Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[InterCity80s]

2 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

My AS Deltic and 37 will be the same price as I payed on the pre order.

And so would your APT if you'd pre-ordered from Hornby themselves (I assume, if this follows the way they have handled previous price increases...)

Edited January 3, 2022 by InterCity80s

[WestRail642fan]

can i just say, when i pre-ordered my APT, the coaches were at £89.99, and when Hornby took payment for them, after the price increase mind you, they still only took the £90 per coach pack, so im hoping that they'll only take the money of the APT it was at when i pre-ordered (£484.99)

[InterCity80s]

Slightly OT for the APT but I've just noticed the Class 91s are now £217.99 on Hornby's website. The RRP was £169.99 when I pre-ordered mine (from my usual retailer who were, at the time, offering a 10% discount down to £152.99).

 

I don't think my retailer are going to be able to honour that original price (nor would I reasonably expect them to) so I guess I'm now looking at a retailer price of about £196 ish?

[InterCity80s]

2 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

can i just say, when i pre-ordered my APT, the coaches were at £89.99, and when Hornby took payment for them, after the price increase mind you, they still only took the £90 per coach pack, so im hoping that they'll only take the money of the APT it was at when i pre-ordered (£484.99)

Same happened with me. For some reason I can't quite remember, I had ordered one of the coach packs from Hornby themselves rather than my usual retailer. They all ended up costing about the same as my retailer applied a 10% discount on the new higher price.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, scumcat said:

I think we all understand this. I certainly do,

 

I accept that you do. The current Retail Price topic is an illustration that many, in the wider hobby, don't. I could see initial wailings starting in this topic so, to not have RSI of the eardrums, I thought it worth drawing a line before the predictable wailing and gnashing of teeth got to the chorus.

[boxbrownie]

35 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

And so would your APT if you'd pre-ordered from Hornby themselves (I assume, if this follows the way they have handled previous price increases...)

Famously to assume makes an ass out of you and me 

[stonojnr]

1 hour ago, RedgateModels said:

The original version was not cheap. Christmas and birthday money had to be combined to get my hands on a first release set 40 odd years ago.

 

me? Not getting a new one, but am still pondering a dev coach. Would have to respray  the beige for incorrect blue/grey to match my earlier examples. Or get the 3d printed version…..

 

it was £50 wasnt it ? which is about 200 in todays money, I had a choice of an APT or a Lima HST, and I went for the HST as the HST was the train Id seen and ridden on and train spotted the most, and I thought Id never see an actual APT in real life, which turned out to be true in the end.

 

 

[RedgateModels]

15 minutes ago, stonojnr said:

 

it was £50 wasnt it ? which is about 200 in todays money, I had a choice of an APT or a Lima HST, and I went for the HST as the HST was the train Id seen and ridden on and train spotted the most, and I thought Id never see an actual APT in real life, which turned out to be true in the end.

 

 

My recollection is that it was more than that, nearer £75, but I could be wrong

 

£67.95 according to http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=391

Edited January 3, 2022 by RedgateModels

[TomScrut]

42 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

And so would your APT if you'd pre-ordered from Hornby themselves (I assume, if this follows the way they have handled previous price increases...)

 

It will be interesting if they do honour the prices they sold stuff direct for.

 

Would mean ordering anything direct pre summer last year would be better for everyone (except dealers) I expect.

[InterCity80s]

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

It will be interesting if they do honour the prices they sold stuff direct for.

 

Would mean ordering anything direct pre summer last year would be better for everyone (except dealers) I expect.

Yeah. I placed an "insurance" pre-order from Hornby around the time when people were getting their retailer pre-orders for other items cancelled at the last minute and the tiering system news came out. My Hornby pre-order was at the then full RRP (£484.99), which was higher than my retailer pre-order (10% under RRP).

 

When Hornby put their prices up last summer, my two pre-orders were going to cost about the same (Hornby at the original RRP, retailer at 10% under the new RRP of £533.49).

 

Once it became clear that my retailer didn't appear to have been impacted by the tiering changes/stock allocation cancellations, I decided to cancel my Hornby pre-order and stick with my preferred retailer. In hindsight that probably wasn't the greatest decision from a financial perspective 

[TomScrut]

23 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

Yeah. I placed an "insurance" pre-order from Hornby around the time when people were getting their retailer pre-orders for other items cancelled at the last minute and the tiering system news came out. My Hornby pre-order was at the then full RRP (£484.99), which was higher than my retailer pre-order (10% under RRP).

 

When Hornby put their prices up last summer, my two pre-orders were going to cost about the same (Hornby at the original RRP, retailer at 10% under the new RRP of £533.49).

 

Once it became clear that my retailer didn't appear to have been impacted by the tiering changes/stock allocation cancellations, I decided to cancel my Hornby pre-order and stick with my preferred retailer. In hindsight that probably wasn't the greatest decision from a financial perspective 

 

It probably was from a moral perspective though IMO.

 

That's the thing though. I think this will have a bigger impact on dealers than anyone else as they are ultimately the ones who buy off Hornby (other than the direct sales which can't be a large percentage) and so might be the victims of any cancellations or downturn in sales rather than Hornby themselves (in the short term at least).

 

On top of that, combine the pre order cancellation raffle that happened last year with dealers and the suggestion of honouring pre order prices when buying direct and the argument for ordering direct to ensure you get one at the price you ordered it for sounds quite compelling.

Edited January 3, 2022 by TomScrut

[boxbrownie]

45 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

My recollection is that it was more than that, nearer £75, but I could be wrong

 

£67.95 according to http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=391

Wasn’t that the train set, the train pack was

5th January 1981 Price List, R.794 A.P.T. Pack £52.75 (Spring)

 

All I can find easily

[RedgateModels]

15 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Wasn’t that the train set, the train pack was

5th January 1981 Price List, R.794 A.P.T. Pack £52.75 (Spring)

 

All I can find easily

 

yes, you are right, when I got mine the only option was the set. Agreed not a direct cost comparison. My impression still stands though. It was more expensive than the hst set that came the previous Christmas without the assistance of birthday cash

 

although that was two power cars and one coach, so again, not a direct comparison …….

Edited January 3, 2022 by RedgateModels

[Mr_Tilt]

38 minutes ago, Willoughby Glen said:

 

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the first person trying to sell one of these on ebay at a Grand once they arrive and flagging in the ebay madness thread!!

 

 

That's exactly what happened with the Rapido APT-Es. The day after we handed out the initial batch of models at the York Show, one of them appeared on eBay with a 30% increased price tag!

 

OK, the APT-E was a limited edition effectively, but selling one that fast surprised me somewhat.

 

Greed Rules OK it seems. 

[boxbrownie]

24 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

so again, not a direct comparison …….

It never will be 

[miles73128]

9 minutes ago, Mr_Tilt said:

 

That's exactly what happened with the Rapido APT-Es. The day after we handed out the initial batch of models at the York Show, one of them appeared on eBay with a 30% increased price tag!

 

OK, the APT-E was a limited edition effectively, but selling one that fast surprised me somewhat.

 

Greed Rules OK it seems. 

No, its was market value. Rapido under priced, it should have been more expensive to maximise yield - as the second runs is......

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, stonojnr said:

 

it was £50 wasnt it ? which is about 200 in todays money, I had a choice of an APT or a Lima HST, and I went for the HST as the HST was the train Id seen and ridden on and train spotted the most, and I thought Id never see an actual APT in real life, which turned out to be true in the end.

 

 

2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

My recollection is that it was more than that, nearer £75, but I could be wrong

 

£67.95 according to http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=391

 

This equals £298 in 2020 figures (so already out of date) using the Bank of England Inflation Calculator

 

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Wasn’t that the train set, the train pack was

5th January 1981 Price List, R.794 A.P.T. Pack £52.75 (Spring)

 

 

That equals £238 in 2020 figures. I could afford neither, Birthday and Christmas money wouldn't have got me a quarter of the way, so no APT as a child or a teenager.

 

I did buy one about 25 years ago; and I am lucky enough to be able to afford the new APT too. So for me the current offering is far more 'affordable', which is a roundabout way of saying they are all 'luxury' goods and it is only by luck, circumstance and priorities that anyone can afford any of this stuff!

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

It will be interesting if they do honour the prices they sold stuff direct for.

 

Would mean ordering anything direct pre summer last year would be better for everyone (except dealers) I expect.

Hornby have always honoured my pre-order prices, ever since 2014, in some cases 3 year old prices have been honoured…

I've never had Hornby raise a price on a pre-order…more than 90 orders.

 

None of my retail pre-order prices have been honoured in 2021 where a price rise happened, including one that was fully prepaid.

I pointed out that a 10% discount was available in December in the Bargains thread, meaning orders before December 31st would actually be at Jan 2021 prices on Hornby.com. You can also cancel anytime, without penalty.

 

 

 

Additionally If you ordered in December you also get between 10% and 15% vouchers off new 2022 orders before March 31st…which puts you ahead of retailer discounts, and obviously can apply to get discounts off the new 2022 range.

its not as if people weren't informed.

 

However if your loyalty is to a retailer, it is what it is, and its been suggested rules apply to them about discounts that might put them at disadvantage to Hornby.com.

 

I’m sure the trade might be more aware of this than I.

 

But as a customer it feels to me, and apologies to my retail friends, if price is important, Hornby directly is your safest bet, sooner the better to lock in, and easy to cancel if you want out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by adb968008

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

it is what it is.

 

Just the response I got from the big H in 2021.....

 

I've given up with them unless I can bring myself round to another Class 60 or a KFA.

[InterCity80s]

Probably not a massive surprise but it looks as though a single powered NDM struggles with a full 14 car set:

 

 

I doubt I'll be running mine with more than 10 cars tbh but possibly worth considering an extra powered NDM (if you can still find one) for anyone intending to use the 7 car set as the basis for a full 14 car train?

[E100]

I'll be honest I was surprised it did as well as it did. Looks like with some feathered control it can do it which I didn't expect at all. This also suggests the motor has plenty of torque if there's wheel spinning. Nevertheless for anything above 10 car it appears like two is definitely the way to go and especially so if gradients are involved.

[letterspider]

Does the power car have traction tyres?

it would be surprising Hornby didn't opt for traction tyres like in their VEP, perhaps they did try them out in testing and they wore out too soon

 

[Roy Langridge]

Glad I have a second powered NDM sitting here along with the coaches waiting for my 7-car set...

Roy

[InterCity80s]

Latest editon of Hornby's Engine Shed blog says that the APTs are due this month:

 

Quote

The wait is almost over and for those of you who have the coach packs at home, you’ll be pleased to know that the train packs are almost here! Both the APT 5-car pack and 7-car pack will be arriving early this month and we are just as excited for their arrival as you are!

 

Link: https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/a-star-from-the-east

[PaulRhB]

Still rather unfortunate that they’ve never answered questions about the ability of the NDM and it’s left to a YouTuber to answer it once they are difficult to find. It also begs the question of how you get an authentic later livery set without buying a spare and swapping bodies! 
Hopefully I have a spare NDM on the way now thanks to posts here so it will be able to visit friends layouts that aren’t dead flat.