Chippenham - The Work Bench

[MrWolf]

Very nice job indeed, I have just received enough couplings in the post to get stuck in with my W1 rake.

 

I think that I can answer the tie bar question though. 

I'm normally so pleased at having cut the solebar mouldings free of the sprues without snapping anything off that I tend to forget that the tiebar needed to come off anyway.

[AlfaZagato]

Merry Christmas, y'all.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Here we go then, did quite get all of the wagons finished off, mainly due to be lazy but the weather for spraying paint was a little wet as well.

 

Here's the 2 planker in GWR livery as described by the instructions and a little red number for the New Year. Not as bright as shown and the odd mark is from having to swap around the number and tons making the powders weird out. It is not for the purists but the number is from a wagon built 1889 hence the livery minus the G and W. I used a little guessucation to merge two pictured liveries, one

 

from 1893 and that of the actual wagon 37979 in 1920s. I could have just used the number 57604 but this meant that I had to chop up loads of individual numbers from a different transfer source when I had already the full number from the same source as tons and tare. Like I said I have been lazy. Both waiting couplings as with the majority of my recent builds.

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

Happy New Year.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Tried with just natural lighting but still smacks you in the face compared to the naked eye.

 

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Tried with just natural lighting but still smacks you in the face compared to the naked eye.

 

That red is very hard to photograph successfully. For GWR red I've used neat Halfords red primer, which is in my opinion a good match for red lead which, again in my opinionated opinion, was the pigment actually used. But I have to object that you've been insufficiently masochistical - the italic wording on the left should be To Carry 9 Tons and the tare weight should go all the way to quarters:

 

 

You'll see that I ended up with: ToCrry8Ton! (8 tons was the capacity before oil axleboxes were fitted.)

[Bluemonkey presents....]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That red is very hard to photograph successfully. For GWR red I've used neat Halfords red primer, which is in my opinion a good match for red lead which, again in my opinionated opinion, was the pigment actually used. But I have to object that you've been insufficiently masochistical - the italic wording on the left should be To Carry 9 Tons and the tare weight should go all the way to quarters:

 

 

You'll see that I ended up with: ToCrry8Ton! (8 tons was the capacity before oil axleboxes were fitted.)

 

Very nicely done. I couldn't fit 'to carry' completely so just decided on a little for the tons and tare using the Ratio transfers.

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Very nicely done. I couldn't fit 'to carry' completely so just decided on a little for the tons and tare using the Ratio transfers.

 

Yours is a transitional livery style...

 

I think the signwriters at time must have been cursing every time a batch of iron minks was in for lettering up!

Edited December 31, 2021 by Compound2632

[Bluemonkey presents....]

26 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But I have to object that you've been insufficiently masochistical - the italic wording on the left should be To Carry 9 Tons 

 

I had my time with the Rectank just got another 11 to do! Finding the transfers is a devil in it's self.

 

 

Numbers, tons and tare not so much 'Rectank'

Edited December 31, 2021 by Bluemonkey presents....

[Bluemonkey presents....]

OK, having thought that was it for the year I find myself in the shite! No I mean quite literally, I have a sh!t project. I am a sh!t modeller. Seriously it's shite for now.

Having whacked a load of weathering paste stuff on another Mex I accidently bought I started to think ah sh!t the manure wagon Dia R. I need a load as (oddly) the brass interior sides are not etch detailed. I did not intend to do anything else this year but hey when the feeling takes you go with it.

 

The original tarp, in the recent tarp experiment, can and will be used here. As previously mentioned it is likely the load would have been covered for transport and you certainly would not want to be using tarps on this sort of load that would then be in general service later. So I am using the brownish looking original one that can be seen as an old right off.

 

 

The idea is to have a removable load including the tarp that acts as one piece. Whilst I could easily just cover the entire wagon with a double tarp and be done with it where's the fun in that, besides that would cut short all the puns available for a little old years night cheer. The planned result is to end with a load that is partial covered by a general, nondescript old used tarp exposing an area that still requires 'loading'. This will be suitable to leave in a siding or hopefully slightly plausible as a movement load, no pun intended but if it works cracking.

 

Herewith the experiment commences; (especially for @Mikkel as I believe these are a favorite)

 

The load is horse manure from the station stables, my planned layout has a good sized stables attached so one wagon is certainly justified.

As described above the load is to be partially covered.

 

As with the Mex wagons 'used' straw is represented with fibres. These are hanging basket fibres. I got hold a sheet of and cutting into strips then into shorter pieces that can then be broken into small clumps and individual strands.

 

 

 

Next we need the poo so using some DAS air drying clay (I have had this opened and stored for about 6 years just waiting for a sh!t project like this)

 

  The dollops are then thrown in a mixture of black and brown washes heavily diluted (probaly 200%) with water.

 

These will be left over night to see what happens. The hope is that the balls will 'go off' with an element of colour. If not then they will be left out to dry and colour using the diluted wash. next the main body of the exposed load needs to be created. Again using the DAS and general mound is made that sits nicely in the final destination as well reaching under the tarp. A support for the hollow part will be constructed from plasticard should this cr@p effort work. 

 

  This now to be left overnight to harden off. We will see what the results are in the new year. 

 

Is it the bin or are we continuing in the new year, who knows, who cares, it will be what it will be........................................................a pile of sh!te at the end of the day, lol.

 

Happy New Year to You All. Thank you for spending your time reading my drivel, hopefully it has brought the occasional smile and may be even some modelling assistance. 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Well the experiment with the balls of clay in the ink turned out cr@p. Didn't work, not sure why I thought it would putting clay in a solution means just one thing, clay slip! This gooey mess of rubbish was spread across the top of the larger clay pile to give a rougher surface, which works nicely. The clay has taken an age to dry and although not completely dry I marched on. A thick coat of Hull Red and generous dribbles of runny glue I threw the chopped up pieces of hanging basket liner all over it. Currently drying but thought I would give an idea of what it happening. Must be convincing in the flesh as when I was uploading the picture the Higher Authority wondered by and said "What is that....looks like a pie of sh!te" 

 

  We'll see tomorrow. I am planning for further applications of hay/straw with more paint and ink washes.

[MrWolf]

When it's completed, don't get offended by anyone saying that it looks like a pile of s***.

 

It's actually a compliment! 

 

 

[Mikkel]

Oooh, delightful. Experiments in dung. I like the half tarped idea. It must be a big stable at Chippenham 

 

Agree about the difficulties in photographing red vans. It also depends on the camera/phone, like films of old they seem to highlight different shades.

 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

On 06/01/2022 at 07:35, Mikkel said:

Oooh, delightful. Experiments in dung. I like the half tarped idea. It must be a big stable at Chippenham 

 

I think maybe only 3-5 stables/horses for the station but Wiltshire Bacon factory and Westinghouse was opposite and had links to the mainline so I am running along those lines.

 

Here's the final offending object. I think it's sh!te and even my good lady said it looked like cr@p to her. Now there's a compliment if ever I had one  

 

 

This is a shaped blob of DAS which took a couple of days to fully dry out. Paint in hull brown. A decent layer of hanging basket liner, chopped into various size pieces and pulled apart into strands. This was then dabbed with loaded brushes of Agrax Earthshade wash and some strands picked out with Sinai Grey. Then a final thin layer of liner glued on top to help lighten the pile as the brown took over and looked to poohy and not enough straw.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Here's all the pieces to the puzzle. the white is a load of plasticard scraps that I have glued into a former for under the tarp to stop this from been pushed in once in service. I have added the same wash to the wagon floor and sides but did not want to go overboard as horse dung is drier than the cattle equivalent and unless it has recently rained the load should be relatively dry, with the obvious exception of the other end product as well but the straw should deal with most of this. The finished kit itself has slit holes along the base of the sides. These I am presuming are designed and the prototype would have had these to act as drains to avoid pooling. I used the wash to the same effect, loading the sides and corners and letting it drain through the slits. Picture 2 tries to show this but not so well, again I have not gone over board here as I do not think there is likely to be a huge amount of liquid spill, especially as sheeted.

 

  

 

This is the wagon as it is planned to be when everything is fixed in place. I will add ropes to the tarp as I did with the previous cattle/horse wagon but paint the thread first  

 

  

 

The WW1 converted open wagon for horse transport is all but finished just need to add metal links around the top of the wagon, under the extension planking, tie in the horses and finish with the military lettering on the lower corner.

 

 

Now to finish the Damo B and Mink C as they are out of the spray box.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Bluemonkey presents....
Not sure the internal irons and rail irons should be black for the open horse wagon though.

[Mikkel]

I hope you'll consider the neighbours when parking it 

 

The Open has  come out well, I like the weathering and look of the interior.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Slow progress but progress nonetheless. Very pleased with the way the HMRS transfers have shaped around the stations of the Mink C but the numbers I feel are a little large and blobby.

 

  

 

The transfers for the manure wagon are chopped up ratio Iron Mink sheets. As there are no decent pictures or much in formation in general available on the small amount of wagons built for this diagram I have presumed freight livery in colour and run with text positions are per open fish wagons. Dung load and tarp former are to be fixed once the wagon has received a spray of varnish. The tarp will receive a separate spray of varnish to try and preserve the folds. Ropes will be the final addition.

 

  

 

  

 

All my parts have arrived for the breakdown train project so this will be next. A varied effort will be required from kit building whitemetal steam crane and brass match truck to scratch building a bogied riding coach/van. I have also a pair of brass mess and tool vans that have been super heavily painted and glued to salvage and resurrect. Much fun for 2022.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

The last two of the quad are finished (they ahve wheels just not in place) except couplings as usual. It's a case of little and large and quite a difference as well!

 

  

 

 

I used the original transfers for the Damo as supplied. They first looked hugely over scaled but now they have settle and seem a better fit. Started on a couple of single plankers for a local stone quarry whilst I wait for a couple of finishing items before I get started on the breakdown train.

 

  Just got to dry brush those wagon beds and start on the sides.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Just asking a little help please.

 

I have it in my mind that private owner open wagons consisted of open/split spoked wheels roughly in the early 1900s to be replaced during the 1920 with solid spoked wheels. Of course this took a long time as would have only been completed during maintenance.

The basis of the question lies with me requiring a a number of wheels for private owner wagons and the wish to get it right. As you will see through the thread I model a wide range of dated wagons but layout will be set within the 20s. So if there would have been a cross over during this period I presume private owner wagons would still have the majority, if not all, as split whilst those I have already model for the Great Western would be still ok to keep the solid spokes already applied.

 

In short my line of thinking is; keep the solid spokes as already applied, keep the additional solid spokes for the other GWR wagons to build and use split spoke for the new private owners.

Does this make sense or an I over thinking it and I should wind my neck in and just stick with solids?

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated as I need to get my order in soon. Cheers.

[Compound2632]

45 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

I have it in my mind that private owner open wagons consisted of open/split spoked wheels roughly in the early 1900s to be replaced during the 1920 with solid spoked wheels.

 

Nothing so rigid or well defined, I think. If we start by looking at railway company wagons, we see that the LNWR was using split-spoke wheels for newly built wagons right up to the grouping and most photos of ex-LNWR wagons in the 1930s show that they still had them. The Midland, on the other hand, was using solid spoked wheels from at least the early 1880s. Turning to PO wagons, the RCH 1887 specification drawings show solid-spoke wheels but photographic evidence shows that the majority of wagons built to that specification had split-spoke wheels. Solid spokes were by no means universally adopted even for wagons built to the 1923 specification - which were always in a minority. There are plenty of photographs of PO wagons built before the Great War running with split spoke wheels in the 1930s and beyond.

 

I don't think wagons changed their wheels, much, or if they did they were very likely to be given wheels of the same type, since those would be what were on hand. There was certainly no programme of replacing split spoke with solid spoke wheels. So which type a particular wagon has has more to do with its date of building and its builder than the date at which you are modelling it.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

I then pose the question;  Is it reasonable for said po wagons to have originally been fitted with open spoked during the early 1900s and still be wearing them during my period of my layout setting of the 1920s? My understanding is yes but just checking as to purchase enough axles for 60+ wagons would be somewhat disappointing to make for open then realise the majority should be solid. It would appear that the majority, if not all, the wagon builder is, Gloucester C & W Co.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

I then pose the question;  Is it reasonable for said po wagons to have originally been fitted with open spoked during the early 1900s and still be wearing them during my period of my layout setting of the 1920s? My understanding is yes but just checking as to purchase enough axles for 60+ wagons would be somewhat disappointing to make for open then realise the majority should be solid. It would appear that the majority, if not all, the wagon builder is, Gloucester C & W Co.

 

I would assume open spokes for any PO wagon in the 1920s unless you have proof positive of solid spokes for a particular example. 

 

I'm not sure I understand your remark about Gloucester RC&W Co.? My perusal of Montague together with PO books that feature many Gloucester wagons is that they were users of split spoke wheels right up to your period - and don't forget that the majority of PO wagons then running would have been built before the Great War. It is the case, though, that the books, and hence available wagons and transfers, are skewed towards Gloucester wagons because that company's photographic archive survives whereas the archives of many of the large wagon building firms do not, or not so completely, or not so accessibly.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Compound2632

[Bluemonkey presents....]

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I would assume open spokes for any PO wagon in the 1920s unless you have proof positive of solid spokes for a particular example. 

 

I'm not sure I understand your remark about Gloucester RC&W Co.?

 

Thank you @Compound2632 very much appreciate your time and help. This is what I was thinking as well just hoped for confirmation of someone more knowledgeable than me. 

 

My comment was referring to the kits that I am to build, most if not all seem to be of Gloucester R C&W Co basis.

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

My comment was referring to the kits that I am to build, most if not all seem to be of Gloucester R C&W Co basis.

 

Unsurprising, for the reason stated. But I think a bias towards Gloucester products might be justified for a Wiltshire setting, at least for locally-domiciled wagons. I dare say you have Richard Kelham's Private Owner Wagons of Wiltshire. I don't myself, as it's straying rather out of my area, though I have spotted a few wagons of Wiltshire coal merchants in photographs of mineral trains in the Birmingham area. Which raises another question: who were the customers for coal in Chippenham at your period, where did they get their coal, and hence what colliery wagons would you expect to see? Perhaps @wagonman can comment...

[Bluemonkey presents....]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Unsurprising, for the reason stated. But I think a bias towards Gloucester products might be justified for a Wiltshire setting, at least for locally-domiciled wagons. I dare say you have Richard Kelham's Private Owner Wagons of Wiltshire. I don't myself, as it's straying rather out of my area, though I have spotted a few wagons of Wiltshire coal merchants in photographs of mineral trains in the Birmingham area. Which raises another question: who were the customers for coal in Chippenham at your period, where did they get their coal, and hence what colliery wagons would you expect to see? Perhaps @wagonman can comment...

 

Thank you, yes a recent purchase and it is very good currently using to complete the 2 single plank wagons. The local industry was Wiltshire Bacon Factory and Westinghouse. There was also a brick factory and (I think it was called) Condensed milk Factory later Nestle I think.  Chippenham may also have been a point for other local coal merchants to have their deliveries as outlying towns and villages did not access, Calne two n had it's own branch for Harris Bacon and sausages as well as supplies.

[wagonman]

As you already have the book any further comment would be superfluous. I recommend you look at Mortimore as he was the most important coal merchant in the town. They were not customers of the GRC&W until much later, though. The Westinghouse factory was, in your period, still Saxby & Farmer signal works and as far as I know did not operate any wagons of their own.

 

These comments are made from memory as George the cat has just plonked himself on my lap so I can't reach a copy of the book. You don't argue with George!