Chippenham - The Work Bench

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Additionally had to cut about some other transfers to get one of the outstanding cattle wagons ready for like weathering. This is 68409 and from two source pictures Russel wagons appendix and Atkins, Beard and Tourret shown in transitional livery from early plates to painted livery. Shown with 24" lettering, number still on solebar and with G.W.R, numbering, 'large' and ton/tare as plates on the ends. Hope this picture make more sense than my description;

 

  

 

Something a little different.

[MrWolf]

I've been using the same coupling on all of my stock as I have found that the springs on other makes to be too strong to function properly.

I've built a couple of Colin Ashby kits, they were pretty ancient, but so nicely detailed and they fall together like an Airfix aeroplane.

[Mikkel]

11 hours ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Something a little different.

 

Indeed. I've always thought that those plates added a lot of character to the prototype, they clearly do on your models too.

 

I spy the red variants in the background too, illustrating the diversity of appearances and styles. You're taking GWR cattle wagons to the next level, we 'll have to call you The Cattle Whisperer.

 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

47 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Indeed. I've always thought that those plates added a lot of character to the prototype, they clearly do on your models too.

 

I spy the red variants in the background too, illustrating the diversity of appearances and styles. You're taking GWR cattle wagons to the next level, we 'll have to call you The Cattle Whisperer.

 

 

Thank you and totally agree I was hopeful that it could be pulled off without the need for brass plates, some serious magnifying glass and one handed cutting involved but very happy with the resulting wagon.

 

Shhhh the reds are a secret, lol. Both are fictitious unfortunately; one but based on a picture of Milford Haven and the other will completely made up but I am heavily dependent on the transfers arriving to be able to finish that project as with the final W1 wagon.

 

Have a few brass W8/10/12 to have a go at some time in the future but those will be for another time I think.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I've been using the same coupling on all of my stock as I have found that the springs on other makes to be too strong to function properly.

I've built a couple of Colin Ashby kits, they were pretty ancient, but so nicely detailed and they fall together like an Airfix aeroplane.

 

This is very true and I remembered our discussion a while ago when attempting that drilling. Weird Slaters have a couple of blanks in every pack. Either way they are decent couplings requiring little enlarging of the hole in the buffer beam which also is a major plus. I had thought of using Smiths for the 20T wagon due to size but the allowance required to fit the hook meant cutting into the sub structure behind the beam or risk splitting the bottom of the buffer beam.

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Weird Slaters have a couple of blanks in every pack.

 

There's always a wagon where the tail won't fit - my most usual culprit being MJT fold-up axleguards, unless I remember to hack a notch out. In which case I fold the tail over and glue it to the rear of the headstock - seems to work. Sometimes they're short of an element - I accepted a batch without links recently, as I've plenty of spares.

 

The material used for the links has varied down the years - more recent ones don't blacken quite as satisfactorily, or so it seems. But I recently found a couple of packets I bought in the early 90s, so will put my recollection to the test.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Not only cattle were transported in the Mex wagons This represents an example of one used for horses. The tarps were used to blank out the open sides of the wagons as the horses were easily spooked.

 

I would like to think this makes a decent representation. It currently sits nicely over the roof and would genuinely stay put without glue or ties. I will give it a few days to make sure I am completely happy with it and then rope ties will be added. Any suggestions for the ropes? I thought fine thread painted brown/grey? No chains were involved or at least the picture I have used as a reference for the wagon and tarp.

     

 

 

Oh and mat varnish to lose the shine from the ink washes,

 

 

[Mikkel]

Ah yes, another variant! I used black thread, or painted as you say.

 

Strictly speaking I believe it should be a proper GWR tarp, with full insignia etc for the period - but maybe you've seen another example? 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Hi @Mikkel I certainly do, the actual wagon and the tarp. I will post a picture and reference asap.

 

Thank you for the suggestion of black thread. I need to take a trip to Farthing to see how it is done Sir. I am wary of the fine 'hairs' on the thread I have though. Anyway I think a first class ticket to farthing is called for.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Bluemonkey presents....

[MrWolf]

It looks like you may have saved an old model W1 from the bin with this information. I have one with damaged window bars that whoever made it didn't paint the inside, despite making a good job of the rest.

PS, thanks for your input on @Graham Ts Chuffnell Regis thread re whitewashing.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

56 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Hi @Mikkel I certainly do, the actual wagon and the tarp. I will post a picture and reference asap.

 

Thank you for the suggestion of black thread. I need to take a trip to Farthing to see how it is done Sir. I am wary of the fine 'hairs' on the thread I have though. Anyway I think a first class ticket to farthing is called for.

 

On second viewing I spy numbers that look rather official. Another lesson here; Do not trust what you think you remember, check, check and check again. Apologies for misleading. I'll have to use the tarp elsewhere. It is difficult to see if there are any further markings on the tarp in the picture other than the numbers at the front, either way though need to rethink.

 

 

Reference source; GWR Goods Train Working From Control Offices to Exceptional Loads Vol 2 Tony Atkins.

 

 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

I am tempted though have a little go with the paint brushes or maybe dig a couple of transfer off cuts, hmmmm

[Compound2632]

Notwithstanding the appearance in that photo, the wagon sheet is black (or at least an off-black very dark grey), having been tarred.

 

The 6/28 indicates either that that sheet was issued to traffic in June 1928 or else that's the date it's due back at the sheet stores for refurbishment - I forget which; one date was in red (which doesn't show up in photos), the other in white. The usual time between the two dates seems to have been around 15 months.

 

I use a dark grey sewing thread for the sheet ties. In lieu of brass eyelets, I glue them in place with a dab of cyano on the end of the thread. One in each corner and three equispaced along each side. There are also three eyelets on triangular flaps sewn into the first seam on each side - sheets were made of five lengths of canvas, so there are four longitudinal seams. I think in that photo the tie attached to the middle eyelet on the long side has been looped up through the eyelet in the seam, so as to lift the sheet up over the doors. Perhaps that was let down when the train was in motion - it's just been lifted up so as to check on the animals.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Compound2632

[Bluemonkey presents....]

@Compound2632 Very much appreciate you insight, thank you. I have a lot more to research before proceeding. 

[Compound2632]

NB I was adding to my post as you replied.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Another lesson here; Do not trust what you think you remember

 

What you remember may be accurate for the period you remember. There was a change in the materials used for wagon sheets in the BR period - 60s perhaps - with fewer markings and more tan than black, I think.

[Mikkel]

13 hours ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

 

On second viewing I spy numbers that look rather official. Another lesson here; Do not trust what you think you remember, check, check and check again. Apologies for misleading. I'll have to use the tarp elsewhere. It is difficult to see if there are any further markings on the tarp in the picture other than the numbers at the front, either way though need to rethink.

 

 

Reference source; GWR Goods Train Working From Control Offices to Exceptional Loads Vol 2 Tony Atkins.

 

 

 

That photo inspired the one below, from back in 2012. It has has since been dismantled after Nick pointed out that I had used the later style of sheet - and with a 1930s date too -  for a 1907 scene . The thread looks a bit thick too.

 

 

Matt, the folds in your sheet look good and far better than mine, it would be a shame to lose it. Could you paint your existing sheet black, and ignore the lettering?

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Mikkel

[kitpw]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

sheets were made of five lengths of canvas, so there are four longitudinal seams

Was that standard across companies or did different companies have different configurations (Im about to "put some together" for GWR stock, which is to say I haven't worked out how to do it yet)?

 

Kit PW

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, kitpw said:

Was that standard across companies or did different companies have different configurations (Im about to "put some together" for GWR stock, which is to say I haven't worked out how to do it yet)?

 

Kit PW

 

As far as I'm aware that was standard. Most of what I know about sheets comes from an article by Bob Essery in Midland Record No. 3, the usually reasonably reliable igg site  and study of period photos, such as these (part of a larger photo of Vastern Road goods yard, Reading, c. 1905):

 

 

 

[AlfaZagato]

Probably based on a standard width of fabric available from textile mills.  Modern standards for fabric are a yard across, if I remember correctly.   If it was the same standard back then, that'd give 5 yards, or 15 feet, of tarp. 

 

TBH, I've honestly forgotten the normal wheelbase, or body length for a RCH open.   I think 15 feet is about right looking at the pics being posted.

[kitpw]

On 12/10/2021 at 17:58, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Any suggestions for the ropes?

I've been trying Softflex 'very fine' nylon coated ss stranded wire (used for stringing beads, Cookson Gold have it in stock - https://www.cooksongold.com ).  The 'very fine' gauge is 0.25mm which is about right for 7mm/ft:  modern tarpaulin lines (polyprop') are available in 6, 8, 10 and 12mm thickness.  I would guess that earlier ropes - Edwardian or Victorian - were a heavier gauge than contemporary stuff so maybe 0.25mm would work for sheet lines on wagons in the early 1900s in 4mm/ft  (In 7mm/ft, 0.25 is about 1/2"). Softflex is soft enough to be knotted but stiff enough to look as if it's been pulled tight to secure a wagon sheet which is what I'm after.  The (not very good) photo below shows the Softflex draped over a 7mm wagon side to give a sense of scale.  Next step is to see if it can be chemically blackened (the nylon coating may defeat that) and so this is a suggestion based on work-in-progress, not yet work satisfactorily completed!

[Mikkel]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

sheets were made of five lengths of canvas, so there are four longitudinal seams

 

9 hours ago, kitpw said:

Was that standard across companies or did different companies have different configurations (Im about to "put some together" for GWR stock, which is to say I haven't worked out how to do it yet)?

 

Here's a crop from a photo from a GWR sheet shop (no date, looks 1930s to me).  Looks like five lengths.

 

Tony Atkins GWR Goods Services Vol 2 says they were 21ft x 14ft 4 ins.

 

   

[Bluemonkey presents....]

12 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

That photo inspired the one below, from back in 2012. It has has since been dismantled after Nick pointed out that I had used the later style of sheet - and with a 1930s date too -  for a 1907 scene . The thread looks a bit thick too.

 

 

Matt, the folds in your sheet look good and far better than mine, it would be a shame to lose it. Could you paint your existing sheet black, and ignore the lettering?

 

 

That wagon looks great but appreciate the time period, I was totally unaware of the technicalities of tarps until @Compound2632 pointed them out (of which I thank him greatly), another Great Western minefield, lol.

 

Thank you regarding the other tarp. I can use it elsewhere for those military items or a load machine load type thing I guess. The secret behind the folds and creases is simply chocolate and ink.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Big thank you for everyone's thoughts and comments. Certainly have a lot more to think about than just topping out the wagon. Will do some more research regarding the details.

 

I have a plan for a new tarp. Painting wise will document a brief overview here shortly as these are relatively quick to do and material is easy to come by especially with the coming seasonal holidays. I am think maybe I can use some spare wagon transfers for the numbering etc, Loads of Microsol maybe to really soften the transfers? Worth a try aleast.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

 

Here's a crop from a photo from a GWR sheet shop (no date, looks 1930s to me).  Looks like five lengths.

 

Tony Atkins GWR Goods Services Vol 2 says they were 21ft x 14ft 4 ins.

 

   

 

You can see the flaps with eyelets sewn into the first seam there.

 

10 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Probably based on a standard width of fabric available from textile mills.  Modern standards for fabric are a yard across, if I remember correctly.   If it was the same standard back then, that'd give 5 yards, or 15 feet, of tarp. 

 

That would make sense, with 8" taken up by the seams - 2" overlap at each. Or do we see some sort of but seam?