the Hornby tooling on the A4 engines along with the hinge rivet detailing lacking on the cods mouth door.  The tenders are almost unacceptably poor as well.  The interior of the bunker and water filler area is lacking a massive wealth of detail.  There should be bracings, rivets, ribbing, supports and a flange on the rear bunker arch.

What intrigued me is that every single critique of the A4 engine applied to the rebuilt W1... down to the crosshead swap from the Tornado tooling.  The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

Just some fuel for though for the possibilities of what we may see in the 2021, 2022 range...

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When I spoke to Simon Kohler , he was keen to point out they are interested in “ modern image “ ( and god  knows I’m not getting into what constitutes modern ), they came up trumps with the DB 60 in better numbers to increase supply and that’s an easy pick becuase they go everywhere .

 

I think they have to be careful what they choose these days , I thought they were brave making those dull green snakes that inhabit my local GWML , but I’m guessing enough people got one ?

 

Id rather they had done the Thames turbo myself as that has a longer pedigree and blue box seem to have lost interest .

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5 hours ago, gregpokes1/Camden said:

The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

 

Could they not nick the W1 tender for the A3/4 then?

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3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

are interested in “ modern image “ ( and god  knows I’m not getting into what constitutes modern )

 

Yes I certainly think that definition is a bit dodgy!

 

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

they came up trumps with the DB 60 in better numbers to increase supply and that’s an easy pick becuase they go everywhere .

 

They did, and plenty more 60s to go at too, 2 GBRF liveries (3 if you include debranded Colas) and 2 DC ones for a start. I had intended buying Stainless Pioneer but I got a TTS removed Dowlow for a good price so I aren't rushing for another red one.

 

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think they have to be careful what they choose these days , I thought they were brave making those dull green snakes that inhabit my local GWML , but I’m guessing enough people got one ?

 

Dull snakes or not they are essential if doing that region in current day. I have 2 of their sibling white and red snakes on order and would have their blue, purple and grey cousin on order if they made it. But I like them....

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5 hours ago, gregpokes1/Camden said:

I must admit... all the items Hornby's announced and released is quite impressive.  The W1 really surprised me for a number of reasons... and did anyone else spot not a single super detail A3 or A4 in the range?  Thought those were the staple trademark of that range.
Little did I know my advice sent via email to Hornby on a retool on the A3 and the A4 might be taken seriously.  I'd had a number of issues with the current super detail tooling of the A4 in particular.  I'd criticized the valve gear and tenders most on the tooling.  The crosshead was a rather ungainly sight on the gresley pacifics.  When Hornby's Tornado was released, the crosshead was properly modeled, which I thought would carry over to the other gresley engines but never happened.  That is the main problem I had with the Hornby tooling on the A4 engines along with the hinge rivet detailing lacking on the cods mouth door.  The tenders are almost unacceptably poor as well.  The interior of the bunker and water filler area is lacking a massive wealth of detail.  There should be bracings, rivets, ribbing, supports and a flange on the rear bunker arch.

What intrigued me is that every single critique of the A4 engine applied to the rebuilt W1... down to the crosshead swap from the Tornado tooling.  The tenders are also completely retooled... which, if done as I'd have thought them to do with no retooling, would have robbed the super detail tooling for the A3s and A4s.  These tenders have the added ribbing, riveting, and bracing inside the bunker and water filler areas as I'd suggested.

Just some fuel for though for the possibilities of what we may see in the 2021, 2022 range...

With all the new big LNER locos in the programme, that haven't been done before, resting the A3 and A4 was to be expected. They've sold so many of each over the years that any established user must have at dozens of them by now, probably in excess of my 35 Bulleid Pacifics!

 

With all the different stuff on offer, who would buy more of the same?

 

Question is, will Hornby continue to concentrate on things Eastern in 2021. As an (almost) exclusively Southern modeller, the only ER loco that might interest me would be 'Kingfisher', which visited a couple of times on railtours.

 

Will there be anything for me? Hopefully a couple of air-smoothed MNs in 1956-59 condition once Hornby have got the malachite and blue liveries out of their system. Maybe something smaller and new, too? If not, I'll have the funds available for a load more of the new Bachmann Bulleid coaches than anticipated.

 

John

 

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2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

With all the other big LNER locos in the programme, that haven't been done before, renting the A3 and A4 was to be expected. They've sold so many of each over the years that any established user must have at least a dozen of each by now.

 

With so much they haven't already got on offer, who would buy more of the same?

 

And with Sir Walter K Wingham and Mallard in BR still in shops from last year, and Sir Nigel Gresley as a new release in the train set (which is the super detail AFAIK) it's not like they aren't available.

 

I also expect RR (where Mallard and Flying Scotsman are done) being the biggest market for those particular locos.

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33 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I certainly think that definition is a bit dodgy!

 

 

They did, and plenty more 60s to go at too, 2 GBRF liveries (3 if you include debranded Colas) and 2 DC ones for a start. I had intended buying Stainless Pioneer but I got a TTS removed Dowlow for a good price so I aren't rushing for another red one.

 

 

Dull snakes or not they are essential if doing that region in current day. I have 2 of their sibling white and red snakes on order and would have their blue, purple and grey cousin on order if they made it. But I like them....

True, but then again the Thames turbo and its chiltern cousin would be essential if you were modelling those lines for the past 30 ish years. But as these modern units get passed about, and spawn other orders for similar they’ve future proofed themselves I guess 

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7 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

True, but then again the Thames turbo and its chiltern cousin would be essential if you were modelling those lines for the past 30 ish years. But as these modern units get passed about, and spawn other orders for similar they’ve future proofed themselves I guess 

 

Yes and I think that at the moment there wouldn't be many complaints of more units being done anyway! At the moment people can make fantastic models of a model railway that almost looks real yet the stock that runs over them probably 75% during the daytime is unavailable because most people seem more interested in freight.

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Looking at some of the older catalogue covers they seem to have items on them as art rather than future/current items.  An example was the 1975 cover with an EB Wilson Jenny Lind on it.  

Jenny_Lind_1847,_Hornby_Railways_catalog

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20 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

I would agree that Simon Kohler /Hornby are interested in ‘Modern image’, just that for them it means something closer to the current scene. The BR blue era seems to pass them by.

As it does for many modellers, as an example the toy/model shops near here in Weymouth, Dorchester and Bridport are not bad for basics and have a wide range of kits across multi-genres but in the r-t-r railway section rarely stock diesels/electrics being steam only. If the demand was there I guess they would have them in stock.

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On 24/12/2020 at 12:27, brushman47544 said:

I would agree that Simon Kohler /Hornby are interested in ‘Modern image’, just that for them it means something closer to the current scene. The BR blue era seems to pass them by.

Given that it immediately succeeded the age of steam, I'd question whether the BR blue era can any longer be truly described  as "modern".

 

John

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It can't, really, but Cyril Freezer's coining of the term — when it really was modern image — seems to have stayed with us. Seems to cause difficulties for those who really are modelling "modern image". Doesn't seem to have an equivalent in other countries, as far as I can tell. Bachmann's "era" system — modelled on that used in continental Europe (especially Germany) though with different numbers — doesn't seem to have caught on with the general modelling public.

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The Bachmann era system hasn't caught on because it is wholly inadequate for the British scene, where, for instance, on say the LNER, there were striking differences between the periods 1923-9, 1930-41, 1941-46, and 46/47. Regarding these four periods as one era is a hopeless over-simplification that would tend to invite the uninformed, if treating the era system as gospel, to depict things in a very unrealistic and quite impossible way.

The other three big groups had distinct changes of flavour over the course of time too, maybe not too obviously on the GWR, but certainly on the LMS and to some extent on the Southern.

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On 18/12/2020 at 19:39, adb968008 said:

What trick is missed is modern image has a future. Whilst a class 195 today has two liveries, comes in 2 car, 3 car or EMU.. that market I admit maybe smaller than a 2MT... but it will be here for 40 more years, a good tooling wont be challenged, and if UK, rail history has a future there will be new liveries at least every 5 years, and specials, which means a steady stream of business for 5 decades. Just look at the 156.. at least 20 liveries.. and its still only mid-life... i’d wager Hornbys had more out of the single car 153 than the J50.

But, even though steam hasn't been mainstream since I was a mere baby, it's still what children think of when they think of a locomotive, watch Thomas, go to a heritage railway etc. Steam 'lives', it has presence and passion. People may travel on modern trains out of necessity, but does it imbue the same passion? I think kettles will continue to sell for a long while more, while the more modern stuff is the niche of aficionados. I might be wrong, it happens, but both H and B seem to consider that there's a future for steam models.

 

6 hours ago, gr.king said:

The Bachmann era system hasn't caught on because it is wholly inadequate for the British scene, where, for instance, on say the LNER, there were striking differences between the periods 1923-9, 1930-41, 1941-46, and 46/47. Regarding these four periods as one era is a hopeless over-simplification that would tend to invite the uninformed, if treating the era system as gospel, to depict things in a very unrealistic and quite impossible way.

The other three big groups had distinct changes of flavour over the course of time too, maybe not too obviously on the GWR, but certainly on the LMS and to some extent on the Southern.

The problem with any categorisation system is how broad/narrow you set the thresholds. Broader gives fewer pigeon holes, but some leeway within them, narrower gives greater finesse but also complexity. Overall, I think B's attempt is pragmatic, those seeking greater finesse are probably more likely, and better suited, to fill in the blanks.

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Rather than an era system, why not just put the years on the box... ie period 1959-1967.

 

There is afterall only one “1976” (ignoring 1976 BC which would be a more stone age style of modelling).

 

People will make their own choices on date ranges anyway.

 

I find it interesting reading above, of eras of “periods 1923-9, 1930-41, 1941-46, and 46/47” yet 1968-2020 is considered ok to be 1 era.

 

You could apply an argument that 1964-68, 68-71,72-79,80-82,83-84,85-87,88-94,94-97,97-00,01-03,04-09,10-13,14-17,18-20 are all different “modern” eras, given the wide changes in withdrawals, new liveries and new fleets introduced... afterall anyone modelling after Dec 2020 wouldnt include a Pacer, yet its the same era as Kestrel, the first HST, a HST named Hayabusa (Kestrel in Japanese) and the IEP that replaced all that history.

 

 

 

 

 

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Confusingly, Hornby also have an era system, but the numbers/eras appear to be different!

 

But I absolutely agree that it would be much simpler to just say e.g. 1925-1941 or whatever the period was, primarily for two reasons:

 

1) It's more easily understood, especially for those new to the hobby or buying a present for someone else.

2) Locos and liveries often overlapped eras. For example, not all Big Four locos were painted into BR colours on New Year's Day 1948. Some GWR locos (and not all in obscure locations!) kept their company lettering into the 1960s and I daresay the same happened on other regions as well.

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10 hours ago, truffy said:

 

The problem with any categorisation system is how broad/narrow you set the thresholds. Broader gives fewer pigeon holes, but some leeway within them, narrower gives greater finesse but also complexity. Overall, I think B's attempt is pragmatic, those seeking greater finesse are probably more likely, and better suited, to fill in the blanks.

 

I've always thought that the best attempt at dating models was the one Airfix/GMR used, listing the date the prototype or livery first appeared with a "+" acknowledging that withdrawals or repainting generally happened over protracted timescales. e.g. BR "early/late crest" on locos where there were some locos still running with the former after some others with the latter had been withdrawn. 

 

Given that inserting a model that is too "new" is the easiest anachronism to commit, it solved many problems, whilst encouraging potential users to investigate further if they thought it necessary/were that bothered.

 

Post-privatisation should, in theory, be easier territory for "eras" but, in practice, two factors make it perhaps even more of a minefield. [1] Units were/are generally reliveried over a few months rather than several years. [2] TOC franchises changed hands at different times, creating differing overlaps with others. For some periods, that makes modelling an area/period where two TOCs operated tricky and one where there were three or more to be seen, almost impossible without getting something wrong.

 

My "thing" is BR Southern Region (ex-LSWR, not electrified) with the period set at 1957-62, and accept there are bound to be minor infractions! However, the big problem is Bulleid Light Pacifics, which were all rebuilt during that time. I therefore invented a Rule 0, which trumps Rule1, and states that I don't acquire any models of locos that got rebuilt in non-rebuilt condition. That neatly sidesteps the most "nonsensical" combinations that could arise. Thus, Hornby's "Exeter" or "Camelford" are "off-side", where "Bideford" is OK.

 

I haven't yet got any air-smoothed MNs, but I'm planning to pick examples that stayed that way to at least the second half of 1958 and avoid having those locos in rebuilt condition.

 

John

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10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

yet 1968-2020 is considered ok to be 1 era.

 

Or in some cases, and TBH I aren't sure who uses what system, but obviously present day is era 11 in some people's book, which is fine by me it covers about 6 years IIRC.

 

I think that the system that stops at 9, where anything post privatisation is all the same era is daft. The only things I can think of post privatisation that are near as dammit the same now is some EWS stuff that will either have been debranded or had a DB label slapped on it. I don't even think there will be much on the network (relatively speaking) in the same state as it was in 2010.

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

without getting something wrong

 

Yes, my example is that I base by stock on present day around York. In all likelihood I'll end up compromising on a couple of technicalities.

 

Northern DMUs, I'll either end up branded and debranded together or not in quite the correct time. I'm also getting a RT 156 which 156s aren't common in York AFAIK, most of the work seems to be 150s, 155s, 158s, 170s and 195s.

 

Also I will end up compromising now I have decided to order a Hornby 91, as 91118 is withdrawn but is correct livery wise for present day.

 

I am thinking I need to set my date to 2020 anyway or have more compromise going forwards as if NR/Colas are thinking about more HST power cars on test trains then my 37s may be going out of relevance soon in real life! I'd rather have my 37s than be looking at present day!

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I didn't used to worry too much about the stock I bought. It was mainly 'if I like it' or 'it's similar to what I remember (but remembering and what was reality may or may not be vaguely similar)' or 'oooh looky looky nicey nicey'. What it has meant is that I could run any period between say 1930 to 2019 (in limited numbers).

 

However, having lurked on here for a while AND finding that finances are more limited, I confess to have become more discerning in what I buy - trouble is - do I stick to 'kettles' or do I go more modern as I really like block train workings of today (some would consider 'boring!' as very samey).

 

Hornby (or any manufacturer) really have to ensure that whatever they offer, must be pretty much perfect to make me part with my cash - acceptable level of detail, correct outline, 21-pin chips and lighting where applicable.

 

My two pennorth,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes, my example is that I base by stock on present day around York. In all likelihood I'll end up compromising on a couple of technicalities.

 

Northern DMUs, I'll either end up branded and debranded together or not in quite the correct time. I'm also getting a RT 156 which 156s aren't common in York AFAIK, most of the work seems to be 150s, 155s, 158s, 170s and 195s.

 

Also I will end up compromising now I have decided to order a Hornby 91, as 91118 is withdrawn but is correct livery wise for present day.

 

I am thinking I need to set my date to 2020 anyway or have more compromise going forwards as if NR/Colas are thinking about more HST power cars on test trains then my 37s may be going out of relevance soon in real life! I'd rather have my 37s than be looking at present day!

If you are going to constantly keep up with the scene right now then you've got more money to spend than most people on the hobby! Since this time last year alone ALL your Pacers, any Arriva branded Northern stuff and most Stagecoach-group livery East Midlands Railway vehicles have all become redundant and even if you took delivery of a full whack set of LNER Mk4's and a pair of 91's (LNER and "For the fallen") they would also be on a one-way trip to the fiddle yard before long...

 

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38 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

If you are going to constantly keep up with the scene right now then you've got more money to spend than most people on the hobby! Since this time last year alone ALL your Pacers, any Arriva branded Northern stuff and most Stagecoach-group livery East Midlands Railway vehicles have all become redundant and even if you took delivery of a full whack set of LNER Mk4's and a pair of 91's (LNER and "For the fallen") they would also be on a one-way trip to the fiddle yard before long...

 

 

I have only been back in the hobby a year or so, so not much has changed.

 

As I said though the branding on a Northern DMU is a compromise I am willing to make.

 

At the moment as the stuff I have I have bought over the last year and so is all current or almost current I have the luxury of not being committed to anything. I can either try and maintain being current or freeze in 2020. I am leaning towards the latter as there is quite a bit of stuff I quite like going out of the equation, including the 91 and Pacers, without anything coming in that I know about that will be wanting me to keep at it.

 

I do expect though a lot of people pick a period of a few years and as long as it's within that period it doesn't really matter?

 

It is also worthy noting most things have a fairly decent residual value if they are recent models, so keeping the ball rolling by selling "obsolete" stock  to be replaced by other current stock probably isn't more expensive than amassing loads of stuff from the same period in history, which is what I thought most people do.

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