Nellie's New Railway - A 1963 BLT

[Nearholmer]

I think it had crematorium facilities .........

 

There was another branch nearby, on the other side of the main line, which served Bisley NRA camp grounds, and that I think was built to fairly mainline standards, to allow through working, like the cemetery branch.

 

Need to remind myself of the history, and go for a field visit once the days are long/dry enough to permit a decent bike ride round the district. Its a long time since I did more than pass through.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Talking of the Bisley NRA line, it had an absolutely beautiful little steam tram engine https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca7SmFZWIAAczuT.jpg  

 

I think this little baby might have worked the temporary lines around the camp ground and ranges that was used only during the annual jamboree, but it might have gone up (steeply) to Brookwood station before the line was upgraded during WW1, as I say, need to remind myself.

 

The NRA moved to Bisley from Wimbledon Common as that area became too populous for safe shooting, and I think they owned the tram loco and bought it with them. Their track at Wimbledon was certainly used a an ephemeral concern called the Electric Motor Syndicate in the early 1880s to test electric traction ...... its not very well recorded, but from what I can work out  from odd newspaper clippings the experiment involved rigging a small dynamo (operating in motor mode) to one of the open passenger cars, and collecting current using two trailing chains which contacted conductors laid in wooden troughs between the rails .......... the sparking must have been tremendous. It sounds faintly mad, but the guys involved were serious engineers, many of whom went on to have prominent careers in electric traction.

 

The NRA also had some brilliant target trolleys for use on the tramway, things like life-size silhouettes of deer, which would make pretty unusual bits of rolling stock on a layout!

 

Was it standard gauge at that stage though?? I really need to check.

 

EDIT: Nope, looks like 3' 6", bit more info here https://www.tramwayinfo.com/Tramframe.htm?https://www.tramwayinfo.com/trampostcards/Postc225.htm 

 

EDIT AGAIN: Yes, it looks as if the LSWR laid-in the main-line connection in 1890, the year after the NRA moved from Wimbledon, and an OS map surveyed before all the changes of WW1 shows a basic SG terminus, plus a separate NG line (with shed for the tram) out to the ranges proper. It all looks like huge fun!

Edited January 7, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

This is interesting https://lightwater.wordpress.com/2018/10/31/the-bisley-station-a-new-carriage-for-lloyds-bank-rifle-club/

 

I definitely feel a visit coming on.

 

Donkeys years ago, in the  late 1970s, I went poking around there and convinced myself I'd found a bit of the old tramway, but whether I had or not, I'm not sure. At the time, the Basingstoke canal along there was under restoration, and there was a NG railway offshoot of the restoration group, operating an ex-MoD 2ft gauge Hudson-Hunslet loco and a string of skips on mud-shifting duty - the loco was part of a collection that I think is now housed at a nearby rural life museum.

[Nearholmer]

More "back story", because it helps to have in mind a place and a history:

 

This is (genuinely) from The London Gazette in 1904, and it is this railway that I will take as the prototype.

 

Light Railway Commission.—July, 1904.

The Light Railways Act, 1896.

WOKING AND BAGSHOT LIGHT

RAILWAY.

ALTERATION OF WORKS.

NOTICE is hereby given that application is

_Li intended to be made to the Light Railway

Commissioners by the West Surrey Light Railways

Company Limited, for power to make

alterations in the line of railway and works proposed

to be authorized by the Order under the

above short title for which application was duly

made to the Light Railway Commissioners by the

aforesaid Company in November, 1903.

 

The final version of the LRO was granted early in 1906, which evidences that this was a bit more than a completely fantastic scheme, and all the plans and sections rest quietly in Surrey CRO.

 

It was intended to be an electric "interurban", running partly on reserved rights of way and partly at the roadside in rural areas, becoming effectively a street tramway once into urban Woking, and it was to have its own small generating station, logically located near the centre of the route, to allow equality of volt-drop when distributing power in each direction. such plans were common at the time, and few actually came to fruition, my favourite being this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinver_Light_Railway

 

Most failed at the outset, because electric traction in pre-grid days required a lot of capital to build the generating station and other infrastructure, and the operating economics were questionable if the traffic was very light - the electric model really only worked in urban or suburban areas with heavier traffic, or where the railway owned lots of building land and urban sprawl could be encouraged.

 

So, The WSLR, which actually never got built, is envisaged to have begun construction at the country end (Bagshot), wandered off into comfy countryside, and run out of money in the middle of nowhere at a place called Valley End (a bit off the true authorised route, but it has huge sentimental associations for me), with track, but no electrification, in place. The LSWR is a major creditor, because it hasn't been paid for the connection to its line at Bagshot, and ends-up owning the white elephant, upon which it provides a service while trying to make-up its mind whether to complete the thing or not.

 

 

We are in 1911, so everything still looks fresh, despite the terminus having originated as a contractor's temporary construction depot.

 

Style set: buildings to be "Edwardian Temporary" type, except for the station building itself, which is "Edwardian Light Railway" (much the same, but a bit more trim, and painted instead of creosoted), having been provided by the LSWR itself.

 

A feeling for the area can be got from this excellent website, which includes photos taken in 1911. https://valleyend150.wordpress.com/tag/st-saviours-church-valley-end/page/1/ Three of my uncles were married in the church in question, and I used to go to feed the pigs in the farm directly opposite.

 

Not sure yet whether the station is called 'Valley End', which sounds picturesque and might draw day-trippers from London, or 'Chobham Road', or plays the trick of calling itself "Valley End (For Chobham)".

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

I don't recall Valley End but it is quite near a lot of places I would go, Virginia Water, Finchampstead, Crowthorne, Camberley, either with my Parents as a boy or later on cycle or motorcycle. Should make a nice layout. 

We did walk from Wolverly Nr Kidderminster along the canal before taking a footpath up to Kinver Edge which was the reason for the tramway. Edwardians would enjoy a stiff walk up onto the edge  to see the views. Worth it today if you are in the area. It is NT owned. The canal near woverly is worth a view too being cut into the side of red sandstone.

Don 

[Nearholmer]

I doubt if many people even notice Valley End, let alone recall it, because it is nothing more than a thin scattering of cottages, a few farms, a church and a primary school. Hidden away, there were several very large houses, each with a small estate, and my grandfather was head gardener at what I think was the last one of these to be built (cWW1) and the last to survive in the 'old order'. His Lordship was 'new in post' and had inherited very young (I think he is now the longest or second longest sitting peer in the HoL) and a curiosity was that his lavish Hornby Dublo layout was still intact from his boyhood ....... my grandmother and the cook used to sneak me in to play with it (under tight supervision).

 

We used to catch the Aldershot & District Traction 'bus (tickets must be shewn) into Woking or to Sunningdale Station, from where we would walk to Virginia Water and have a picnic while fearsome dark-red wood ants picnicked on us.

 

I was utterly saddened to learn recently that their cottage, a fair-sized late arts and crafts place, which my grandmother used to polish to a degree that made the front steps and hallway dangerously slippery, has been swept away and replaced by a really uninteresting house and garages, all over what was grandfather's golf practice green and personal vegetable garden (produce from the 'big house' garden was 'theirs' unless specifically given).

 

Such is nostalgia!

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Skinnylinny]

Goodness, catching up on this thread has been fascinating. Bisley is on the fictional Great Southern Railway, with the line's terminus, Linton Town, taking the place of various firing ranges in the real world. It's interesting to see another T Bowler wagon, as I recently built the POWSides kit (a pre-liveried Slaters kit, numbered 1). Is yours an Oxford one? It looks longer than mine, possibly an RCH 1923 design? 

That tram engine is an absolute beauty! Unfortunately that means that I no longer have a reason not to include a narrow gauge interchange on Linton. I've been trying to tell myself I don't need it, that it'll make things too cluttered... Oh dear...

[Nearholmer]

Linny

 

I had an inkling that your empire was set in the area. The Surrey Heaths are a good blankish canvas for the pre-grouper.

 

You've got a wide choice of gauges, because there was the range tramway for passenger carrying at 3'6", several interconnected target trolley lines in the butts at 2' (there was a Lister loco on these in the 1970s, but I think they were originally man/donkey hauled), plus, a bit further SW, the Surrey Border and Camberley at 10.25" (??), although that was a 1930s innovation.

 

The Bowler wagon is Oxford Rail, and the reason that I asked questions about it is that I suspect that it isn't entirely kosher; not bad, but not perfect. But, what is it reasonable to expect from a r-t-r product that cost about 1.5x the cover price of the Railway Modeller?

 

Kevin

[Donw]

While there is an element of Nostalgia when old buildings are replaced but there is also the fact that the modern buildings lack ornamentation and rely on structure and form. However structure and form need to be viewed from a distance whereas the earlier more ornamented styles can be easier to relate to closer up.  It is just a pity when good examples of earlier styles get swept away with modern buildings of little architectural value.

 

Don 

[Edwardian]

On 06/01/2020 at 12:33, Nearholmer said:

Iteration No.978, which isn’t anything like a piano!

 

Sketched this while eating my lunch, and I think it has a lot going for it ....... more yer ordinary BLT, and it seems to balance OK.

 

 

 

On 07/01/2020 at 12:45, Nearholmer said:

I can imagine the Ladybirds as just about stretching to a modest BL layout, although I have to say that I’d never really thought of either of them as having a tendency towards decadence. Mrs L certainly looks rather ‘prim and proper’, but I suppose it could be a case of ‘what goes on behind closed doors’.

 

Anyhow, enough curtain-twitching for one day, and back to the Nelliebahn.

 

The plan of yesterday certainly looks good when laid out, so I thinks it’s time to start pinning track to boards. The FY will simply be 2ft lengths of set-track, used as sliding cassettes for now (which probably means forever knowing me). The carriage shed road can probably protrude under the lane in a hidden tunnel, to emerge in the FY area and act as a bit of extra storage too.

 

I had to take a ‘long crossing’ back to the shop to exchange for the bits of set-track, and with the balance got a wagon to help check clearances, lengths etc.

 

 

It seems to have wooden sole bars, the livery looks plausible, but has it got too much in the way of brake-gear, and should the tops of the ends be slightly raised in a curve? Advice welcome, providing that it falls short of “take it back to the shop”.

 

The merchant was based a bit far from Dorset, so maybe the Nelliebahn will have to move to somewhere in Surrey, maybe as the never-completed stub of the electric 'interurban'LR that was supposed to go across Chobham Common. https://wokinghistory.org/onewebmedia/151023.pdf  That might involve rethinking the exit to the FY a bit, because that area doesnt have any really steep hills ....... there is a bit called 'The Steep' near where what used to be my grandparent's cottage is, but it is only steep by local standards!

 

Lunch today is a bagel, in case anyone is interested.

 

 

 

Love the plan.

 

The fact that a 1923 RCH wagon is registered to the LSWR is not the only clue that this wagon is pure Oxb0ll0cks. I cannot now find the reference, but I seem to recall the prototype dated from c.1895.  I have seen a picture and can confirm that the only thing it has in common with the model is that both have 4 wheels and 5 planks!

 

Never mind.  we are not going for excessive prototype fidelity with this one, are we? 

 

The main thing is that it looks to be huge fun.

[Nearholmer]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Oxb0ll0cks

 

My grandmother figures a lot in this nostalgic ramble, and even that reminds me of her.

 

How, you might ask?

 

Well, she used to buy them by the pound, boil them up in a big pot, making possibly the most stomach-churning smell ever in the process, and feed them to her cat.

 

 

[Northroader]

Lucky old Tiddles, send me the recipe.

[Nearholmer]

Well, it’s the first part that’s challenging, after that it’s just cooking.

 

1. Catch a bull.

2. Using a large pair of gardening shears .....

 

(I think this is where the American management buzz-phrase ‘low hanging fruit’ originates from)

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

the Surrey Border and Camberley at 10.25" (??)

Indeed. One of its locos, although much modified, is still in existence.

 

https://www.royalvictoriarailway.co.uk/steam-engines

[ian]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

..several interconnected target trolley lines in the butts at 2' (there was a Lister loco on these in the 1970s, but I think they were originally man/donkey hauled)...

 

 

An ideal job for an ex-WD armoured Simplex!

[Nearholmer]

You’d think so, wouldn’t you, but it was a loco of the ‘four lengths of angle-iron and a lawn-mower engine’ variety, without any cover at all. Whether the donkeys wore armour, I don’t know.

 

Nellie has stripped-off and done a bit of exercise this evening.

 

 

By three-pole motor and 20:1 gearing standards she runs well, although she occasionally fails to start perfectly after reversal, which I don’t think is due to a fault, it’s just the limitations of the design. At slow shunting speed, the motor is still visibly cogging.

 

To get her to run through the points, I had to open b-t-b up by a gnat’s, and, as St Enedoc warned, the ‘short crossing’ has to be taken at a trot, because the loco wheelbase and the plastic bits in the crossing coincide perfectly for about 1mm, which is enough to cause a dead stop if going slowly.
 

This will all work, but I anticipate that the fun of coaxing Nellie along will quickly pall, so I’ve asked bro to hunt for the Dock Shunter, to see if that is less finicky ..... we used to rate it as a very good runner, but maybe that was relative to our other (jumble sale purchase) locos.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Metropolitan H]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Indeed. One of its locos, although much modified, is still in existence.

 

https://www.royalvictoriarailway.co.uk/steam-engines

You might also have mentioned the large collection of HCS Bullock locos from the SBCR that are now kept in superb condition at the Eastleigh "Lakeside Miniature Railway" (see http://www.steamtrain.co.uk/locomotives ).

 

 

They had a special day on 16th June 2018 with at least three SBCR locos in steam with other similar Bullock locos - it was magnificent.

 

The Beyer Garratts later existence at Shillingstone was interesting - the railway was built to serve the pig farm - but it had some tightish curves, so the Beyer didn't see much use.

 

Regards

Chris H

Edited January 8, 2020 by Metropolitan H

[St Enodoc]

39 minutes ago, Metropolitan H said:

You might also have mentioned the large collection of HCS Bullock locos from the SBCR that are now kept in superb condition at the Eastleigh "Lakeside Miniature Railway" (see http://www.steamtrain.co.uk/locomotives ).

 

 

They had a special day on 16th June 2018 with at least three SBCR locos in steam with other similar Bullock locos - it was magnificent.

 

The Beyer Garratts later existence at Shillingstone was interesting - the railway was built to serve the pig farm - but it had some tightish curves, so the Beyer didn't see much use.

 

Regards

Chris H

Thanks Chris. Having been away for so long I didn't know that ELSR was dual-gauge now.

[Nearholmer]

If Nellie ever feels in need of assistance, which ten-a-penny train set 0-4-0ST could easily be altered to look passably like this LSWR locomotive? 

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/i-ZTz9Ltq/A

 

Answers on a postcard to: Smokey Joe, c/o Hornby, Margate, Kent.

 

 

 

[uax6]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 22:50, Nearholmer said:

 

 

To get her to run through the points, I had to open b-t-b up by a gnat’s, and, as St Enedoc warned, the ‘short crossing’ has to be taken at a trot, because the loco wheelbase and the plastic bits in the crossing coincide perfectly for about 1mm, which is enough to cause a dead stop if going slowly.
 

This will all work, but I anticipate that the fun of coaxing Nellie along will quickly pall, so I’ve asked bro to hunt for the Dock Shunter, to see if that is less finicky ..... we used to rate it as a very good runner, but maybe that was relative to our other (jumble sale purchase) locos.

 

Looking at the bodyless chassis, and bearing in mind that shes mint, would you object to fitting a pair of rail spoons for picking directly off the rails, somewhere near the middle of the chassis? I doubt that they would be seen, and your stalling would then be reduced.

 

Andy G

[Nearholmer]

I don’t want to mess this one up, but yes, I plan to do that if I can see a way to do it by pure addition.

 

I’ve made such things before very successfully, by making sure that the ‘shoe arm’ is a long piece of very thin phosphor bronze, so that it flexes very gently.

 

This little thing was a plastic kit, light as a feather, with plastic wheels, and it used to run splendidly thanks to track wipers. I sold it for quite a sum, because people who saw it were amazed that it worked!

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Nearholmer

[uax6]

Can you solder it to the back of the wiper pick-ups? The earth side could be fitted under a screw head I suppose, both removable..

 

Andy G

[Nearholmer]

The best arrangement is to have an arm that goes across the width, with a shoe on the end, which gets awkward on this soft of chassis, because the +ve wiper has to be fixed at the -ve side and vice-versa ...... it’s easiest to use a carrier-plate made from copperclad.

 

Once I’ve laid the track, I will turn to such things.

 

At worst, I just get a busted-up loco, overhaul the mech and do the pick-up work, and swap the chassis.

[rockershovel]

Why not attach a shunter’s truck and have extra collection from that? 

[Nearholmer]

Nellie wishes me to respond that she regards herself as a ‘proper engine’, not a ‘mere shunter’.

 

She has a sister now, too.

 

I bagged another Nellie and a Jinty For a very good price at the CMRA show today, and could have had miles of Super 4 track and two coaches in the same box ‘all in’, but I’ve got too much junk already.

 

 

Both were full of hair and fluff, with liberally oiled commutators, but it’s taken me less than half an hour to get them both working ...... the Jinty won’t be refurbished, but will donate its motors as a spare.

 

The ‘new’ Nellie (a Polly, I think) has a pigeon-toed gait, but runs OK, and will run better after a more thorough cleaning. Whether I can ‘true’ the wheels is another matter, because once the bushes are ‘out’, they are hard to correct. New bushes maybe? Her housing has only a couple of tiny chips in it, so whether to take a saw to it, I haven’t decided.