Loksound v5 Low Volume - Sugarcube + EM1

[Sofisticat]

I am hoping someone can shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with a recent install of a Loksound v5 using Legomanbiffo CLass 37 Boness sounds.

 

The Loksound v5 was supplied with an 11 x 15 sugarcube which has been mounted under the roof fan, which I have used in conjunction with an EM1 mounted facing downwards in the fuel tanks. The sugarcube has been built to it's maximum depth using the supplied spacers and is fully sealed. I did try the loco with just the sugarcube installed to ensure the enclosure was fully sealed and did not hiss. Although perfectly acceptable on it's own, I do prefer the rumble of the EM1.

 

The result is quiet to say the least, to the point that as the loco gains speed, the noise of the wheels on track overwhelms the sound from the speakers.

I have done a previous install using the same technique of an EM1 in the tanks combined with another speaker under the roof fan on a Loksound v4 with the Wensleydale version of sounds. With the EM1 in the tanks, it really does growl and I have to lower the volume so it doesn't shake the ballast loose on the club layouts.

 

Reading all the CVs in JMRI showed a master volume of 172, this was increased to 192, but it failed to make any noticeable difference.

 

Does anyone have any helpful tips on what to look for to resolve this issue.

[Sofisticat]

Hello Richard

 

Thanks for the quick response. I have wired the speakers up in series, which I thought was the prescribed method of using the EM1 due to it only being 1/2 watt.

 

I don't know what the resistance of the supplied ESU sugarcube is and assumed it was 4 ohms. I will break out the meter this afternoon and double check that. If you think it is safe to use the EM1 in parallel with the sugarcube I will give that a try.

 

What you say does make a lot of sense. I did also try pairing an EM1 with the standard Hornby TTS speaker (sealed which reduced the hiss)  on their Valenta chip. The dummy car which had the TTS speaker and EM1 wired in series was a lot quieter than the powered car with just the TTS speaker in, but the overall sound quality was much improved. I really need to pluck up the courage to start hacking things up and squeezing the EM2s I have sat on the shelf in to some locos.

 

David

 

[Sofisticat]

I have checked the sugarcube speaker as supplied with the Loksound V5 and it measured as ~7.2 Ohms, so 8 Ohms given the accuracy of the meter. I will get my hammer out tonight and change them from series to parallel and report back what the result is.

[Albie the plumber]

21 hours ago, Sofisticat said:

Hello Richard

 

Thanks for the quick response. I have wired the speakers up in series, which I thought was the prescribed method of using the EM1 due to it only being 1/2 watt.

 

I don't know what the resistance of the supplied ESU sugarcube is and assumed it was 4 ohms. I will break out the meter this afternoon and double check that. If you think it is safe to use the EM1 in parallel with the sugarcube I will give that a try.

 

What you say does make a lot of sense. I did also try pairing an EM1 with the standard Hornby TTS speaker (sealed which reduced the hiss)  on their Valenta chip. The dummy car which had the TTS speaker and EM1 wired in series was a lot quieter than the powered car with just the TTS speaker in, but the overall sound quality was much improved. I really need to pluck up the courage to start hacking things up and squeezing the EM2s I have sat on the shelf in to some locos.

 

David

 

You won't regret it in most cases but its always worth wiring an EM2 and placing it under the bodyshell

to test how good the sound is before taking a hacksaw to the chassis block .

Some sound projects out there will not always exploit the benefits of the EM2 

[Sofisticat]

I've never heard the EM2s except on Youtube, where the sound experience is masked by the quality of recording and playback equipment. I am aware of their reputation and so have 2 sat here waiting to go into some of the class 37s which are in the queue for sound fitting. I need to get my hands on a milling machine or a Dremmel to do so.

 

This afternoon, I have disconnected the EM1 from the chip and just used the standard Loksound sugarcube which is hugely disappointing. The volume is still low even at the max setting of ~192, not enough growl and it is easily over powered by the EM1 in another class 37 as it passes. It's a bit of a shame as I hacked the fuel tanks out on a limited edition Bachmann 37501, so not a job for the foolhardy.

 

I seem to be getting conflicting information when I rummage around t'internet on what is acceptable with regards to min/max Ohms and Watts on the Loksounds. I know Richard said to put them the sugarcube and EM1 in parallel, but when do the calculation, it seemed to be that the EM1 (rated at 0.5W max) would be over powered due to the manner of power distribution of the circuit for the speakers, so I chickened out.

 

Using the site "https://www.speakerimpedance.co.uk/":

EM1 = 0.5W max, 4 Ohms

Sugarcube = ??W max, 8Ohms

Loksound V5 = 3 W amplifier

 

Series

Total Impedance = 12 Ω
EM1 = 1 Watts
Sugarcube = 2 Watts

 

Parrallel

Total Impedance = 2.6666666666667 Ω
EM1 = 2 Watts
Sugarcube = 1 Watts

 

Now, I am stumbling about in the dark here and understand that Charlie, Legomanbiffo, Richard, et al on this site have far greater knowledge but can anyone confirm if the calculations above look correct, or if the Loksound V5 documentation might say 3W amp, but isn't, or if the impedance and wattage(?) of the circuits are right, or if I am looking at the far end of a fart and should in fact just say meh.

 

I was really happy with the Loksound V4 combined with the EM1 in the tanks and the standard speaker supplied under the roof fan. Running it today at the club it brought a smile to my face.

[Hamburger]

3 hours ago, Sofisticat said:

. . ,.  but can anyone confirm if the calculations above look correct, or if the Loksound V5 documentation might say 3W amp, . . . 

Please take into account that the Amp would not deliver the 3W  at 12 Ohms load.

It is not a linear function, so I would expect something between 1 and 1.5 Watts at 12 Ohms.

At 2.6 Ohms it would be still 3 Watts due to the integrated limiter function of the Amplifier.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Hamburger

[tractor_37260]

Rather than stumble about in the dark ! heed the advice offered by Richard Croft and at least try wiring the sugar cube + EM1 in parallel or 

for a better result use one of your EM2's on it's own...job done..

 

 

[SouthernMafia]

On 28/12/2019 at 00:01, Richard Croft said:

With a loksound 5 it’s ok to use an EM1 and sugarcube in paralell,  I’ve done many of my own models this way with no issues. And the volume is much louder using this method.

 

 

I take it this is not ok with a V4?

[charliepetty]

On 29/12/2019 at 10:02, Sofisticat said:

I've never heard the EM2s except on Youtube, where the sound experience is masked by the quality of recording and playback equipment. I am aware of their reputation and so have 2 sat here waiting to go into some of the class 37s which are in the queue for sound fitting. I need to get my hands on a milling machine or a Dremmel to do so.

 

This afternoon, I have disconnected the EM1 from the chip and just used the standard Loksound sugarcube which is hugely disappointing. The volume is still low even at the max setting of ~192, not enough growl and it is easily over powered by the EM1 in another class 37 as it passes. It's a bit of a shame as I hacked the fuel tanks out on a limited edition Bachmann 37501, so not a job for the foolhardy.

 

I seem to be getting conflicting information when I rummage around t'internet on what is acceptable with regards to min/max Ohms and Watts on the Loksounds. I know Richard said to put them the sugarcube and EM1 in parallel, but when do the calculation, it seemed to be that the EM1 (rated at 0.5W max) would be over powered due to the manner of power distribution of the circuit for the speakers, so I chickened out.

 

Using the site "https://www.speakerimpedance.co.uk/":

EM1 = 0.5W max, 4 Ohms

Sugarcube = ??W max, 8Ohms

Loksound V5 = 3 W amplifier

 

Series

Total Impedance = 12 Ω
EM1 = 1 Watts
Sugarcube = 2 Watts

 

Parrallel

Total Impedance = 2.6666666666667 Ω
EM1 = 2 Watts
Sugarcube = 1 Watts

 

Now, I am stumbling about in the dark here and understand that Charlie, Legomanbiffo, Richard, et al on this site have far greater knowledge but can anyone confirm if the calculations above look correct, or if the Loksound V5 documentation might say 3W amp, but isn't, or if the impedance and wattage(?) of the circuits are right, or if I am looking at the far end of a fart and should in fact just say meh.

 

I was really happy with the Loksound V4 combined with the EM1 in the tanks and the standard speaker supplied under the roof fan. Running it today at the club it brought a smile to my face.

If your decoder is a Version 5, and has Legomanbiffo Sounds then please return in the loco OR by itsellf and I will tweek the volume levels for you.

 

Charlie (Legomanbiffo Team)

[Sofisticat]

Thanks for the offer Charlie however as I am on the other side of the world, it's not exactly cheap or convenient. Are there any CVs you can suggest tweaking?

I am going to take the plunge and attack the chassis with a dremmel to cater for an EM2. 7mm seems to be the prescribed depth to allow the speaker to fit. Going on summer hols soon so it may be quite a few weeks before I get around to it.

[charliepetty]

No, Needs reblowing with the New V5 File.

 

Charlie

[Sofisticat]

It was a V5 you sent out to NZ just before Christmas (although you may have sent more than one I guess). Does it not have the most recent revision of the v5 sounds? Is there a way I can check it via JMRI to see the revision no.?

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sofisticat

[charliepetty]

There is a new version of software on the ESU Programmer which allows you to increase the volumes far greater than before, thus you need a programmer.

 

The easy way is to change the EM1 speaker as it a soft low volume speaker(Re its 0.5Watt)

 

Charlie

Edited January 9, 2020 by charliepetty

[Sofisticat]

I've got JMRI and a PR3 so am happy to tinker on the CVs if you could let me know which ones to attack.

 

I will be taking a dremmel to it and fitting an EM2 though , as it does seem to be the recommended way to go.