Loco/Triplet Coach Kit Building. In at the Deep End

[hayfield]

Chris P Bacon put me on to Halfords etched primer, just  the job !!

[richard.h]

A bit more progress although not always following the instructions.

 

The handrails were fitted to the Boiler/Firebox but not by soldering as suggested as I didn't like the idea of prodding a hot soldering iron around inside the boiler.

Instead I trickled superglue down a wire onto the pins, this is a method demonstrated on one of Tony Wrights videos and works a treat, I couldn't use superglue before just ended up sticking my fingers together.

 

 

The cab body was then added but not the internal fittings as I want to paint and fit them later after the body has been sprayed.

 

 

Finally the tender body was removed from the chassis and completed so that I can practice cleaning and painting techniques on it before moving on to the Loco

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, richard.h said:

A bit more progress although not always following the instructions.

 

 

Have the chimney and dome been fixed yet - or are they just posed?

 

Might I suggest that a little work on the saddles with a reasonably coarse round file will enable them to sit down much tighter to the smokebox / boiler?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[micklner]

Re the Footplate.

 

It is the worse DJH casting I have ever seen, the huge mould feeds are going to be very hard to remove. I would try and clean them up before anymore delicate work is done on the Boiler which could get easily damaged in the process.

 

Did you buy the kit new?. if yes I would contact DJH with photos  and ask for a new footplate, before you go any further with the build. My A2/3 footplate was nothing like that casting when I built mine a few years ago.

 

Good luck.

Edited January 14, 2020 by micklner

[Scale7JB]

Fair play for going 'in at the deep end'. I recall a distant relative once built his first 3.5" gauge loco, what did he build? a 9F!

 

One tip if I may before you get to the valve gear. A lot of people are going to suggest that you use bits of oily paper to stop the valve gear soldering solid. Might I suggest looking at the chemical blackening method.

 

Chemical black will prevent metal from getting soldered, and so its perfect for getting tight but movable valve gear.

 

JB.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Scale7JB

[richard.h]

On 14/01/2020 at 22:37, cctransuk said:

 

Have the chimney and dome been fixed yet - or are they just posed?

 

Might I suggest that a little work on the saddles with a reasonably coarse round file will enable them to sit down much tighter to the smokebox / boiler?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Yes you are right about them they do need to  sit lower, I will spend a bit more time on them and see what can be done but the problem is if i file them down more it's starting to cut into the flanges around the edge which will spoil the appearance so it's going to have to be a compromise.

[Scale7JB]

19 minutes ago, richard.h said:

Yes you are right about them they do need to  sit lower, I will spend a bit more time on them and see what can be done but the problem is if i file them down more it's starting to cut into the flanges around the edge which will spoil the appearance so it's going to have to be a compromise.

Can you find a piece of tube the same size as the boiler and wrap a piece of grit paper around the tube, then gently slide the castings back and forth. This will take down the thickness of the flange but preserve the shape at the same time.

 

JB. 

[hayfield]

On 16/01/2020 at 09:37, richard.h said:

Yes you are right about them they do need to  sit lower, I will spend a bit more time on them and see what can be done but the problem is if i file them down more it's starting to cut into the flanges around the edge which will spoil the appearance so it's going to have to be a compromise.

 

Taking a photo shows up all the imperfections, still you are making a good job of the build

[richard.h]

On 14/01/2020 at 23:09, micklner said:

Re the Footplate.

 

It is the worse DJH casting I have ever seen, the huge mould feeds are going to be very hard to remove. I would try and clean them up before anymore delicate work is done on the Boiler which could get easily damaged in the process.

 

Did you buy the kit new?. if yes I would contact DJH with photos  and ask for a new footplate, before you go any further with the build. My A2/3 footplate was nothing like that casting when I built mine a few years ago.

 

Good luck.

Thanks for advice, using my trusty Dremel and a selection of files I have removed them and some other imperfections and  hopefully improved the casting although there is still a little bit of infilling needed around the dome.

There will certainly be more cleaning and tidying up required before it is ready for painting

 

[micklner]

2 minutes ago, richard.h said:

Thanks for advice, using my trusty Dremel and a selection of files I have removed them and some other imperfections and  hopefully improved the casting although there is still a little bit of infilling needed around the dome.

There will certainly be more cleaning and tidying up required before it is ready for painting

 

It maybe the photo, the front end looks like it laying/bending  low towards the front end? The smokebox saddle may need filing and or the bottom of the smokebox .

[richard.h]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Taking a photo shows up all the imperfections, still you are making a good job of the build

You are certainly right about the photos,  The feedback and advice is exactly what I wanted and is all much appreciated and ideally I would like to produce the perfect model but when you see the faults highlighted in a photo compared to the locos appearance at normal viewing distance on the layout there comes a time when you have to say "that's good enough for me"

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, richard.h said:

You are certainly right about the photos,  The feedback and advice is exactly what I wanted and is all much appreciated and ideally I would like to produce the perfect model but when you see the faults highlighted in a photo compared to the locos appearance at normal viewing distance on the layout there comes a time when you have to say "that's good enough for me"

 

Does the perfect model exist? But you are right in that constructive comments and advice are very helpful. Certainly many would have benefited in the past with the help of the internet when taking first steps in kit building. Certainly I would have and also I should have joined a club many years earlier, but choose the club carefully. 

 

Keep up the good work, keep an eye on the tools you need (they can be amassed over time), but most of all enjoy yourself

 

I have obtained a couple of DJH kits to build recently, still in the pile to build

[richard.h]

The next stage was to finish the tender by preparing and painting it as by now all the materials had arrived and I thought tender would be easier to work on than the Loco Body.

The brass body was cleaned up using files, brushes and Cillit Bang.

 

The next stage was the priming and this proved to be a big problem, the instructions say apply sparingly to create a thin coat but the stuff is like treacle and dries very quickly so no matter what brush or technique I used it was very difficult to achieve this.

 

 

I think in future I will have to use the Paint Primer for things like the Loco Chassis and then scour the local garages for a tin of Etch Spray Primer.

 

The Tender was the sprayed BR Loco Green and Satin Black.

 

 

It was then given a coat of gloss varnish and then transfers applied.

 

 

It's a bit to shiny for me at the moment but it can be toned down/weathered later once the Loco is complete

 

 

 

[hayfield]

I use Halford spray cans to prime/undercoat loco bodies and chassis. Crisp B Bacon put me on to their etch primer.

 

I have an airbrush but for priming I use the Halfords Etch Primer, for varnish I use Humbrol acrylic varnish, for chassis I use Humbrol black, all from rattle cans as they save time and effort.

 

Railway colours I use Precision through my airbrush, I find their quality superb, though never got on with their rattle cans

 

My airbrush & compressor is a cheap one off eBay, when compared to the cost of railway colours in a rattle can (especially as I could not get them to work) the outlay to buy them is soon recouped

[kevinlms]

On 11/01/2020 at 08:04, hayfield said:

You would have thought that the friction of the balls mixing the paint would generate heat, I think simply its the propellent being agitated turns colder

I wouldn't use my balls to mix paint!

[richard.h]

On 26/01/2020 at 09:25, hayfield said:

I use Halford spray cans to prime/undercoat loco bodies and chassis. Crisp B Bacon put me on to their etch primer.

 

I have an airbrush but for priming I use the Halfords Etch Primer, for varnish I use Humbrol acrylic varnish, for chassis I use Humbrol black, all from rattle cans as they save time and effort.

 

Railway colours I use Precision through my airbrush, I find their quality superb, though never got on with their rattle cans

 

My airbrush & compressor is a cheap one off eBay, when compared to the cost of railway colours in a rattle can (especially as I could not get them to work) the outlay to buy them is soon recouped

 

I had a selection of Precision Paints brought over recently but since transporting pressurized cans by air is strictly forbidden it all had to be in tins, the paints worked fine, as you say all top quality but the tin of etch primer was hopeless it was impossible to get a fine smooth finish. There are specialist thinners for it but as didn't know about them I'm stuck with it.

 

I wouldn't even attempt to use the primer on the Loco Body as the results could be disastrous so the plan now is to try and find a local car dealer who can supply etch primer in a spray can, failing that I have found a UK paint specialist who will ship spray paints and primers by road.

 

The same company has railway colours such as Brunswick Green but I'm a bit reluctant to use them on a model loco as I don't see how you can get the same fine control that is available from an airbrush, which seems to be your experience.

 

 

[hayfield]

10 minutes ago, richard.h said:

 

I had a selection of Precision Paints brought over recently but since transporting pressurized cans by air is strictly forbidden it all had to be in tins, the paints worked fine, as you say all top quality but the tin of etch primer was hopeless it was impossible to get a fine smooth finish. There are specialist thinners for it but as didn't know about them I'm stuck with it.

 

I wouldn't even attempt to use the primer on the Loco Body as the results could be disastrous so the plan now is to try and find a local car dealer who can supply etch primer in a spray can, failing that I have found a UK paint specialist who will ship spray paints and primers by road.

 

The same company has railway colours such as Brunswick Green but I'm a bit reluctant to use them on a model loco as I don't see how you can get the same fine control that is available from an airbrush, which seems to be your experience.

 

 

 

Richard

 

This is my experience, others may have completely different experiences.

 

As far as the 2 part etched primer is concerned, I tried it many years ago and failed miserably. We have a national car spares company called Halfords, I use their acrylic primer on plastics and the etched primer (both rattle cans) for metal

 

For painting locos, coaches and wagons I use Precision paints in my airbrush, which was brought cheaply with a compressor and like many others have learnt to use it. I do use the Phoenix fast drying thinners but I guess you will have a similar make in Spain. My airbrush is much the same as this set

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-KIT-AIRBRUSH-KIT-DOUBLE-ACTION-AIRBRUSH-KT-132-128/370268372610?hash=item5635b6fe82:g:w3MAAOSw5xhcVEJh

 

It does not take too much practice to get a decent result, they also come with tanks and there are plenty on this site who use them. I now need a new airbrush and may get something a bit dearer, though there is no guarantee it will be better

 

I found the paint in the Precision rattle a little thin, needing 2 or more coats (leaving 24 hours between coats) and found it too easy to get runs, and the paint stays seems to stay sticky for much longer. the airbrush seems the opposite, and with careful use I can paint a piece in one go, I find I get far more control on how much paint I use from an airbrush, but I only use Precision enamel paint and their own fast drying thinners

 

But for chassis I use a Humbrol black acrylic paint from a rattle can, I also find Humbrol's acrylic varnish in a rattle can also to be excellent. Both of these products save a lot of time mixing paint and cleaning up after

[richard.h]

A bit of a delay in progress on the Loco, firstly I was struggling to find a spray primer which I eventually got from AK, a Spanish company, so they were able to ship it to me, it's not an etch primer but it does seem to do the job.

 

 

The second problem was lack of handrail knobs, the little sods fly everywhere when you are trying to fit them so I ended up with a shortage.

I now have some but in meantime decided just to clean out the holes for them in the cab and smokebox door and carry on.

I thought it would be best to paint and line the Loco body before fitting the sandboxes etc so that was the next job.

 

 

I have now started lining the loco but am finding it quite tricky, the set of Fox Transfers don't seem to want to stick to gloss or matt paint so I am doing a section at a time and the misting over with a matt varnish to seal them in

[John Tomlinson]

A bit late now you've advanced the painting, but the Precision 2 part etch primer is known to have defective instructions!

 

You need to use between 2 and 3 parts thinner to the base fluid to get it through an airbrush, stirring very thoroughly and cleaning out without delay before it etches the inside of the airbrush. Precision do sell thinners on its own for this purpose, though not a lot of use to you immediately being in Spain.

 

FWIW I've found it to be an excellent product once you've sussed out the mixing, moreover it does a great job of etching to resin as well as metals, although I've no idea why.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

Looking back on your text, it isn't clear if you've used the single or two part etch primer - apologies for the assumption.

 

If it was the single part, you may find that cellulose thinners works as a thinner and carrier for airbrushing purposes, you'd need to test it out on a piece of scrap material to see how it goes. Cellulose thinner will thin the 2 part etch primer by Precision, and so can be used for cleaning up the airbrush, but whether it is also effective as an activator for the base fluid I don't know.

 

John.

[Siberian Snooper]

When I fit hand rail knobs, I put them on a short length of soft iron wire which I bend to a u shape, this stops the little blighters from flying off.

 

 

[30368]

Richard,

 

You have received much really good advice from people that have helped me too. I think it is great that you have dived into this very rewarding aspect of our hobby. Your A2/2 looks great so keep up the good work.

 

If I recall from my DJH Urie S15, their valve gear is very robust and fairly straitforward to assemble. All the best for the future, I will follow the build.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[richard.h]

On 08/03/2020 at 12:42, John Tomlinson said:

Looking back on your text, it isn't clear if you've used the single or two part etch primer - apologies for the assumption.

 

If it was the single part, you may find that cellulose thinners works as a thinner and carrier for airbrushing purposes, you'd need to test it out on a piece of scrap material to see how it goes. Cellulose thinner will thin the 2 part etch primer by Precision, and so can be used for cleaning up the airbrush, but whether it is also effective as an activator for the base fluid I don't know.

 

John.

Hi John

 Thanks for all the advice, for the moment I have had to use the local primer but ideally I would prefer the correct etch primer for future projects.

 

The one I had brought out for me  was Phoenix paints PQ1 single etch primer but as mentioned before I found it very thick and so it was difficult when applying by brush to get a smooth finish. The plan now is to get some of their recommended PQ2 primer thinners when I visit England in the summer but in the meantime I will take your advice and try a test spray of a mix thinned down with cellulose and see how that works.

 

Richard

[richard.h]

The chassis and brake gear for the tender was finished off last week.

 

I had read that it is very easy to create short circuits  with the gear touching the wheels so I used the PSX1s on the layout to constantly check for shorts as the brake gear was added.

 

 

The next step was the lining on the loco body and now some spare handrail knobs had arrived I was able to finish the rails off as well.

 

 

Everything is a little bit shiny at the moment as matt varnish was used to secure the lining transfers but it will be dulled down later when the loco is weathered.

[Ian Rathbone]

A few points. Phoenix two part etching primer is good providing you add cellulose thinners to the mix, it won't work otherwise. Mix the Phoenix thinners and primer 1:1 then add 2 parts cellulose thinners. Spray lightly, you don't need much. Etching primer is meant for brass and nickel silver and has little effect on white metal where a filler primer, rubbed down, does a better job. Just remember to give your airbrush a good clean with cellulose thinners, which I am sure is available in Spain.

 

BR green is not Brunswick Green, it is Mid Chrome Green (or Landrover Deep Bronze Green). Brunswick was used by the GCR and SECR; it has more blue in it. In BR livery the A2 should have green valances, not black.

 

Regards

 

Ian R