Loco/Triplet Coach Kit Building. In at the Deep End

[richard.h]

I have brought this topic across from my layout thread as it seems the right place to put it bearing in mind that I may be asking for help later on.

 

Many years ago I built a couple of Ks kits but wasn't really impressed with the results ( probably my fault as my only other experience was Airfix kits) and as RTR improved so much it didn't seem worth it anymore.

Now I want to add to the fleet with something that is not RTR and while conventional wisdom says start with something simple unfortunately that's not what I want so I bought this.

 

 

 

The plan is to build it very slowly whilst sourcing the internet for tips and techniques.

 

My first hurdle was building a chassis that ran square and true so I purchased a jig to align it in.

 

 

Then fit the wheels and motor and run it on a test track under battery power, fingers crossed.

 

 

Everything working OK so far on straight and curved track, time for a break while I plan the next steps.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by richard.h
Update

[davefromacrossthepond]

Richard,

I believe the saying is "go big or go home."  Seriously, looks like you are off to a good start.  I'll be watching your progress as someday I would love to give a go at a locomotive kit.  Good luck!!

Dave

[brossard]

You probably want to have a look at these:

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck.

 

John

[30368]

The very best of luck Richard. Interesting protype and a very impressive looking model when finished. I have an A2/3 to build some time. In my experience, DJH are really good kits to start your loco building on with good instructions and robust valve gear.

 

Just shout if you need help, there are many experienced modellers out there willing to help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

You are right about the K's kits though, the results are never good with them.

 

Can't let that pass - I have built quite a few K's kits over the years, with perfectly satisfactory results.

 

Nowadays, I would substitute Markits wheels and a Highlevel / Mitsumi gearbox / motor; but K's kits are fine if you put in the necessary work.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

20 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

Hardest part when starting out in kit building is always building the chassis but it looks like you've done a good job of it. Personally I've taken to using a modified RTR chassis on kits I make. Last one I did was an A2/1 using Greame King resin parts. 

 

You are right about the K's kits though, the results are never good with them. DJH is a much better manufacturer for loco kits.

 

Good luck with the kit.

 

13 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Can't let that pass - I have built quite a few K's kits over the years, with perfectly satisfactory results.

 

Nowadays, I would substitute Markits wheels and a Highlevel / Mitsumi gearbox / motor; but K's kits are fine if you put in the necessary work.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I have quite a few K's locos, as you have said let down by the chassis especially where outside valve gear is concerned, but as John has said using a decent chassis wheels etc they can be made to both look are work very well

 

I have a couple of DJH kits to build/convert to EM gauge, their chassis being second generation are better than K's but then the kit are priced far higher, the chassis I have are not very EM gauge friendly being fold up to 00 gauge. The castings do look a bit better, but then Southeastern Finecast look better than the older Wills versions. 

[Steamport Southport]

There can be a lot of sense building a large "modern" kit as opposed to a small tank engine. I remember Model Railways did a walkthrough of a DJH Britannia in the early 1980s over several issues. That was when I thought "I could do that", unfortunately I couldn't afford one at the time so it was cheaper K's kits instead. You could buy about four in Hattons for one DJH kit. DJH were like the Rolls Royce of loco kits at the time. Even now they aren't exactly cheap. But have very good instructions and some even have the valve gear ready assembled.

 

Isn't a DJH A2 one of the models on the Tony Wright kit building DVDs?

 

Those small K's 0-4-0Ts which were recommended as beginners kits were pretty difficult to build. Not where I would start. That was a 14XX. Not counting a couple Langley N Gauge diesels on Lifelike chassis. 

 

Nowt wrong with K's kits. Just bought another one, funnily enough from the Hattons pre owned section. Dean Goods still in it's shrink wrap packet for a reasonable price of £40. After adding a few replacement parts it'll still come in at a reasonable price compared to the current RTR versions.  

 

 

 

Jason

[Jon4470]

17 hours ago, richard.h said:

conventional wisdom says start with something simple unfortunately that's not what I want so I bought this.

 

 

 

The plan is to build it very slowly whilst sourcing the internet for tips and techniques.

 

 

 

Hello Richard

 

For what it’s worth I agree with you with regard to conventional wisdom.....I think it is far more important to build something that you really want. That way you’ll have the determination to push on even if/ when the build doesn’t quite go as well as you’d Like.

 

Looks like you’ve made a good start with the chassis - looking forward to seeing the progress with this build.

 

Jon

[richard.h]

Thanks everyone for the advice and support it's good to know that there are other people around who have done this type of thing before (in case of emergency post your problem).

 

I have had a first look at the videos for building the DJH Pacific so I still have those to study.

 

I also now found a video by Tony Wright showing his building methods which last over 5 hours but for some reason is listed as a Dapol Quick build.

 

                                                Dapol BR 2-6-2 Prairie Tank - Quick Build - Model Train - YouTube   

 

 

 

 

So I now have lots of material to study and use as a reference.

 

Thanks Again

 

Richard

 

 

[Staffordshire]

    A photo of a DJH kit built Britannia,    unfortunately not built by myself .....

[richard.h]

On 02/01/2020 at 15:55, Staffordshire said:

    A photo of a DJH kit built Britannia,    unfortunately not built by myself .....

That really is excellent if Icould get anywhere that standard I would be very happy

[richard.h]

Hornby have gone and spoilt it a bit by announcing the planned A2/2 and A2/3 but they are at least a year away and in the meantime I'm quite happy building the kit, learning as I go and looking forward to seeing it running.

Hopefully it will perform better as well as from everything I read whitemetal  kits usually do with their extra weight and superior motors.

 

So the next stage is to test the chassis for running on live track.

As supplied the kit is fitted with the loco wheels live to one side so you have to make the tender wheels live to the opposite side by drilling pins through the insulation, so the basic tender shell was built and this was done.

 

 

As I run DCC it was important to make sure the Loco would run without shorting so a decoder was fitted with a large stay-alive capacitor to compensate for the fact that I am not going to use the pony and bogie wheels as pickups which is suggested in the instructions.

 

 

The basic boiler was then put together and placed so that I could do running tests on the main line  (with insulating tape placed between the Loco and Tender as they are now opposite polarities)

 

 

Relief no blue smoke and it ran through the pointwork and slip without trouble, now what's next.

 

 

[doilum]

The American System works well. If possible, isolate the tender chassis from its body. This prevents fireworks if it meets it's doppelganger coming in the opposite direction.

[Barclay]

Good progress, and don't worry about Hornby - that etched cab and tender will always look better than plastic !

[Ken.W]

You're off to a good start there.

Although 'conventional wisdom' says don't start with something like a Pacific, this is probably one of the better ones to try, DJH are among the better kits and generally fit together well and the Thompson Pacific with the cylinders behind rather than astride the bogie means much less problem with clearances / shorting on curves.

I normally use the split pick-up system with tender locos too, trying to fit normal pick-ups around brake gear can be really awkward (especially in a kit where this is metal) and the sprung plunger type can tend to make very efficient brakes themselves.

Another piece of 'conventional wisdom' is to 'put the cart before the horse' - build the tender first. It'll give you a bit practice before you come to the bit more complicated loco body, plus, with the loco built and 'raring to go' there can be a temptation to rush the tender.

 

As Barclay says, don't worry about the Hornby. Having built a few whitemetal and w/m / brass kits I was wanting to make a start with a full brass kit. When Hornby announced the K1, I promptly made a start with the DMR K1 kit I had 'in stock'...

As good as the Hornby one will no doubt be, one thing it will never match is, as you watch it run by at the head of it's first train, the feeling of 'wow, I actually built that!'

[richard.h]

On 08/01/2020 at 18:26, doilum said:

The American System works well. If possible, isolate the tender chassis from its body. This prevents fireworks if it meets it's doppelganger coming in the opposite direction.

 

I hadn't seen this system of powering a loco before but as you say it seems to work well, probably helped by the weight of the whitemetal.

 

To prevent the Loco Body and Tender touching I intend to make a drawbar from plastic (for insulation) and be just long to keep them from making contact on my smallest radius curves

[richard.h]

16 hours ago, Ken.W said:

You're off to a good start there.

Although 'conventional wisdom' says don't start with something like a Pacific, this is probably one of the better ones to try, DJH are among the better kits and generally fit together well and the Thompson Pacific with the cylinders behind rather than astride the bogie means much less problem with clearances / shorting on curves.

I normally use the split pick-up system with tender locos too, trying to fit normal pick-ups around brake gear can be really awkward (especially in a kit where this is metal) and the sprung plunger type can tend to make very efficient brakes themselves.

Another piece of 'conventional wisdom' is to 'put the cart before the horse' - build the tender first. It'll give you a bit practice before you come to the bit more complicated loco body, plus, with the loco built and 'raring to go' there can be a temptation to rush the tender.

 

As Barclay says, don't worry about the Hornby. Having built a few whitemetal and w/m / brass kits I was wanting to make a start with a full brass kit. When Hornby announced the K1, I promptly made a start with the DMR K1 kit I had 'in stock'...

As good as the Hornby one will no doubt be, one thing it will never match is, as you watch it run by at the head of it's first train, the feeling of 'wow, I actually built that!'

 

Thanks for that, it's made mind up for me, I was thinking of completing the Tender first to practice the techniques needed and then also painting it first as it has nice flat brass sides.

I haven't painted brass before but after reading up on it, it seems it needs thorough cleaning and priming before painting which will be much easier to try on the Tender

 

 

[doilum]

1 hour ago, richard.h said:

 

Thanks for that, it's made mind up for me, I was thinking of completing the Tender first to practice the techniques needed and then also painting it first as it has nice flat brass sides.

I haven't painted brass before but after reading up on it, it seems it needs thorough cleaning and priming before painting which will be much easier to try on the Tender

 

 

Use an etch primer and don't forget to super clean the metal immediately before spraying. Practice on an old can. If using a rattle can, shake hard then stand in hot water before painting.

[hayfield]

Crispy Bacon put me on to Halfords etched primer, so easy to use and gives a nice flat finish.

[Barclay]

14 hours ago, doilum said:

 then stand in hot water before painting.

That's a good idea - I was out in the garage spraying at the weekend and my feet were freezing...

[doilum]

4 hours ago, Barclay said:

That's a good idea - I was out in the garage spraying at the weekend and my feet were freezing...

Someone who remembers their physics better than me will explain why agitating the rattle can causes a serious drop in temperature. This trick applies in all seasons. Likewise, warming the model with a hairdryer helps too.

[hayfield]

You would have thought that the friction of the balls mixing the paint would generate heat, I think simply its the propellent being agitated turns colder

[richard.h]

My Brother arrived today for a holiday with essential supplies, some Phoenix Paints Etch Primer and BR Loco Green paint and although local products are a bit scarce I have managed to find some Cillit Bang limescale cleaner which is recommended on this site for pre-cleaning brass so hopefully I now have everything needed for painting the Model.

[MarkC]

14 hours ago, hayfield said:

You would have thought that the friction of the balls mixing the paint would generate heat, I think simply its the propellent being agitated turns colder

If the propellent (butane) has turned to liquid because of a combination of temperature and pressure, then yes, changing its state back to vapour requires heat energy, which it gets from itself and its surroundings. Latent heat of evaporation and all that...

 

Mark

[RobjUK]

Just for information, Hammerite "Special metals" primer works superbly well on brass and white metal etc.

It does still need to be absolutely clean first though.

 

I did a bit of a redesign on a bogie chassis I'd built and painted, needing the paint removing in an area - when I filed it down the primer stayed stuck in the fine imperfections until the metal around was filed away as well. It absolutely does not flake off.

And it's water based, so no strong smells or difficult to clean brushes / airbrushes, plus you can easily get it from Halfords.

 

The only down side I've found is the "absolutely clean first" bit.

I almost dropped a loco body while transferring it from a cleaning bath to rinse (different ice cream tubs) using a wire hook and grabbed it between a finger and thumb. I thought it would be OK as it was still wet with cleaner.

Nope.. Several coats on I'm still trying to get the paint even over the two fingerprints....