Chippenham - The Work Bench

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Same as the tare that also seems to differ between wagons even of the dame diagram.

 

[Mikkel]

They look really good Matt. The detail differences are impressive, a good example that no two wagons are ever alike. 

 

Can I ask what the difference is between these transfers and the HMRS/Fox ones?

[Compound2632]

13 hours ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Not sure really. I think it really comes down to what wagon at what time of life. I have some picture of a mixed W5 and W1 rake which appears to have only one W5 with a tie bar but it is very fuzzy. I have another picture of 13865 with lime wash and seemingly no vac but has a tie bar. 

Rule 1, possibly on that detail unless specific pictures modeled. I must admit I have gone for full tie bars an all.

 

Never model an example for which photos of either side at any period exist.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

10 hours ago, Mikkel said:

They look really good Matt. The detail differences are impressive, a good example that no two wagons are ever alike. 

 

Can I ask what the difference is between these transfers and the HMRS/Fox ones?

 

Thanks Mikkel. They need very little time in water before being released from the backing paper, 3ish seconds. Same whether the water cold, luke warm or warm. The actual transfer seems real strong as well. I have never had a crack or break but instantly when I had to use the not common user ones they broke apart, unfortunately I had not asked for this to be produced as I have overlooked this in my original research. The most important thing though is the actual writing is much much finer and sharper, no blurring or fat, squat lettering especially on the tons and tare. You could say the white is a little transparent at times but I think that may be me pushing too hard on the transfer with Microsol trying to get into the plank cracks to deep.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

On 15/06/2021 at 21:00, MrWolf said:

Am I right in thinking that the tiebar was only on the vacuum fitted version? 

I keep seeing etched tiebars but only ever for 9' and 10' WB wagons.

 

I have found a3 pictures (although of models rather than real thing) one with tie bars but no vac, another with vac and no tie bars and the final one without either. Mine field. 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Still none the wiser on the point @MrWolf has mentioned regarding the tie bars. I do recall somewhere that those wagons without vac brakes did not have tie bars but do not know if this relates to these/all wagon types or just open planked.

 

Progress on the older lime wash livery wagons. I have tried to get the during use look with some light weathering on top of the lime wash and rust on the irons. The next wagons will all be the later dated ones once the lime washing practice had ceased. Not sure if this is too far on the weather and more of the white needs to be brought back through?  Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, as always.

 

        

 

[MrWolf]

I have dug out one of the early versions of the Cooper Craft W1/W5 cattle wagon kits with the typewritten instructions.

In the notes beneath the "assembly instructions" it states:

 

"The above describes the W5 vacuum braked wagon, to build the W1, leave off the vacuum brake hoses from the ends and the cylinder and crank from the weight box lid also cut away the tie bars between the axleguards."

 

 

[Mikkel]

I like the weathering Matt. It makes good sense to me that the lime wash would not have been as white as it appears in black & white photos.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I have dug out one of the early versions of the Cooper Craft W1/W5 cattle wagon kits with the typewritten instructions.

In the notes beneath the "assembly instructions" it states:

 

"The above describes the W5 vacuum braked wagon, to build the W1, leave off the vacuum brake hoses from the ends and the cylinder and crank from the weight box lid also cut away the tie bars between the axleguards."

 

 

 

Thank you appreciate it. I do not have the instructions for any of the wagons I built, only a single header card. I guess that is the real problem when you get very familiar with one or two particular kits.

Thanks again I have a kit plucking to do 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

17 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I like the weathering Matt. It makes good sense to me that the lime wash would not have been as white as it appears in black & white photos.

 

Thanks Mikkel. That is what I was after, cows in transit. Just need to get hold of some animals now for the interiors.

[Compound2632]

Wagons without vacuum brakes did not need tiebars as the hand brake could not be applied with sufficient force to risk bending the axleguards, unlike the vacuum brake (especially at implemented by the Great Western). That's not to say that unfitted wagons might not be fitted with tiebars anyway. This doesn't apply to wagons fitted with the vacuum brake acting via proper balanced clasp brakes, carriage-style. 

[57xx]

On 17/06/2021 at 06:41, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

 

I have found a3 pictures (although of models rather than real thing) one with tie bars but no vac, another with vac and no tie bars and the final one without either. Mine field. 

 

Don't use another model as a reference, you don't know what reference, if any, they used. Tie bars were used to stop the axles spreading on vac fitted wagons, hand braked ones did not have the required braking force to spread the axles so did not need the tie bars.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

11 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I like the weathering Matt. It makes good sense to me that the lime wash would not have been as white as it appears in black & white photos.

 

I think you are right. I have put a 'slate' filter to the picture in an attempt for black and white (not very good with photoshop stuff) and all the rust and dirt disappear to leave quite white white.

 

[Mikkel]

Thanks for testing that Matt. I suppose the next question is whether the wash built up over time, or if it could be washed off completely without repainting... 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Thanks for testing that Matt. I suppose the next question is whether the wash built up over time, or if it could be washed off completely without repainting... 

 

Very true as many in later pictures shows seemingly no trace of wash after the discontinuance of the practice.  

[Mikkel]

Yes, I was wondering about that. You'd think it was still apparent on cattle wagons for some time after the railways stopped using it, especially if going by a 7-year average repainting cycle.

[MrWolf]

I doubt that the railway companies would have used a type of limewash that couldn't be hosed and scrubbed off.  If we are to believe that it was regularly and liberally reapplied and the wagons were regularly hosed out, then the type of limewash used would not be permanent. 

Permanent (ish) limewash used linseed oil or tallow to make it waterproof and more permanent, which may well have been counter productive as far as the railway was concerned.

Straight limewash was water based and wouldn't adhere very well to the external gloss paintwork of the wagon. If they were scrubbed down or even steam cleaned when the practice of limewashing ended, the vast majority of it would be removed.

I'm not entirely sure what would have been used to disinfect the wagons latterly, though farmers were very fond of Jeyes Fluid (Chlorocresol).

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by MrWolf
Clarity

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Was not 100% happy with the weathering on the cattle wagons, so left them standing for a few days to 'get used' to the appearance but nothing in my mind changed. Whilst removing the tie bars on the W1 wagons I decided to wash over the white and weathered areas with a 40:60 ish white/water solution. This has had a much better affect on the weathered areas, dumbing down the rust and dirt whilst slightly brightening the lime wash effect. I do not think a picture will show much change but to the eye there is enough to convince me it is better than what I had. I'm happy with the end result, so loading up the wagons with stock. 

Who knew finding a nice bulk amount of standing cattle figures would be so difficult or potentially expensive!

[Bluemonkey presents....]

An interesting question was posed to me by my good lady (as she is the livestock bible I use);

 

"What about transportation of sheep?"

 

Ahh dunno is my uneducated answer. 

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

"What about transportation of sheep?"

 

Cattle wagons, except in a few cases such as the Highland Railway that had sufficient sheep traffic to warrant special double-decker wagons. There was some livestock that couldn't be transported in cattle wagons because the draught through the slats would be bad for them - piglets, I think, among others, maybe. But I can't recall where I saw that or how such sensitive creatures were to be conveyed. 

[Graham T]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 - piglets, I think, among others, maybe. But I can't recall where I saw that or how such sensitive creatures were to be conveyed. 

 

Grilled, and then conveyed between two slices of bread

[Compound2632]

Just now, Graham T said:

 

Grilled, and then conveyed between two slices of bread

 

Harsh, but inevitable.

[MrWolf]

I was going to suggest that they were possibly carried in well ventilated vans, plenty of straw on the floor and a good hosing out afterwards.

 

But the bacon sandwich idea sounds better.

 

I stand by that statement, it's not my fault that piglets are made of breakfast.

 

 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

I am now educated thanks to @Mikkel and he infinite knowledge and library. 

Sheep travel in cattle wagons - Mex not cattle wagon, hence.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Bluemonkey presents....
Ref

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Here we are with protected with herd mentality.

 

  Devon Reds circ 20/30s.  Soon to be loaded using the rule of 4 bubble. I appreciate the straw can not really be seen

 

once the cattle are in and the roof on but I know its there. I have also tipped my cap to that fact with the odd piece sticking out of the vents. This was inspired by Maurice Pearce's work showcased at gwr.org.uk and again my thanks to Mikkel for pointing me in that direction, thank you Sir. Will be more obvious on the open wagon