Carstairs House Tramway

[Hando]

Hello,

I became interested in the tramway when came across the Wikipedia page, which can be found here --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carstairs_House_Tramway

The Wikipedia article gives a rough overview to the history of the line, with some information on the dates of operation and the machinery.

From more reading around, it appears that the line might have been the 2nd oldest electric railway on Great Britain, after Volk's Electric Railway in Brighton (which had a gauge of 2ft, then 2ft 8 1/2 inch) and the 4th oldest electric railway in the British Isles, as well as the second to adopt hydro-electric power (after the Giant's Causeway Tramway).

The route is shown here --> https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/294253/644369/12/100664 simply switch to the OS Counties Series 1897 1:2500 layer; and scroll northwards.

If you have anymore information about the line or it's rolling stock, please comment below. 

 

Thanks, Alex 

[Nearholmer]

'Twas indeed an interesting railway, which I've always assumed was inspired by the Giant's Causeway line. I've never been able to find out much more than is currently on Wikipedia (IIRC, a Scots member of NGRS dug-up two photos of it in service a few years back, one showing a car and the OHL, and another the power house), despite following-up pretty hard on the engineers/contractors who built it, whose main business at the time was in electrical systems for ships IIRC.

 

One possibility, and I offer it as no more, is that the line somehow originated with the International Exhibition, which took place in Glasgow in 1888, either parts of it being exhibits, or the order for it originating in a visit there. I don't think there was an electric tramway as part of the "attractions", which there was at most big exhibitions by that date, though, my first thought being that there was, and that it was uplifted to Carstairs house.

 

Its "order of precedence" depends rather on which railways, tramways, etc. you decide "count", because there were several exhibition/temporary lines in GB before even the VER, the first version of Blackpool Tramway opened in 1885, the Ryde Pier Tramway was electrified in 1886, the (rather wrong-headed) Series Electric Tramway was opened in Gravesend in 1888, and there was a telpherage system in use (Glynde), which was counted as an electric railway then, but would probably be called a monorail now.

 

If you are "into" early dynamo-electric railways, I wrote a (boringly) detailed article about their history up to the opening of the VER for The Narrow Gauge a few (seven maybe?) years ago.

 

Kevin

 

Here's a bit about Anderson & Munro from a University of Glasgow website:

 

"By 1880, they had expanded into electrical engineering and the sale of telephones and fire alarms, both of which used metal wire, which the firm had been manufacturing for blind fittings and metal gauze screens since the late 1850s. 4 Donald's son John Munro erected the first practical overhead telephone line in Glasgow, in Bothwell Street in 1877, and soon began installing domestic lines. 5 The firm began supplying temporary electric lighting to public art exhibitions from 1881, as well as to events such as the British Medical Association conference in 1888. 6 This gave 'the masses ... an opportunity of witnessing this powerful illuminating agency'. 7 In 1881, Lord Kelvin visited Munro's works to see their electric dynamos powering another scientist's new glow lamps, and the same year, they installed lighting in Kelvin's house at Glasgow University. 8 Kelvin claimed this as 'the first house on the planet in which the whole lighting was done by electricity'. 9

By the mid 1880s, the firm was a prominent electrical contractor, both to St Enoch and the Caledonian Railway Stations and Hotels (1885), and to over 50 'mansion houses, places of business ... mills, [and] factories'. 10 At the Glasgow International Exhibition of 1888 they showed portable electric lamps which allowed 'with safety, the commonly forbidden pleasure of reading in bed'. 11 In 1886, they were prosecuted for failing to comply with the requirements of the Factory Act in their employment of young boys. 12"

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Hando]

The reason I was asking about this was is that I have been devising a project for sometime in the distant, hazy future...

 

                                                                                    ~~~                         *mist uncovers*                           ~~~

 

The basis of this project is a fictional railway system on the Isles of Scilly, which has taken from a number of railways that had a gauge around 2 foot and 6 inches: including, but not limited to; the Pentewan Railway (2' 6"), the Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway (2' 6"), the Glyn Valley Tramway (2' 4 1/2"), the Alford and Sutton Tramway (2' 6"), and even the very obscure (in this country at least) Woosung Tramway (2'6"); which so happened to be the first railway in China (it was built by Ipswich engineers Ransome and Rapier, the same design of carriage on the railway would be used on the Southwold Railway at a later date; this time slightly enlarged to 3 ft gauge).

 

The Pentewan Railway was considering electrifying as early as 1886 (John Barraclough Fell was the line's engineer, he had re-gauged the line from it's original 4ft 6 inches and planned to extend the railway using his Mountain Railway System (note- this was later used on the Snaefell Mountain Railway on the Isle of Man) so as to reach the china clay pits above St. Austell, which were up a very steep descent), so I thought why not that in an alternate universe, this would happen (albeit without the Fell System) with the same rolling stock (locos etc.) but in a different place entirely!

 

By the way Nearholmer- do you have the photos yourself or do I need to do some rummaging in old NGRS articles?

Thanks, Alex

Edited January 3, 2020 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[Nearholmer]

Rummaging, I’m afraid. My library of TNG is a bit buried, but I’d guess that both my article, and the carstairs photos which emerged a bit later, are somewhere around edition 200 onwards.

 

Having been to the Scillies, one issue I foresee for a hydro electric railway is the lack of the hydro part, unless you create tide-pools, and only run trains on the falling tide. Wind turbines might work, or possibly wave power.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Hando]

I came up with the concept of a reservoir on St. Mary's, in the Holy Vale valley.

Meanwhile, the Great Pool on Tresco would also power the electric railway there.

For context I've been creating a map on Google MyMaps the link is below: 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ovhowi7ZQHisMxa_Mel1tPweJPVTbVlD&usp=sharing

 

I've also been writing a fictional history of the system as well, but that is still currently under development, like the map.

 

Thanks for looking for the Articles anyway, Nearholmer - even if it hasn't yielded any results quite yet.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[tractionman]

The Industrial Railway Society volume by Colin Mountford on The Private Railways of County Durham has a very interesting chapter on a narrow gauge overhead electric line of 2' 2" gauge, built in 1907-8, called the Whittonstall Railway.

 

Mountford states this was "the only electric narrow gauge line ever built in the county" (page 91) and the chapter has some wonderful images of the construction of the railway, its 500v DC overhead apparatus and rolling stock, including locos. An amazing system!

 

Worth buying the book for this alone, but the whole volume is a superb piece of research: https://irsshop.co.uk/Durham

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by tractionman
typo--'county' not 'country'

[Nearholmer]

Interesting.

 

The claim of uniqueness, like the claims of precedence, depends a lot on what “counts”, unless you meant “county”, rather than “country”.

 

K

[tractionman]

9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Interesting.

 

The claim of uniqueness, like the claims of precedence, depends a lot on what “counts”, unless you meant “county”, rather than “country”.

 

K

 

oops, yes sorry, 'county' not 'country'!

 

I'll edit the post to correct.

 

 

[tom q vaxy]

the photo of the powerhouse (from first post link) is absolutely stunning!

[caradoc]

There is a short feature on the Carstairs House Tramway in 'The Age of the Electric Train' (J.C.Gillham, Ian Allan 1988). This states that there were three electric cars, and that the railway became disused in 1905 when the owner was, sadly, electrocuted by it; Although Wikipedia does not mention that and says that he died in 1911 ! There is also a small map of the line.

[Nearholmer]

Getting a very nasty shock might have been enough to disable him, or at very least put him off playing with electric trains.

 

The word ‘electrocuted’ is often used incorrectly.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Hando]

Very interesting!

I hope to read more...

[Hando]

I've found some photos on AditNow of the locos that ran on the Whittonstall Electric Railway:

They were built by Hanomag/Siemens. In the upper photo is Loco No.3, built in 1910.

Note the unusual catenary system.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[Nearholmer]

Truly superb!

 

The OHL, what can be seen of it, looks very ordinary for low-speed 500/600V practice, with very typical continental masts/poles.

 

It isn’t strictly ‘catenary’, because a catenary wire is one forming a catenary curve, from which the contact wire is suspended by droppers. Unnecessary in low-speed applications like tramways, where only a contact wire is needed.
 

Here’s a nice model one:

 

 

[Hando]

It would make an interesting model wouldn't it?

Oddly I can see the resemblance between the Catenary Pole photo you  posted and the Pole in the background of the photo of the other loco.

Maybe someone who wanted to model the Whittonstall line could simply adjust the Standard LGB Catenary Mast and scratchbuild a new finial to put on top. The stabilising arch could simply be replaced for another scratchbuilt one that connects lower on the pole.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[Dunalastair]

On 16/01/2020 at 16:01, Hando said:

It would make an interesting model wouldn't it?

 

A while since I last posted here, but since the question was asked ...

 

This is a 3D printed static model, one of several (well, a dozen or so) of NG overhead electric prototypes which I have been reporting on NGRM.

 

Carstairs is now about third in my queue, behind the current project (Tintwhistle Waterworks Railway) and the Edinburgh Forestry Exhibition train. There was very little in the Gillham, though a fine book otherwise, so I have ordered the Lanarkshire Tramways book which reportedly has a section on Carstairs. What I'd love to see is whether freight was handled in electric days - later sawmill traffic was apparently horsedrawn.