Hornby goes Steampunk in 2020

[Coryton]

8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Similar thing to the Airfix "Lego" I expect.

 

That's been available for years. Got a handful for my nephew as a way of trying to get him interested in Airfix kits in future.

 

 

Doesn't look like it to me - the Airfix stuff just uses Lego studs on the inside to hold the parts of a model together doesn't it?

 

Whereas this looks like "real" Lego, making up a model from standard parts which could then be assembled in different ways and combined with other kits etc.

 

6 minutes ago, Ribird said:

 

So this isn't actual Lego. No Lego branding on any of the blocks, nor packaging, so whatever brand they are using is a clear rip off of Lego. Something Lego has been dealing with over in China for the longest time, and has had a win few wins over the last few years, yet like a Hydra, kill one and two more pop up.

 

I don't think that companies (Chinese or otherwise) making bricks that use the Lego system are infringing any of Lego's rights, so long as they don't write "Lego" on them of course. I think part of the brick design was patented but that's run out now.

 

Selling a clone of a set designed by Lego and changing the name slightly is a different matter - is that what you're referring to?

 

But I don't believe that's what's going on here.

 

It may turn out to be a marketing diaster, and the bricks may not be very good quality, but I can't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

 

 

 

 

[Ribird]

Just now, Coryton said:

I don't think that companies (Chinese or otherwise) making bricks that use the Lego system are infringing any of Lego's rights, so long as they don't write "Lego" on them of course. I think part of the brick design was patented but that's run out now.

 

Selling a clone of a set designed by Lego and changing the name slightly is a different matter - is that what you're referring to?

 

It may turn out to be a marketing diaster, and the bricks may not be very good quality, but I can't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

I believe so, issues with cloning parts, sets, and prints. Some of the bricks I can see, are definite rip offs, along with printing. Bricks already don't look good quality. At least Mega Bloks are similar, but at least have their own branding on the bricks. Look at the minifigs, not even same leg moulds. I'm also seeing a piece from the newer line of Speed Campions. Another newer piece as well from 2013. 

 

The treads are not copied. The wooden wheels and smaller rims may look similar, but not the same, little bit of detail differences.

 

I'm going to say when Lego sees this, they aren't going to be happy! They definitely don't want their reputation tarnished by bad bricks.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

No one expects the RMweb Inquisition!!!

How incredibly naive of them.

[rob D2]

I’m not a fan of too much Hornby diversification.

Not when the market icrying out for such standard stuff as a LL 50, a head box blue 31 and the right colours on GBRf.

 

last time they did it too a great extent it didn’t do them much good ( 2012 Olympic tat anyone .Got me a rhymic gymanastics taxi for junior ).

 

That was between Kohler periods though, so maybe they know what they are doing with him back at the helm 

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Similar thing to the Airfix "Lego" I expect.

 

That's been available for years. Got a handful for my nephew as a way of trying to get him interested in Airfix kits in future.

 

https://uk.airfix.com/shop/quick-build

 

 

Jason

 

I thought the Airfix "Lego" was Betta-Builda, as I've still got a load of that from the 1960's in my loft !!

[RAYTHEROCK]

Can only conclude Hornby no longer see themselves as serious suppliers of quality model railways, and are content to further drag the once great name of Bassett-Lowke through the mire with steampunk bricks.  Absolute rubbish.  Concentrate on the essentials if you want to  build up the business

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hornby's brand management has been a joke for the last thirty years (at least).

[Steamport Southport]

13 minutes ago, RAYTHEROCK said:

Can only conclude Hornby no longer see themselves as serious suppliers of quality model railways, and are content to further drag the once great name of Bassett-Lowke through the mire with steampunk bricks.  Absolute rubbish.  Concentrate on the essentials if you want to  build up the business

 

What great name of Bassett-Lowke?

 

Bassett-Lowke himself sullied what reputation he did have with some very sharp practices back in the day. I've never seen a good word written about the man.

 

I feel people are looking at things through rose tinted glasses.

[Joseph_Pestell]

28 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Lego is huge. Even a small slice of this could be good for business and a chance to reinvest. I don’t understand why railway modellers would not want a strong Hornby. 

 

Of course we all want a "strong Hornby". Poor brand management is no way to get "strong". 

[Islesy]

It’s such a shame, as under Richard Ames, in late 2015 there were discussions regarding bringing back O Gauge, using the Bassett-Lowke branding. Unfortunately, that all ended with the first of several ‘night of the long knives’ episodes...

[MarkSG]

3 hours ago, Ribird said:

 

So this isn't actual Lego. No Lego branding on any of the blocks, nor packaging, so whatever brand they are using is a clear rip off of Lego. Something Lego has been dealing with over in China for the longest time, and has had a win few wins over the last few years, yet like a Hydra, kill one and two more pop up.

 

Looking at the product images, they are definitely using a knock off China "lego" company. And I mean, the moulds of stuff are almost exactly the same, especially the minifig accessories. The minifigs are also a key giveaway for being a knockoff, but close enough to call it lego. Even in their product images, some of the face printing is way off! Like bottom half of the face! That grey mask piece with the shoulder armor was introduced in the Lego Ninjago range in 2012.

 

The design right in Lego bricks has long since expired. So long as you don't put the word "Lego" anywhere on them, anyone can make precise replicas of the bricks themselves. And, indeed, many manufacturers now do.

That's why Lego's own business model has shifted way from simply making the bricks and towards making specific kits that are built with the bricks, because the design of the kit is still protectable. But these, of course, are Hornby's own design - they're not copying Lego's kits -  so there's no infringement there either.

[adb968008]

Might not appeal to a model railway shop, but service stations, supermarkets, newsagents  etc may find these quite attractive for entertaining the kids on a journey or as small presents to bring home after work/business trips etc.

 

my little one loves lego friends, but she makes all kinds of other bits out of them I can see this appealing to her, as much as the price appeals to me as a toy that distracts and educates her.

Edited April 14, 2021 by adb968008

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I've never seen a good word written about the man.

Then you clearly haven’t read much, because a huge number of good words have been said and written about him, some of it bordering on hagiography, to the degree where it is actually very difficult to form a well-balanced picture of him.

 

The key fact is though, that with Greenly’s able assistance, he effectively founded the hobby of model railways.

[Coryton]

Just now, MarkSG said:

That's why Lego's own business model has shifted way from simply making the bricks and towards making specific kits that are built with the bricks, because the design of the kit is still protectable. But these, of course, are Hornby's own design - they're not copying Lego's kits -  so there's no infringement there either.

 

I'm pretty sure that Lego were making kits before their patents ran out.

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, RAYTHEROCK said:

Can only conclude Hornby no longer see themselves as serious suppliers of quality model railways, and are content to further drag the once great name of Bassett-Lowke through the mire with steampunk bricks.  Absolute rubbish.  Concentrate on the essentials if you want to  build up the business

 

Hornby, the company, produces loads of things that are not Hornby, the brand. Airfix, Scalextric, Corgi, etc. They're now trying to develop Bassett-Lowke as another brand that isn't directly related to normal railway modelling. If it works, that will build up the business.

Remember also that the original Hornby also made Meccano. Having non-model-railway brands has always been a part of the business. Tri-ang owned Minic, Pedigree and Frog as well as their model railway brand.  Bachmann have recently announced a range of Thunderbirds kits. This is perfectly normal. A business that wants to grow, has to have diverse product ranges. Being a single-brand company is less robust, not more.

[MarkSG]

3 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

I'm pretty sure that Lego were making kits before their patents ran out.

They were, but they've moved a lot further into that arena since the patents and design rights expired. And, of course, they knew in advance that those rights were going to expire, so they had already started the shift before they did, precisely in order to ensure the future of the company afterwards.

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 hours ago, scumcat said:

Strange I don’t see it as poor brand management. Bassett lowke is a brand that is forgotten to some of us and unknown to the young who these items are aimed at. And I am not sure we all want a strong Hornby there are plenty of bashers  out there.

 

You have it there in a nutshell. If you have a new product, use a new name. This product has absolutely nothing in common with the Bassett Lowke heritage.

If Hornby ever want to relaunch Bassett Lowke as a coarse-scale but premium brand of model railways, it won't work because the brand will be associated with plastic bricks.

I could be regarded as a Hornby "basher". I won't work with them in France due to "past differences" with the MD of Hornby France but fortunately have found a wholesaler that will work with me, at least until he retires. They could have taken over Jouef first time round instead of letting it go to Lima. A wasted opportunity as Jouef, historically a cheap trainset brand, had started to produce some good stuff which could very well have been switched to the Hornby brand as Hornby-Acho was always a premium brand here in France. I "bash", and have done for 30 years now, because I want Hornby to do well.

[rob D2]

10 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

Hornby, the company, produces loads of things that are not Hornby, the brand. Airfix, Scalextric, Corgi, etc. They're now trying to develop Bassett-Lowke as another brand that isn't directly related to normal railway modelling. If it works, that will build up the business.

Remember also that the original Hornby also made Meccano. Having non-model-railway brands has always been a part of the business. Tri-ang owned Minic, Pedigree and Frog as well as their model railway brand.  Bachmann have recently announced a range of Thunderbirds kits. This is perfectly normal. A business that wants to grow, has to have diverse product ranges. Being a single-brand company is less robust, not more.

What strikes me is that companies in general , not just Hornby , dip their toe in non core business , and then you can guarantee within years it’s “ divested as non core “.

we did this with ground handling - in, out, shake it all about .

 

constant U turns cost money .

 

I’d be in favour of the Hornby product line and supply chain being robust ( god I hate that word, police force’s of Britain’s current favourite ), before anything.

[truffy]

Agreed, Rob. While diversification can strengthen a business, more frequently it just dilutes focus and energy. 

[Coryton]

38 minutes ago, truffy said:

Agreed, Rob. While diversification can strengthen a business, more frequently it just dilutes focus and energy. 

 

So far as I can see, companies sometimes go under because their core market shrinks and they failed to diversify.

 

Others fail because they spent too much effort trying to diversify into the wrong things.

 

I don't think there's one right answer and even if diversification is usually the wrong choice I think that's a very poor reason to reject it outright as a strategy - it all depends on the individual company and its circumstances, surely?

 

Something that doesn't require much investment (which I suspect this is) and which doesn't even run the risk of polluting a major brand doesn't have great consequences if it fails but could potentially reap large rewards.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to go up against Lego though...

 

 

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

What strikes me is that companies in general , not just Hornby , dip their toe in non core business , and then you can guarantee within years it’s “ divested as non core “.

 

Hornby's core business is toys and models. It always has been. It still is. The part of that business which appeals to us is just one aspect of the core.

[MarkSG]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

You have it there in a nutshell. If you have a new product, use a new name. This product has absolutely nothing in common with the Bassett Lowke heritage.

 

The people that the Steampunk range is aimed at have no knowledge of the Bassett Lowke heritage. I suspect that Hornby decided to use the name because it has a vaguely Victorian ring to it, which fits with the product. And the steampunk stuff has obviously been successful so far, because Hornby are making more of it. 

[melmerby]

Triang from which the current Hornby is a direct decendant also made tinplate toys, push along dogs/horses on wheels, pedal cars, a Meccano look alike etc.

Hornby isn't really doing anything different.

 

One of the brands most probably have never heard of in the Hornby portfolio is Pocher:

https://uk.pocher.com/

 

They are seriously classy kits, the other end of the scale to the Bassett-Lowke branded stuff.

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

Hornby, the company, produces loads of things that are not Hornby, the brand. Airfix, Scalextric, Corgi, etc. They're now trying to develop Bassett-Lowke as another brand that isn't directly related to normal railway modelling. If it works, that will build up the business.

Remember also that the original Hornby also made Meccano. Having non-model-railway brands has always been a part of the business. Tri-ang owned Minic, Pedigree and Frog as well as their model railway brand.  Bachmann have recently announced a range of Thunderbirds kits. This is perfectly normal. A business that wants to grow, has to have diverse product ranges. Being a single-brand company is less robust, not more.

I agree absolutely with those comments but, and it is a massively important but, a company needs to do it properly and understand the likely markets and g how to get into those markets in a profitable manner.  and regrettably Hornby haven't been too good at that and in some cases (e.g. Humbrol) they've had a poor record of sustaining the image and quality of a brand which they have taken over.   Airfix has, so it is rumoured, done massively well over the past year and seems to understand what it is about as a brand so Hornby Group isn't entirely bereft of capability.

 

However the crunch will come with the announcement of this current trading year's results.  Hornby group is going to have to turn in some very good numbers even if it's growth in sales is to match what some model shops achieved during Lockdown 1 (20% year-on-year growth in the value of sales, Hornby didn't achieve that - for whatever reasons).  Hornby would have done an great  job if they match Lego's growth in sales value and overall profit over 2020 .  There are no doubt some investors who would regard Hornby overall as being in the same sort of general market as Lego with particularly over the past year, a major opportunity to tap a hitherto largely non-existent additional home-based hobbies market.  Part of grabbing that market will have been down to brand familiarity - which Hornby has in massive quantities - part to nostalgia (Hornby overall is in an excellent position there), and having the right things to sell at the right time.  Lego did that with staggering success in 2020 - 21% increase in consumer sales (just over twice the worldwide average in the 'toy' sector), 13% increase in overall revenues, and 19% increase in operating profits.

 

And alas Steampunk maybe was a good idea but like some of Hornby's past 'market exploitation' ideas the gap between relatively timely announcement and delivery (the latter also suffering from Covid difficulties so out of Hornby's control) has got any sort of market presence timing all wrong.  If a company is going to innovate it has to be timely as well as original and not a copy cat if it wants to create new markets.  Hornby could do that if it wanted to - there are numerous model railway markets out there which could still be tapped or even created but as the Titfield saga has shown Hornby simply isn't nimble enough on its feet when it needs to be.  What price TT3 (to high quality standards)?; what about even more control innovation (although Hornby are catching up in that area)?; what price exploitation of the Late Victorian/Edwardian era?  Yes the latter is a crowded market but it is clearly one where innovation and careful subject choice works.  The message has to be get your innovation right in areas which are exploitable and profitable and i don't think that means sticking bits of plastic and some of the cheapest models in your range. 

[Steamport Southport]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Then you clearly haven’t read much, because a huge number of good words have been said and written about him, some of it bordering on hagiography, to the degree where it is actually very difficult to form a well-balanced picture of him.

 

The key fact is though, that with Greenly’s able assistance, he effectively founded the hobby of model railways.

 

You meant the same man who was a member of the Fabian Society* and believed in the implication of eugenics? His politics weren't exactly those that I would wish to be associated with either.

 

He was also a ruthless businessman who ripped off loads of people.

 

So yes I have read about Wenman Joseph Bassett-Lowke, the man and I will reiterate my idea that people are looking at it through rose tinted glasses and only concentrating on his toy trains.

 

It's like saying Henry Ford made good cars and Walt Disney was a good animator. That is true. But they were also both dreadful people.

 

I would put Bassett Lowke in the same category as those two, good for a brand name, but are they really nice people that should be being put on a pedestal as being great men?

 

 

*As it was at the time. It's policies may have changed since.

 

 

Jason