Hornby goes Steampunk in 2020

[Nearholmer]

Oddly enough, this didn’t start as a defence of the man, but a defence of the brand-name against trivialisation.

 

But, if you have never read a good word said about him, you really must have overlooked some very important sources, because several are chock-full of praise for him, rather skating-over the flaws that there undoubtedly were in his character (and whose character doesn’t have the odd flaw?).

 

As to his Fabianism, I tend to the view that was one of his more positive facets, and I think that writing-off all Fabians as eugenecists is at the very least misleading.

 

The view I’ve personally formed of him so far is that he seems to have achieved many good things, and done much good, but also to have been vain, and occasionally perversely vindictive, but there is a heck of a lot that I still can’t fathom, notably about the intent behind the way the B-L ‘family’ of businesses was structured, how much that was informed by an ethic of not wanting to create hierarchical structures, and how much by wanting to limit personal risk-exposure. He was certainly a very complicated person indeed, and probably the sort of person that you had either to take on their terms, or no at all.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Nearholmer

[truffy]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Bassett-Lowke himself sullied what reputation he did have with some very sharp practices back in the day. I've never seen a good word written about the man.

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

So yes I have read about Wenman Joseph Bassett-Lowke, the man and I will reiterate my idea that people are looking at it through rose tinted glasses and only concentrating on his toy trains.

 

IMO, it's only the toy trains that are at all relevant to the BL brand moving.

The man himself is long-dead, and irrelevant to the majority of people...those who don't have a bona against him, that is.

Edited April 15, 2021 by truffy

[PaulRhB]

As usual any story about people from history you can be selective in facts viewed from different points of view

 
Is Bassett Lowke as a brand anything to do with the original company apart from rose tinted spectacles? No, it’s just a marketing name since it was resurrected for the tinplate range under Corgi. If they’d reintroduced that with some steampunk inspired models done in a similar vein to the ETS Hornby commissions it would have had a bit more class certainly but Hornby weren’t targeting adult collectors. 
An OO caricature of their old O stuff on the SJ chassis in glossy liveries with some Art Deco / Victoriana additions in the range would have hooked me but It did give me ideas that slowly simmer away. To be honest their teak generic coaches would be perfect as they are in that range. 

[HonestTom]

I don't think Hornby diversifying into Lego-type bricks is a stupid idea. Their brand is about creativity and construction. But I do think the way they're going about it is a little confusing. The Bassett Lowke steampunk range was established as something aimed at adults, and it seemed to lean a little towards the war gaming market. Who is this aimed at? It looks like it's aimed at kids, which doesn't fit with the rest of the BL range. If it's aimed at adults, it's a little basic - it kind of reminds me of Lego sets from the 70s. It has no compatibility with the rest of the range.

 

I have to say, it doesn't even look all that steampunk in terms of design and colouring. For comparison, here's the Lego Adventurers range that came out in 1998. It's not exactly steampunk (more Indiana Jones/The Mummy with elements of Victorian and Edwardian adventure novels), but it's the same kind of ballpark. And the aesthetic is very strong - you can instantly tell what they're going for. With the Hornby version, I get the same feeling that I got with the earlier releases - like they were given a rough description of what steampunk is, but no one involved is really into it.

 

I may be getting into froth territory here, but I think a better course for Hornby would be to aim for Lego-style sets more in line with their other brands. Something Lego do for adult collectors is sets based on real life vehicles, such as this one. Hornby could do likewise. There's a substantial community of people, mostly adults, modelling prototypical trains using Lego components, and that would be a great market for Hornby to get into. Wouldn't a Lego A4 look fantastic?

 

My suggestion would be to come up with a whole new brand for the bricks, but market them as being "in association with." For instance, trains could be sold as "in association with Hornby," road vehicles "in association with Corgi," military vehicles "in association with Airfix" etc. That way, they could trade off their brands without diluting them.

Edited April 16, 2021 by HonestTom

[atom3624]

Almost like 'somebody' didn't like Bassett-Lowke when growing up - not exactly the image I would have imagined.

 

It could have been a brilliant precursor to the Hornby equivalent of Dapol and Heljan - the Hornby 'O-Gauge brand' I reckon.

 

It is what it is.

 

Hornby's stickle bricks!!

 

Al.

[sparky66]

I've no problem with Hornby diversifying, but do kids really want fake lego of weird looking steampunk machines? Not to mention fans of the steampunk niche seem to be older and looking for higher quality and detail, these look like a mix between the sort of basic lego contraptions I built as a kid from spare parts and the earlier basic 70s lego kits. I'm sure Hornby has done their research but still, this seems like an odd one to me and I won't be surprised if these flop.

 

I will say though that the lego style idea fits much better in the Airfix range, with fairly good block based representations of aircraft and vehicles not offered by anyone else. Meanwhile every Chinese rip-off manufacturer out there is offering weird looking fantasy vehicles.

Edited April 15, 2021 by sparky66

[eldomtom2]

21 hours ago, Coryton said:

I don't think that companies (Chinese or otherwise) making bricks that use the Lego system are infringing any of Lego's rights, so long as they don't write "Lego" on them of course. I think part of the brick design was patented but that's run out now.

The brick is not protected. The famous minifigure design, however, is (under trademark law), and these figures are clearly infringing on it. Presumably the original Chinese company was selling to a domestic audience and thus could avoid attention, but Hornby could very well be looking at a lawsuit.

[No Decorum]

21 hours ago, rob D2 said:

last time they did it too a great extent it didn’t do them much good ( 2012 Olympic tat anyone .Got me a rhymic gymanastics taxi for junior ).

 

That was between Kohler periods though, so maybe they know what they are doing with him back at the helm 

Funny you should mention that. My reaction was that Hornby had brought back Frank (Ratner) Martin.

 

As for Hornby knowing what it is doing with Kohler back at the helm, let me whisper A2/2 and Class 87.

[Coryton]

Just now, eldomtom2 said:

The brick is not protected. The famous minifigure design, however, is (under trademark law), and these figures are clearly infringing on it. Presumably the original Chinese company was selling to a domestic audience and thus could avoid attention, but Hornby could very well be looking at a lawsuit.

 

It would be very unfortunate if Hornby were naive enough to get themselves into that sort of trouble.

[sparky66]

You know what they could have done that would have been neat and fit in well with the previous Basset-Lowke releases? Offer basic motorised 00 locomotive chassis and wagon chassis, with lego nubs on top. So you can essentially build your own locomotives and wagons with lego bricks on top. They could have made some bespoke lego style locomotive parts to mix and match, plus kids could add real lego parts into the mix to expand it. They could even take the range beyond steampunk, offering it as an extension to Hornby 00 with 'build your own' locomotives and wagons for kids that run on standard 00 track. Now that would be a way of combining Lego and Hornby's existing brands in a fun and complementary manner, I know I would have loved that as a kid.

[eldomtom2]

That would require them to put money into this beyond that required for new boxes.

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Funny you should mention that. My reaction was that Hornby had brought back Frank (Ratner) Martin.

 

As for Hornby knowing what it is doing with Kohler back at the helm, let me whisper A2/2 and Class 87.

I don’t keep up with steam - was there an issue ? And class 87 was well received ?

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, sparky66 said:

You know what they could have done that would have been neat and fit in well with the previous Basset-Lowke releases? Offer basic motorised 00 locomotive chassis and wagon chassis, with lego nubs on top. So you can essentially build your own locomotives and wagons with lego bricks on top. They could have made some bespoke lego style locomotive parts to mix and match, plus kids could add real lego parts into the mix to expand it. They could even take the range beyond steampunk, offering it as an extension to Hornby 00 with 'build your own' locomotives and wagons for kids that run on standard 00 track. Now that would be a way of combining Lego and Hornby's existing brands in a fun and complementary manner, I know I would have loved that as a kid.

 

I think it's a great idea. I don't think the stud spacing plays that well with typical 00 clearances, but it would fix excellently with the PlayTrains range.

 

Proper Lego trains are nice but really quite pricey.

 

I made something like that myself some years ago by butchering Maerklin My World trucks and screwing Lego plates to them.....and then Maerklin came out with something rather like it themselves.

 

 

[298]

...and they already use a brick system in their Quickbuild Corgi models. 

 

I was so surprised to see these today that I had to take a photo...

 

 

[Coryton]

16 minutes ago, 298 said:

...and they already use a brick system in their Quickbuild Corgi models. 

 

I was so surprised to see these today that I had to take a photo...

 

 

Just glue some gears on it.....

[Tartaruga]

On 06/01/2020 at 11:56, HonestTom said:

I like the idea, not so hot on the execution. It feels like it was designed by someone who's seen someone else's idea of steampunk and taken it from there. Just a bunch of bits stuck on to already-existing not necessarily Victorian rolling stock.

 

And now Hornby seem to have done the same thing again with the 'Brickpunk'. Good idea but poor execution. Can they really expect to compete with Lego with something so basic?

Both @Corbs and @TangoOscarMike , among others, have managed to produce more inspired Steampunk locos; why is it so difficult for a large company to not keep relying on their four wheel carriages and Smokey Joe engine rather than producing something imaginative?

Coming back to the hobby years later to find the same models being touted that I had when I was a child was a real surprise, and yet for a much larger price. I'm trying to get my child, who only really knows Italian railways, interested in model railways but there is such a dearth of exciting models.

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

The brick is not protected. The famous minifigure design, however, is (under trademark law), and these figures are clearly infringing on it. Presumably the original Chinese company was selling to a domestic audience and thus could avoid attention, but Hornby could very well be looking at a lawsuit.

If you look closely at Hornbys ‘minifiggures’ it becomes apparent that there are a number of small but significant differences with the Lego design. Just as with Hornbys close couplers (which are basically identical to the Roco originals apart from a key dimension) it’s perfectly possible to create what might be termed ‘generic’ mini figures that are sufficiently different from ‘genuine’ Lego ones to avoid Lawyers getting involved.

[eldomtom2]

19 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

If you look closely at Hornbys ‘minifiggures’ it becomes apparent that there are a number of small but significant differences with the Lego design. Just as with Hornbys close couplers (which are basically identical to the Roco originals apart from a key dimension) it’s perfectly possible to create what might be termed ‘generic’ mini figures that are sufficiently different from ‘genuine’ Lego ones to avoid Lawyers getting involved.

Trademarks do not work that way, as their original purpose was to avoid confusion between the products of different companies. The figures that Hornby is marketing are clearly close enough to Lego minifigures that an argument that a customer could be confused could be made. Lego has won in court against manufacturers of figures more different from Lego minifigures that Hornby's ones are.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, 298 said:

...and they already use a brick system in their Quickbuild Corgi models. 

 

I was so surprised to see these today that I had to take a photo...

 

 

What scale are they?

[F-UnitMad]

Hornby Steampunk, & now Hornby 'lego' steampunk.... what is that sound I can hear??

 

Ah, it's the sound of the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

[No Decorum]

6 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I don’t keep up with steam - was there an issue ? And class 87 was well received ?

Steam: several. Class 87: poor control of lights and provision for DCC decoder and speaker very poor. Essentially brand new and out of date; although it wouldn’t bother DC users or those without OHLE.

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, 298 said:

...and they already use a brick system in their Quickbuild Corgi models. 

 

I was so surprised to see these today that I had to take a photo...

 

 

Just think: someone designed and built the Antikythera mechanism over two thousand years ago. 

[Coryton]

14 hours ago, Tartaruga said:

 

And now Hornby seem to have done the same thing again with the 'Brickpunk'. Good idea but poor execution. Can they really expect to compete with Lego with something so basic?

Both @Corbs and @TangoOscarMike , among others, have managed to produce more inspired Steampunk locos; why is it so difficult for a large company to not keep relying on their four wheel carriages and Smokey Joe engine rather than producing something imaginative?

 

Because basing them on their 4 wheel carriages and Smokey Joe engines meant they could come up with something speculative without investing too much money in it?

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

Because basing them on their 4 wheel carriages and Smokey Joe engines meant they could come up with something speculative without investing too much money in it?

Or because it created a far better margin for them.  So win-win being cheap to develop and tool up plus a very good margin of retail price over production/distribution costs.   If it works then great but if it doesn't work it still amounts to a loss,  just not such a big one perhaps.

[Hroth]

I know we're all being pretty sniffy about "Brickpunk", but its not aimed at us, is it?

 

Its an ideal product to get into the non-railway toy sellers, "Bassett-Lowke" sounds just like a made up Victorian/Edwardian name and will fit into the quirky present mould*, especially if the gauge of the bricks (interlocking, etc) matches the Lego universe. 

 

* I remember being given a "lego-like" set of building bricks when a child, and was disappointed when I found the size of the bricks was "just off" the dimensions of a standard Lego brick.