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On 06/01/2020 at 07:45, Lacathedrale said:

Thirty years before my era, but no wonder the sub-surface and tube lines were so successful (at least with patronage, if not fiscally)!

 

image.png.e6bfd0f640347caa948554ec2e211121.png

Engraving of Ludgate Hill by Gustav Dore published 1872

 

The following is a cropping of a photo from the latest issue of Backtrack Jan 2020 credit to the author's collection - which shows the water tank in situ above the engine shed, whose doors appear to have been removed when it was cut off from the running lines by the extension of  platform 1. 

 

The glazed brick building to the right of the engine shed, behind the the platform awning appears to be original but the buildings in-front created during the extension when the pilot road was filled in. I must admit, I prefer the feathered edges to the original canopy compared to this rather more austere cut-away version.

 

It does highlight just how narrow platform 1 would have been, if you imagine that platform 1 awning non existing and a running line behind - probably not much more than eight feet.  The leftmost 'platform' is actually a wooden gangway off the end of Platform 6, that led out from the station to the signal box  pictured earlier in this thread.

 

image.png.542146762dc9de6ec88b02a7de374390.png

Holborn viaduct some time after electrification and conversion to colour-light signals

 

While we're on the more theoretical than practical matters, as per @TJ52's prompting it may be time to start thinking about a name - I am very much open to ideas. Being themed so heavily around the Blackfriars/St. Pauls/Ludgate Hill/Holborn Viaduct it would seem as though a moniker or portmanteau may be appropriate. Roads in the Ludgate Hill/Holborn Viaduct area also provide rich pickings: 'St George's', 'Bishops Court',  and 'Fleet Lane' , as do the churches of  St Sepulchre's, St Bartholomew's, and St Martin's. Any suggestion gladly taken, tho I could imagine the layout still being named 'A Slice of Edwardian London' even if the station gets a name :)

 

All the best,

 

I always like the name Saffron Hill myself!

 

Dave.

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She sounds delightful. A sister of Octavia?

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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Yes mate the crossing timbers extend across all the tracks. I also tend to go with building track on a seperate trackbed and fitting to the layout after building the track.

I've done it the other way around as well, neither way is right or wrong I just go with what is the most manageable in the circumstances.

Regards Lez.    

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16 hours ago, PMP said:

When I either build or lay pointwork i do it on a section of the trackbed (including underlay if applicable). This allows me to work around and underneath it with the minimum of problems. Once track is laid and feeds wired, the track bed section is added to the layout ‘chassis’. If you can’t do that with your board construction, I’d take whatever route gives you the most accessibility to that set of track work.

 

7 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Yes mate the crossing timbers extend across all the tracks. I also tend to go with building track on a seperate trackbed and fitting to the layout after building the track.

I've done it the other way around as well, neither way is right or wrong I just go with what is the most manageable in the circumstances.

Regards Lez.    

 

Thank you both, the viaduct section is fully removable, so I can remove that and get full access to all the guts above and below easily, and then replace back afterwards. I will lay the timbers in line with the diamond, and then thread the running rails alongside. Happily, it seems the widest section is just about 110mm so the packs of pre-cut ply sleepers crom C&L (despite their supply problems) will be quite suitable. Thank you both!

 

@dasatcopthorne - Saffron Hill is quite nice - I think I've seen a layout called this already?

 

As for progress, the FY throat is shaping up nicely:

 

8DtPxu1.jpg

 

I'm glad that the lines don't wobble all over the place :) The slip is non-functional in the straight arrangement, only coming into play with an expansion board which will run the connection onto the up main, to allow the FY operator to shunt both sides of the yard to remarshal things 'hands off'.

 

TDy8Pp5.jpg

 

All of the jumpers have been cut, new bindings to adjacent stock rails for the switchblades, and both holes for the frog droppers (now isolated) and future tie-bar actuation have been implemented. I'm not 100% on the  strategic solution for point actuation, so my plan is to fit frog juicers so I can flick these over by hand in the interim. I'm not interested in DCC controlled turnouts, but motorisation linked to a lever frame does appeal - this way I can go either way and I'm not boxed in.

 

ASUHBQ2.jpg

 

At the edge, they are soldered to DCC concepts pre-etched PCB sleepers. I've used some thin card to raise the level fo the PCB sleeper up to kiss the underside of the rail. To secure the alignment across boards I've continued the single piece of flexitrack onto the second board, where it will recieve similar treatment before being sliced through with a dremel/etc. The FY modules are 3' each, so just about the length of a piece of Peco flex - nothing but a little trimming required.

 

 

 

 

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Lacathedrale.

 

I Like your trackwork.

 

I've laid track recently and today I've painted it before I ballast.

 

Elbow Lane.

 

 

Edited by ElbowLane00

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Cheers, it feels more functional than nice to me at the moment, but that's often the case with fiddle yards I guess :)

 

Talking to @gordon s about the diamond shown previously, I've ordered chairs and fishplates from Hattons, as well as some limewood strip for timbers. I'm wondering about how to fill out the middle of the diamond, either with a full diamond-shaped set of rails, or two separate check rails adjacent the k-crossing. Fortunately, here's a picture from Ludgate Hill towards Holborn Viaduct circa 1950 which shows both:

 

image.png.471c73434470cabfd49a588760b70d7b.png

Ludgate Hill towards Holborn Viaduct circa 1950 railtour.

 

image.png.ca2393f8b57c2d54e4e41985d2773eba.png

Ludgate hill towards Holborn Viaduct circa 1953 railtour.

 

The reverse of this arrangement is shown below, this time the 'full' diamond on the left and pair-of-check-rails on the right:

 

image.png.cb51891b91f40c4880c8b869342dec4c.png

Holborn Viaduct (?) towards Ludgate Hill, circa 1970

 

The Left hand shows two discrete check rails, and in the middle of the scissors crossing on the right hand shows a single diamond-shaped set of rails. I guess I have the choice of my own! :)

 

Edited by Lacathedrale
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This is what the front of the layout looks like at this point, roughly:

 

On 02/01/2020 at 18:48, Lacathedrale said:

2LBRXH5.png

 

After looking at this shot, provided by @TJ52 :

image.png.fd4f9cbd43fffcb9742aba98df63b7b5.png

 

And the ever more pointed adhesion to Holborn Viaduct, if it might be a good idea to include a representation of the descent towards the Metropolitan Extension and Farringdon at the front of the layout:

image.png.b039bd48b075c16f1d44d262712f5c2d.png 

 

The signal box over the gradient would provide an excellent view block for the trains going to/from the station on the top of the viaduct - and there is still a slice of space left for a ground-level scene. After some conversation with @justin1985 the 'sea of tracks' might be egregious, but the various levels of the train shed, platforms, water tank/shed, viaduct, gradient, buildings behind, signalbox in front, and this slice of ground-level should hopefully stop it from looking like baby's-first-fiddle-yard.  Additionally, the adjacent 90 degree curve module (yet to be constructed, obviously) will have a much greater depth and that bridge over Ludgate Hill - so should hopefully balance the 'high level' focus of this board.

 

I would very much appreciate any comments or thoughts on this adaption.

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13 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

This is what the front of the layout looks like at this point, roughly:

 

 

After looking at this shot, provided by @TJ52 :

image.png.fd4f9cbd43fffcb9742aba98df63b7b5.png

 

And the ever more pointed adhesion to Holborn Viaduct, if it might be a good idea to include a representation of the descent towards the Metropolitan Extension and Farringdon at the front of the layout:

image.png.b039bd48b075c16f1d44d262712f5c2d.png 

 

The signal box over the gradient would provide an excellent view block for the trains going to/from the station on the top of the viaduct - and there is still a slice of space left for a ground-level scene. After some conversation with @justin1985 the 'sea of tracks' might be egregious, but the various levels of the train shed, platforms, water tank/shed, viaduct, gradient, buildings behind, signalbox in front, and this slice of ground-level should hopefully stop it from looking like baby's-first-fiddle-yard.  Additionally, the adjacent 90 degree curve module (yet to be constructed, obviously) will have a much greater depth and that bridge over Ludgate Hill - so should hopefully balance the 'high level' focus of this board.

 

I would very much appreciate any comments or thoughts on this adaption.

 

 

Oooo I like this much.

 

Urban railway are the 'dogs' for me, especially London urban railways.

Possible because my ancestors lived in a street in Farringdon that disappeared when they built the Underground there.

 

Dave

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It has the potential to become a visual feast (well, a feast for people who like Edwardian urban railways; maybe a glut of track and infrastructure for people who like bucolicness).

 

Someone has done a rather similar layout, which majors on authentic signal-box working IIRC, but with a much higher viewing angle. I can't recall the name (Dock Green? Dock Junction? Something like that), but it is set in the 1950s.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

This is what the front of the layout looks like at this point, roughly:

(Snip)

I would very much appreciate any comments or thoughts on this adaption.

My gut feeling is that the overall roof (As shown) will visually overpower the balance of the design. I.e. it’ll look too imposing for the length/size of trains on the layout. A flat, lower roof profile or open canopy style like Greenwich Park will balance it better.

 

834C5848-7B8A-480A-84C4-A0D12D6BCE50.jpeg

Edited by PMP
Clarity
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The height of the overall roof could be balanced to an extent by the buildings at the back/on the backscene getting progressively taller towards the fiddle yard and then also the raised signal box.

 

Terry

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I am planning on a more low-key design in line with the real HV overall canopy, with platform canopies coming further out into the middle of the layout, as below:

 

image.png.3d11c84b9c03a711e3ff5d947ae26ae4.png

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2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

This is what the front of the layout looks like at this point, roughly:

 

 

After looking at this shot, provided by @TJ52 :

image.png.fd4f9cbd43fffcb9742aba98df63b7b5.png

 

And the ever more pointed adhesion to Holborn Viaduct, if it might be a good idea to include a representation of the descent towards the Metropolitan Extension and Farringdon at the front of the layout:

image.png.b039bd48b075c16f1d44d262712f5c2d.png 

 

The signal box over the gradient would provide an excellent view block for the trains going to/from the station on the top of the viaduct - and there is still a slice of space left for a ground-level scene. After some conversation with @justin1985 the 'sea of tracks' might be egregious, but the various levels of the train shed, platforms, water tank/shed, viaduct, gradient, buildings behind, signalbox in front, and this slice of ground-level should hopefully stop it from looking like baby's-first-fiddle-yard.  Additionally, the adjacent 90 degree curve module (yet to be constructed, obviously) will have a much greater depth and that bridge over Ludgate Hill - so should hopefully balance the 'high level' focus of this board.

 

I would very much appreciate any comments or thoughts on this adaption.

It's visually similar to what I'm planning for Strand and also to the Blackfriars layout that appears at Warley last year. I very much like layouts of this kind.

 

You would need to decide how you work with the train shed. Do you model the roof as removable so you can take it off to operate? Do you fix the roof and rely on autocouplers? Do you put the buffers slightly beyond the scenic brake so arriving engines are accessible in a miniature fiddle yard?

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Blackfriars if it's the one I'm thinking of is a wonderful layout - really fastidious and lovely to see on the internet, I haven't seen it in person yet.

 

I'm not yet decided on those descending lines - it my mind it makes the layout a direct homage to Holborn Viaduct and probably likely to incur unfavourable comparisons with the real thing (or other layouts that have done it better justice) - but it does seem to sit quite well.

 

For the train shed I am expecting automatic uncouplers to do the gruntwork, but fixing the roof to the walls and pillars using something like rare earth magnets - I'm a fair ways away from that yet, though!  Much like the original HV station, the 'forecourt' is tiny, only an abbreviated walkway at the end of the platforms, with the remainder of the station accoutremont underneath the hotel building that will form an endcap.

 

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Terminal stations always present problems with tail-lamps for outgoing services. Access to the rear vehicle can help.

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Rather than paying through the nose for laser cut wooden sleepers, I have decided to experiment with limewood strip, used by model ship builders:

 

IVIp7dt.png

Twenty meters of 4mm x 1.6mm limewood for £15

 

Meanwhile, the fiddle yard trundles on - I have got the second board built and bolted in place. The first hinge is also in-situ but I figure it'll be easier to solder up the PCB sleepers at the board joins without the other attached.

0ULzP4q.png

Rear view of the fiddle yard

 

 

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Though this probably looks alot like the previous shot, the rest of the track is now soldered and glued, being weighed down to dry:

 

HrB9LDg.png

 

Should I be using a dremel with a diamond cutting disc, or rail cutters to sever the gap between modules? The plan is to place some home-made rerailers either side of the join either way.

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I have been dabbling in 00 for the first time in decades over the past month and have had to cut rails at a baseboard joint.

 

I found that using a slitting disc created an overly-large gap, and that it was next to impossible to get a square cut, because the body of the tool is fatter than the diameter of the disc.

 

After one track, I went back to the trusty razor saw, taking my time and not forcing, and git the desired fag-paper-thin and reasonably square cuts. It takes a bit of a knack where the tracks are very close together, but worth the work IMO.

 

If you use rail-nippers, one side of the cut will be pinched, which is messy, and if you then square it up neatly, you are back to an appreciable gap.

 

One question? How have you secured the rails at the board-joint? They need to be very well fixed to avoid damage whichever cutting method you choose.

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The thickness of slitting discs varies. You can buy very thin ones, diamond coated as LaCath suggests, which make a very fine cut. Everything works if you use one of the fatter ones - you just get a louder click-clack as the wheels cross the gap...

 

The other thing I would add is that after cutting you might feel the need to chamfer the rails: Be gentle otherwise the wheel have even further to drop and the click-clack gets even louder and more worrying.

 

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1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

.........I found that using a slitting disc created an overly-large gap, and that it was next to impossible to get a square cut, because the body of the tool is fatter than the diameter of the disc......

 

I've used a Ø38mm disc and a flex-shaft (which has a smaller body than the dremel itself) but only when modifying points

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

.......the trusty razor saw, taking my time and not forcing, and git the desired fag-paper-thin and reasonably square cuts. It takes a bit of a knack where the tracks are very close together, but worth the work IMO.

 

I preferred using a razor saw across the baseboard join

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The flex-shaft is probably the key ......... I don't have one.

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On 06/02/2020 at 22:04, Lacathedrale said:

Rather than paying through the nose for laser cut wooden sleepers, I have decided to experiment with limewood strip, used by model ship builders:

 

Twenty meters of 4mm x 1.6mm limewood for £15

 

 

 

Hi,  

 

I used limewood strip when building N gauge track and points, and found it easy to use.  A gullotine cutter makes it easy to cut to consistent lengths.  And always pre-drill holes for pins or rivets to prevent splitting.  The layout I use it for has passed to the scrapline, but I'm thinking of going down the the same route as you for a forth-coming EM project.  Then again, I may just get some SMP track.  I only want a few metres and the cost of gauges may outweigh any savings.  I shall have to research it a bit more.  I already have the necessary turnouts: pcb construction, unused at £3 each, which, I thought, was too good to miss!

 

Roja

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Good to know @37Oban - I'm going to be using butanone to melt the styrene chairs - apparently this is fine on ply sleepers so I can't imagine limewood will be a problem. Of course, we'll have to see.

 

Thanks to the tips from @Harlequin @Nearholmerand @chuffinghell - I used a razor saw to slice the rails, so we go from this:

 

oQ0wlWc.png

 

to this:

 

cEzkGYz.png

 

Just a tiny bit of wiring and some braces to support it in a closed position and this is basically done!

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48 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Good to know @37Oban - I'm going to be using butanone to melt the styrene chairs - apparently this is fine on ply sleepers so I can't imagine limewood will be a problem. Of course, we'll have to see.

 

 

Hi,

 

I think the butanone will work.  In fact it may work better than on ply as the limewood is not so tight grained as plywood.  A little experimentation will see if this is right.  When I built my N gauge track I soldered the rails to 0.4mm brass pins that had had their heads filed flat!  I used this method both for plain track and custom turnouts, including a bisected turnout and curved single slip, built using templates I drew myself.  There are two main advantages to using wood sleepers and timbers:  saves on cutting insulation gaps and looks very good when dyed and weathered!  

 

Roja

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