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Nearholmer

Nellie's New Railway - A 1963 BLT

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Blue = Nellie, the classic one, R335B

Red = Polly, the jolly one, R335R

Yellow = Connie, the rare one, R335Y

Green = 27, the common one, R335G (see what they're doing there!)

 

Then there's also 7178 in faux-S&DJR colours:

 

1038380393_HPPeckettW4DandNellie.JPG.f14116d3dedfbdff102334dced2099e9.JPG

 

R255, bucking the trend. (And isn't our Nellie a big girl?) There was also another red one, 25550, stablemate to the Lord Westwood? - R455.

 

 

Snap!

 

I went in search of my childhood Nellie over the weekend and eventually found her at the damp end of the Castle Aching shed.  She ran perfectly on the test track.

 

IMG_6134.JPG.61fe91db2721de0c9b57296a3d88cff5.JPG

 

My first layout was an oval 6'x4' format. Builder Plus Haworth station on one of the long sides, a tunnel over one of the short ends, a spur to a pit head in the centre.

 

Nellie was the first, and last, Hornby locomotive that I had, until Modern Times.

 

Here we see Nellie in her youth on an Up Local.  The shape of things to come in the form of the Airfix Large Prairie is in the background on the Down line.  I note a derailed static Airfix Pug on the shed road ....

 

685168739_IMG_6149-Copy.JPG.e5f4b2a167d4b71ccd12cc4e9cebfa15.JPG

 

In these Olden Tymes, it soon became clear, even to my youthful eyes, that Hornby was cack, I agitated for a new layout, better to reflect the advent of Airfix and Mainline, which were, frankly, streets ahead of what Hornby was producing.

 

Thus, I next claimed the attic and Father built a 9' long double track oval.  So, I had my mainline, where I could run the Mainline Collett Goods and the Airfix Caerphilly Castle, and my branch line, with Airfix 14XX and autocoach.

 

Yet, despite hailing from an older, simpler time, I cherished my little blue 0-4-0 (I don't think I knew they were "Nellies" at the time), so insisted on an extension to my branch line to a dairy, which, somewhat improbably, had its own little blue 0-4-0.

 

Here we see Nellie safe and sound at the New Station ....

 

839595316_IMG_6161-Copy.JPG.d57be8e9b30f2240ad9cd7f23881c806.JPG

 

And we all lived happily ever after, until, of course, I grew old enough to realise that Life was a desperate and never-ending war for survival with the odds weighted against you, and that, if poverty, disease or the All Powerful State didn't get you, there was always the existential horror of existence to keep you awake at night and drunk by noon.  Happy days. Now, where did I put that gin ... 

 

21567974_IMG_6162-Copy.JPG.d50dbcd4ca0de6602eb29309747cb1da.JPG

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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13 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The Nellies appear to be breeding


The red one is the one I got the w/e before last, which now works, but needs more work to work really well.

 

Mr H was round for a chat earlier, and conversations turned to remembrance of childhood layouts past, so there is clearly a nostalgic atmosphere today. Those were the days; when it was our parents’ job to tussle with all the darker parts of life, and ours to play. 

 

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Wagons.

 

These should be less prone to wild outbreaks of imaginative creativity than either motive power or passenger coaches.

 

I've got my name down for a r-t-r LSWR 10T Road Van, which seems perfect for a line such as this because it will work for goods, mixed and passenger trains, and is ideal for the market-garden and milk traffic. If/when rails produce an all-brake 4W passenger coach in LSWR livery, that can do the same job on a turn-and-turnabout basis.

 

We have Mr Bowler's iffy coal wagon, and I shall foist a coal business onto the local builder, copying his 20s/30s lorry livery as below (Sand colour?) onto a more suitable wagon.

 

CF1021ED-718D-4E62-BB0F-331ADC8B197F.jpeg.eaad3c1e46c76fb3b2ce17e231fd276a.jpeg

 

Cambrian make a kit for a typical LSWR closed wagon, hopefully Rails will make the SECR van, and someone must make a typical LBSCR 8T van.

 

Then an ordinary open goods wagon from each of LBSCR, LSWR and SECR, probably high-end & sheet rail/bar in each case. Not sure who makes kits for those. The obligatory MR D299 (Cambrian?).

 

That's probably about it.

 

Maybe an LSWR milk/fruit van and an LNWR one, both to appear only during the Strawberry Rush in June. I might also invent a Chrysanthemum Rush in September, in honour of my grandfather, who spent the latter part of the summer tying brown paper bags over the blooms to prevent earwig damage and managing the plants to be sure he had fresh blooms ready to cut every single day from mid-August to about mid-October.

 

Bearing in mind the marginal nature of this operation, what, if any, other goods or NPCS do we need?

 

The 'rarities' that I think might be appropriate are: a horsebox; an open carriage truck; a CCT; and, a pair of 4W timber bolsters.

Edited by Nearholmer
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One coal wagon hardly seems enough.

 

Don

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Based on a scattered population of 400, which is possibly too many, and using my usual formula of 1cwt/week per household, with average household of 2.5 persons, we get to 8 tons/week, which probably means three or four coal wagons 'in circuit', allowing our merchant unloading time, and a gentle amble to/from the colliery. In summer, the merchant will be stockpiling, so that needs to be represented.

 

Its was a weird area at the time, though, with a high proportion of the population being servants in 'big houses', a significant minority of truly dirt-poor people living in very basic cottage/huts on the common (wood fires), and nurseries with greenhouses that were probably coal or oil heated in mid-winter to keep the frost off, as well as a few farms and 'ordinary cottages', so my averages may be wide of the mark.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Wagons.

 

Cambrian make a kit for a typical LSWR closed wagon, hopefully Rails will make the SECR van, and someone must make a typical LBSCR 8T van.

 

Then an ordinary open goods wagon from each of LBSCR, LSWR and SECR, probably high-end & sheet rail/bar in each case. Not sure who makes kits for those. The obligatory MR D299 (Cambrian?).

 

The 'rarities' that I think might be appropriate are: a horsebox; an open carriage truck; a CCT; and, a pair of 4W timber bolsters.

 

What period are you aiming for?

 

Brighton covered goods wagon: Smallbrook Studios on a Dapol u/f - steel framed, good, I think, for the Ashbury batch of 1900/1, or 5&9 for a Stroudley 1878-89 van in whitemetal.

 

Brighton Open A: 5&9 for the Stroudley ones, Cambrian for later ones (backdatable to 1898/1902 built ones) or there's a 3D print around for the turn-of-the-century steel-framed ones

LSWR and SECR opens: the Cambrian ones are late pre-grouping - 1910s or 20s.

 

Slaters for the D299.

 

A rural location would surely generate some livestock traffic? Also unsawn timber going out for your timber trucks.

Edited by Compound2632

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Thank you. Very helpful.

 

I should have thought of livestock: dairy cows. must find out about breeds.

 

The area would have got a poultry farm as soon as the LRO opened too, so more perishables to London markets.

 

The LRO was finally granted in 1906, so a couple of years to build it, go bankrupt and fall into the arms of the LSWR, so c1908 to the early part of WW1, nominally 1910-11. This fits with a couple the more sensible loco options: The Terriers were kicking about doing not much, having been found wanting at Lyme Regis and not yet been reconditioned for use on the Chard Branch; and, the S14 class, the slightly bigger and less-silly Nellies, were built in 1910.

 

A local photographer also captured several really good images in the area at that date, notably at Coronation parties, so I know what people looked like. The Coronation was in the strawberry season too, so maybe I could string bunting all over the station! It was a flaming hot summer, which sounds nice too - it was hotter and drier than 1976, which is saying something.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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Returning to fantasy motive power, one of the few options for electrified light railways not mentioned so far is what the Americans call a ‘freight motor’ or 'baggage motor', and the Germans a schlepptriebwagen. I don’t know what they’re called elsewhere [fourgon-automoeur; fourgon automotrice; locomotive-fourgon], but our nearest equivalent is a motor luggage van.

 

Here is one that appears to have been recycled from a wrecked boat.

 

645BF4E0-BA5F-4B3F-BB3A-66A9CF52FB5B.jpeg.5de43b577fd49ac693a4d92c139b190f.jpeg

 

This is the fairly macho LBSCR version, which sat in the middle of two 3-sets with cabs at the outer ends.

 

EF676971-2126-44B6-8FDD-2D4A8B2A2313.jpeg.6909f13256d0456f16acd58778838d33.jpeg

 

Very useful things these, providing guard and small goods accommodation, and able to haul passenger, goods or a combination. The LBSCR ones were exceptionally powerful for the breed at 4x250=1000hp, and 2x180=360hp should meet our needs.

 

Unusually, the NER had rabbits qualified as motormen/women/bunnies to drive theirs.

 

NER Electric Motor Luggage Van: 3267 Stephenson Railway Museum

 

 

The L&Y had one on the Southport Line, presumably driven by Diddymen, although I can’t find a picture.
 

The Manx Electric has one that was a cattle car ..... imagine typical LWB cattle van, with a cab glued on each end, fitted on a bogie chassis, with a trolley pole

 

What would Nine Elms or Eastleigh produce? Something looking like the steam rail motors?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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I'm attempting to have a bit of a clear-out of projects/models that I know I will never return to, actually selling things on ebay instead of buying, which should cheer-up "the domestic authority", who believes that I hog too much cupboard space.

 

I found a disintegrating old margarine tub full of bogies, if you see what I mean.

 

These are the last survivors of the US H0, which I ceased to pursue in 1996 .......... notice the price label on the packet.

 

18329166-67DA-457E-A56D-8EE4DC5D01CB.jpeg.631306b63e51f3c656a0496f019262b3.jpeg

 

Might they come in useful for this project?

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Might they come in useful for this project?

 

I'd say definitely... didn't the Weston, Clevedon and Portishead Railway have some American-style carriages?  You could have some vaguely Colonial-looking stock on bogies like these, a presumed cancelled order which your railway has purchased cheap?

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The big 'fake history' question is how far the W&BLR got as an independent concern, before falling into the embrace of the LSWR as its main creditor.

 

It definitely laid-down the more rural parts of its route, but probably not the expensive and argument-causing urban bit in Woking, but what of everything else?

 

Postulated fiction:

 

- early 1906, LRO granted (true), development land purchased in the Horsell and Knaphill areas (this is very close to true, in that speculative development did occur in these areas at this time); compulsory purchase of land for routes concluded; agreements reached with councils w.r.t. rural roadside bits; civils contracts let and grading of routes commences at several sites; specifications and invitations to tender issued for generating and substations, OHL, and electric rolling stock; negotiations start with Woking Borough Council, and go badly from the start; siding agreement with LSWR and siding/connection laid at Bagshot Station (but not paid for!); track-work contract let;

 

- 1907, route construction in rural areas progressing very well, Amendment Order allowing a branch via Windlesham to Valley End granted (LSWR and highway authority successfully oppose the continuation of this via Sunningdale to Virginia Water); more development land bought in the Burrowhill area; contract for "everything electrical" let to British Westinghouse, who crack-on at great pace; by the end of the year, the line is effectively complete from Bagshot to Horsell, Horsell to Knaphill, and Lightwater to Valley End; generating and substations are built but not yet fitted-out, and OHL poles are up across c75% of route;

 

- early in 1908, money troubles begin to bite. Allegations emerge that some of the Directors are engaged in sharp practice: they have sold their own land to the company at what some view as inflated prices, with "option to buy back at same price" clauses which they can exercise once the railway is up and running, by which stage land-values should have risen considerably. This obstructs other land sales and the start of house-building, stifling a crucial income-flow. The argument with Woking BC drags on, racking-up design and legal costs. The civil and track contractors are paid on-time, but stage payments to Westinghouse are delayed on the excuse of quality problems, and the LSWR still haven't been paid. Westinghouse do eventually get paid, and the electrification is completed on all but the Valley End branch, where the kit has been delivered but not installed and connected-up.

 

- BoT inspection of the Bagshot-Horsell-Knaphill line takes place in January 1909, but numerous concerns are raised, not helped by the electric motor car being used during the inspection repeatedly derailing on point-work. The company is now down to its last farthing, banks decline to lend to it, but the LSWR can see an income stream in-waiting, so lends a one year 'tide over' sum with the tramcars pledged as security, and provides free consultancy and engineering support using staff from the Waterloo & City Line to help with the electrical side of things. Second BoT inspection and grand opening in June ........ barely any passengers or goods ......... income about a quarter of operating expenses. Land sales/development still mired by allegations, and further stifled because commuters will want to get to Woking, for fast trains to Waterloo, not Bagshot.

 

- January 1910, the LSWR loan is due for payment, and the siding debt is still hanging. On January 24th, the LSWR becomes owner of the tramcars and a deal is signed by which it writes-off all debts and agrees to take-over the management and working of the line in exchange for 90% of receipts, plus title to all of the development land, provided that the Directors concerned relinquish their "buy back" options. By this point the shares in the W&BLR are effectively worthless, but the deal is agreed on the basis that "at least we get a working railway out of this mess".

 

- from March 1910 onwards, the W&BLR is effectively an arm of the LSWR, who appoint a keen young manager to get what he can from it, while trying to decide whether the urban section should be pursued (they can strong-arm Woking BC if need-be, in a way that the little company can't). Things rumble gently on, land-sales take-place at a managed pace, there is a burst of extra traffic during WW1 with lots of military activity in the area, then buses start to run (true, they started in 1921 along these routes), fares income collapses overnight, and the local nurserymen start to buy lorries and drive directly to London. Passenger services are withdrawn in 1922, but a sporadic goods service (coal deliveries) continues until the track is too degraded to support it. The W&BLR isn't grouped, so the goods trains are worked by the SR as successors to the LSWR for a while (they offer to hire a loco to the W&BLR, but that really consists only of a solicitor acting part-time, two old and tired "gangers", and an AGM that lasts about ten minutes at the solicitor's office).

 

What this means is that the W&BLR's main stock is electrically powered vehicles supplied by Westinghouse (probably car bodies built to US-like designs, rather than classic English double-deck trams), possibly including either a freight loco or motor-freight-car.

 

If we assume that it took an age to finish putting up the OHL to Valley End (who was going to pay for that?), we can imagine a Terrier and then an S14 (=Nellie) being used in the interim, even a B4 being tried.

 

One big final push to get electrification completed for The Coronation? Justifies both steam and electric being present.

 

Enough fiction for one lunchtime.

 

PS: any passing lawyers should check "British Westinghouse Electric Co Ltd v Underground Electric Railways Co of London Ltd [1912] AC 673" for a good case of a railway arguing with Westinghouse about quality at this date. Really good write-up of the case here http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/64695/1/British_Westinghouse_Revisited_LSERO.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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More fake history:

 

After giving the job of helping out to staff from the W&C, I suddenly realised that the LSWR did have a spare electric loco kicking about at the right date. Built for the W&C, apparently not much used, rebuilt slightly and transferred to the new Durnsford Road generating station in 1915. A trip to heathy Surrey from about 1910-1915 would probably cheer it up end.

 

Stick a bow collector on top, and off we go.

 

And, very helpfully, there is a kit for it available!

 

Have I got the skill for this???? If not, I could build it in plastic or tin around the dock shunter chassis, with pony trucks at each end behind dummy bogie frames, which seems to be much how the kit works.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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No progress on the Nelliebahn, apart from fantasising about trains, for most of last week, because I had some sort of low-grade lurgy that made me feel exceptionally tired and achy all the time ....... thank goodness that's gone, so maybe a bit of progress this week.

 

However, my attempt at cupboard de-cluttering has revealed some potentially very distracting things in a biscuit tin. These I cannot bear to throw to the mercies of eBay; they are just too cute! 
 

1EAB1E53-3FD3-4154-8774-3370FAE7AC79.jpeg.448da94d0b6b0ba7c82dadad36f9f6ee.jpeg

 

I have a great weakness for very small German locomotives, so there is a danger that this could become a Nellie, Dock Shunter und Feldbahn.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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you seem a glutton for thread drift, crossing the channel does seem extreme though.  Mind you I do find the wanderings very interesting.

 

Don

 

 

 

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The thing is, the Bosch had agents in England at this date, and they sold lots of light railway material, and even a few small locomotives (steam, electric, and petrol) here.
 

EA3C998B-AE22-4EB4-AA5A-6E92BAB3EB5A.jpeg.c182ecdd2b91e1b7040d926a7eec0d5f.jpeg


This loco was imported in 1900 from Stahlwerke Freudenstein and used at a quarry in Cornwall, and is currently under restoration a few miles from where I live.

 

16ADA22C-B871-40B5-B80D-3947735D88A9.jpeg.920601408cf764b77f80a759a5915158.jpeg

 

And here’s an O&K on reservoir work in Derbyshire c1912.

 

 

C778C30A-0480-42E3-AFA7-D388B627898D.jpeg.7b079e483ff4ec8b47d6e9c8b79effad.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The thing is, the Bosch had agents in England at this date, and they sold lots of light railway material, and even a few small locomotives (steam, electric, and petrol) here.
 

EA3C998B-AE22-4EB4-AA5A-6E92BAB3EB5A.jpeg.c182ecdd2b91e1b7040d926a7eec0d5f.jpeg


This loco was imported in 1900 from Stahlwerke Freudenstein and used at a quarry in Cornwall, and is currently under restoration a few miles from where I live.

 

16ADA22C-B871-40B5-B80D-3947735D88A9.jpeg.920601408cf764b77f80a759a5915158.jpeg

 

And here’s an O&K on reservoir work in Derbyshire c1912.

 

 

C778C30A-0480-42E3-AFA7-D388B627898D.jpeg.7b079e483ff4ec8b47d6e9c8b79effad.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Mendip Rail operate two fleets of O&K wagons to this day.

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And, London Underground uses Schoema diesel locos on some engineer’s trains (although at least some of them have been converted to battery recently).

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Buying Foreign stock is one thing. It was the words 'und Feldbahn'  tat suggested something more. Interesting about the underground using diesel locos. I assume the tubes are simply vented to the air above, so is the underground subject to the London emission zone rules.

 

Don

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Some parts of the tube, the jubilee extension notably, have sufficient forced vent to allow ‘Conditioned exhaust’ diesels, but don’t forget that 2/3 of the network is above ground anyway. I think the battery conversion of these locos is partly LEZ driven.

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3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Some parts of the tube, the jubilee extension notably, have sufficient forced vent to allow ‘Conditioned exhaust’ diesels, but don’t forget that 2/3 of the network is above ground anyway. I think the battery conversion of these locos is partly LEZ driven.

 

I did wonder wether they were mainly intended for above ground use. From what I remember of the network you tend to have to go underground to get from one overground bit to another. Why do the want Diesel/Battery locos is it for maintenance when they take the power off? I now have an image of Nellie pulling a work train including a wagon with an extending platform to allow repairs to your overhead lines.

 

Don

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Engineers’ trains. There is a fleet of bogie battery locos, plus the 4W Schoemas, and most operated our of either Ruislip or Lillie Bridge, and there quite a few more public service’ connections between lines, to allow the trains to get all over the network.

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It’s a Funny thing, I’ve got one of those little models, although it looks slightly different from the ones in your picture. It says “LEHMANN STAINZI 2” underneath. It looks as if it was some form of friction toy, and a wider gauge than OO. It came in handy in helping to determine the proportions on my Whimsy line, and hopefully perhaps will form the basis of a Tyrolean Whimsy version, as it is totally cute to look at. I’ve posed it with a Nellie 0n16.5 to get an idea, it might use a Nellie motor with new gearing and undercart, as the Nellie as it stands is too long.

CCE7FEC3-3697-429F-8ECD-2CAA3C0772C4.jpeg.d41525f2b00003980b92617758588985.jpeg

 

The O & K tipper car reminded me of a pleasant Saturday afternoon me and a pal had, sometime around the age of ten, wandering around an abandoned brick works, we found around 200 yards of track, and managed to lug a chassis, without the top, which had been pushed off into a ditch under bushes, rerailed it, and had a happy hour trundling up and down, til some miserable **** chased us away.

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I’m feeling a bit harsher today - I think the little feldbahn engines will get sold, I really do not need them.

 

Feels as if I’m steeling myself to shoot kittens.

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No, hang on to them, g’wan, g’wan..

heres a prototype. Isn’t it so lovable?

0BF0C642-AA38-4162-B9B3-3DD1B17AEE99.jpeg.e39a0e90ab77b7e5635ce38f9db3ce7f.jpeg

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