A change of circumstances - new plan required

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Greetings All,

 

Despite having a terminus layout under construction, a change in circumstances means I may have the opportunity for something larger.  After much negotiation with the Domestic Controller I may be able to claim a 9' by 10' 4" space in the loft conversion (apologies for the archaic measurements, old habits die hard....)

 

The space I'm hopefully getting looks a bit like this, dimensions in inches:

 

The 18" wide section cannot be made any deeper, but the vertical (so to speak) 24" wide section could be made any depth within reason.

 

As before, I seek the sagely wisdom of RMWeb before I commit myself to some kind of fool's errand!  I've commented before on how Mac Pyrke's Berrow Branch ticks a lot of boxes for me; I find the second station or destination adds a lot of extra interest.  I'd also like to reuse as much of what I've already constructed as possible as scrapping it would lead to some awkward questions from SWMBO!  With that in mind, I've cobbled together a shambles of an idea taking a lot of inspiration from the Berrow Branch, reusing my existing boards with some alterations as a substitute for Berrow .  Gauge is OO and region / era is 1930s LMS.  This is non-negotiable as I want to give some new life to my late father's collection.

 

Here is the rough idea.  With a little alteration my existing boards could be rearranged into a similar layout to the real Bromley North, a terminus at the end of a double-track line (I prefer double-track if possible).  This would have to go in Area A.  A substitute for East Brent would then go in the 18"-wide Area B, with the connecting line plus hidden sidings / cassettes in Area C:

 

A close up of the Area A / Bromely North / Berrow-substitute section - 

 

 

Just to be clear, the roads from top to bottom are

Goods siding 1, Goods siding 2, Run-around loop, Platform road, (platform), Platform road.  The siding(s) at bottom-right is to replicate Mac's loco shed, with or without turntable.

 

Area B / East Brent-substitute - 

 

In Area C I could add some kind of mill etc with private siding, as per East Brent, to hide the entrance to the FY.

 

Do my illustrious peers have any comment or suggestions please?  Advice is welcome!

 

Thank you in advance

[mdvle]

My initial feeling is that in general hiding a fiddle yard behind a scenic portion of a layout is a bad idea, asking for trouble - as in damaged scenery when reaching into the fiddle yard.  The risk of damage could be minimized if the layout was relatively low, so it will depend on what height the layout will be relative to the headroom available.

 

Perhaps use the top as a fiddle yard, with maybe a small test track/programming track/place for a rolling road at the front - perhaps add a keyboard shelf that could be pulled in/out to allow an area to work on models, do maintenance.

 

The right side could provide 2 options.

 

One, simply some countryside to run through, perhaps a bridge / river scene, so you could get the feeling of actually arriving somewhere when you get to your terminus.

 

Alternatively, as far to the top as possible place your second station or perhaps just a goods yard or industry,  Track runs through that scene to the fiddle yard.

 

 

[TonyMay]

If you can negotiate the arrangements into a full loop that would allow you to run it as a roundy-roundy.

[Robert Stokes]

That's a pretty good adaptation of 'Berrow' which I admired when I first saw it in a magazine. The only thing I don't like is the two platform roads in the main station being the same length. I think that the bottom one should be shorter, with the station building beside it, as in the original. I wonder whether you have drawn it like that because it is a part of what you have already built.

 

Robert

[Titanius Anglesmith]

13 hours ago, mdvle said:

My initial feeling is that in general hiding a fiddle yard behind a scenic portion of a layout is a bad idea, asking for trouble - as in damaged scenery when reaching into the fiddle yard.  The risk of damage could be minimized if the layout was relatively low, so it will depend on what height the layout will be relative to the headroom available.

 

Yes, the access to the fiddle yard is a potential concern. I do wonder how Mac Pyrke, John Charman etc managed with it. Even our own Brian D, come to think of it. Would using cassettes here make a difference, as all “fiddling” can take place elsewhere, just leaving the placement of the cassette to happen on the layout itself. 

 

10 hours ago, TonyMay said:

If you can negotiate the arrangements into a full loop that would allow you to run it as a roundy-roundy.

 

Not possible, unfortunately, due to the layout of the room. 

 

1 hour ago, Robert Stokes said:

The only thing I don't like is the two platform roads in the main station being the same length. I think that the bottom one should be shorter, with the station building beside it, as in the original. I wonder whether you have drawn it like that because it is a part of what you have already built.

 

Robert

 

You are correct in saying that the existing road is already that length. I am also painfully aware that my platforms are woefully short already, without making one artificially shorter. If I had more length (ahem) then a shorter bay would be something I’d consider. 

 

Thanks guys for the replies

[Harlequin]

What about a simple fiddle yard on a slightly lower level in front of station B?

 

The junction would be just outside station A. From there the single track line to B would rise very gently on the outside and the double track line to the fiddle yard would fall very gently on the inside.

 

The fiddle yard would be just low enough that from your normal eyeline vehicles in it would be visually separated from the station scene but without needing to be hidden itself. (Maybe 50mm difference?)

 

A fiddle yard in that position would be easy to access and there would be more room in Area C for a scenic run from A to B.

 

Edit: Furthermore, the outside platform at station A (the one suggested to be shorter) would then have an obvious purpose as the "bay" platform serving "branch" station B.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Harlequin

[Titanius Anglesmith]

18 hours ago, Harlequin said:

What about a simple fiddle yard on a slightly lower level in front of station B?

 

The junction would be just outside station A. From there the single track line to B would rise very gently on the outside and the double track line to the fiddle yard would fall very gently on the inside.

 

The fiddle yard would be just low enough that from your normal eyeline vehicles in it would be visually separated from the station scene but without needing to be hidden itself. (Maybe 50mm difference?)

 

 

Happy New Year, folks! 

 

That’s an interesting suggestion. Now that you mention it, I seem to recall seeing something similar on here. IIRC, there was a simple removable or hinged cover over the top of the FY. It may have even been made scenic, possibly a grass field or water surface (a shallow but hollow grass embankment might provide additional clearance beneath...). 

 

Taking Station A as the datum, it would make sense to lower the FY track and raise the branch track by 25mm each to achieve the suggested 50mm separation. With the junction pointwork kept on the level, I’m not sure how much length that would leave for the gradient (plus transitions). I’ll have a play in Anyrail later. I must admit that building in gradients is a bit daunting, but it’s an interesting idea. Thanks

 

 

[Robert Stokes]

This is a supplement to Harlequin's idea. Using a gradient of 1 in 50 on both the line ascending to the small station and on the one (I don't think it will be double track) descending to the fiddle yard, might just separate them by enough for the FY to be covered by some easily removable scenery.

 

Robert

[Harlequin]

28 minutes ago, Robert Stokes said:

This is a supplement to Harlequin's idea. Using a gradient of 1 in 50 on both the line ascending to the small station and on the one (I don't think it will be double track) descending to the fiddle yard, might just separate them by enough for the FY to be covered by some easily removable scenery.

 

Robert

The problem with any kind of removable cover is that you would spend most of the operating time with it removed and lifting or removing it becomes a small chore that might put you off operating sometimes.

 

So my suggestion is to do something permanent to visually separate the FY from the scene behind. Just manipulating the sight lines might be enough but a wall or a fixed partial cover might also do the job.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Harlequin

[mdvle]

On 31/12/2019 at 08:59, Titanius Anglesmith said:

 

Yes, the access to the fiddle yard is a potential concern. I do wonder how Mac Pyrke, John Charman etc managed with it. Even our own Brian D, come to think of it. Would using cassettes here make a difference, as all “fiddling” can take place elsewhere, just leaving the placement of the cassette to happen on the layout itself.

 

I suspect a combination of being very careful, and more importantly accepting that damage will occur and living with having the damage until such time as they get around to fixing it.

 

Sometimes, depending on the usual things like space available and the compromises to design that are found acceptable, the less than desirable solution ends up being the best compromise.

 

Another thought - I assume the layout will be sharing the loft with other uses, and if so on the assumption that it means others regularly in the space and hence having the layout in eyesight, when designing and building the layout take this into consideration.  If this is the case, then look at doing a basic level of scenery to your fiddle yard to it blends in with the rest of the layout and looks presentable.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

On 30/12/2019 at 23:59, mdvle said:

Perhaps use the top as a fiddle yard, with maybe a small test track/programming track/place for a rolling road at the front - perhaps add a keyboard shelf that could be pulled in/out to allow an area to work on models, do maintenance.

 

The right side could provide 2 options.

 

One, simply some countryside to run through, perhaps a bridge / river scene, so you could get the feeling of actually arriving somewhere when you get to your terminus.

 

Alternatively, as far to the top as possible place your second station or perhaps just a goods yard or industry,  Track runs through that scene to the fiddle yard.

 

 

 

I've spent a little while measuring up, tinkering with Anyrail and measuring up again.  Try as I might, I cannot come up with anything much better than what I've already posted.  If anything, a reduction in width of Area C would be beneficial, though not essential.

 

I like the idea of having the secondary station ("East Brent") as Mac Pyrkes and others have stated it adds a lot of operational interest.  Having the secondary station as a through-station leading to the fiddle yard is a good idea but it leaves practically no separation between the two stations.  Given more space it's definitely something I'd consider.

 

On 01/01/2020 at 10:16, Robert Stokes said:

This is a supplement to Harlequin's idea. Using a gradient of 1 in 50 on both the line ascending to the small station and on the one (I don't think it will be double track) descending to the fiddle yard, might just separate them by enough for the FY to be covered by some easily removable scenery.

 

Robert

 

Measuring up, I think there isn't enough length of plain track to make a reasonable gradient work, unfortunately.

 

On 01/01/2020 at 14:48, mdvle said:

Another thought - I assume the layout will be sharing the loft with other uses, and if so on the assumption that it means others regularly in the space and hence having the layout in eyesight, when designing and building the layout take this into consideration.  If this is the case, then look at doing a basic level of scenery to your fiddle yard to it blends in with the rest of the layout and looks presentable.

 

Taking your idea a step further though, what about a fully scenic fiddle yard disguised as something more?  If I planted a Minories, for instance, at the top of the layout the platform roads provide three or four storage roads.  The nearest platform road potentially has fairly easy access for fiddling.  The other roads can be run-around or use a layover loco as per Minories.  I don't anticipate much changing over of stock in any case (famous last words....).  It does mean losing the second destination and branch line interest of East Brent though.  Crazy idea?? 

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Hmmm, the more I think about my last suggestion the less I like it. I blame it on a low blood sugar. 

 

Alternatively, run the branch behind the fiddle yard instead of in front?