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Hornby APT (2020 tooling)


PaulRhB
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9 hours ago, Markwj said:

So having seen a couple of pics of the 5 car on layouts- how are we finding them -running ok (apart from the extra ndm issue), light bleed ok or not- any derailing issues- just to point out not looking for issues hopefully my 7 car will come this next week, hoping for flawless reports!

I tried taking a video of the set running in subdued lighting but do not have the technology to post it, so I took a screen shot. In my opinion the lights seem bright and the reflections from inside seem to dominate.

As for running there were no derailing or other problems. The layout is 25ft x 5ft with roughly 24inch radius curves. Track is code 100 with standard Peco points including double slip

ATP Lights.png

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1 hour ago, Scrooge said:

I tried taking a video of the set running in subdued lighting but do not have the technology to post it, so I took a screen shot. In my opinion the lights seem bright and the reflections from inside seem to dominate.

As for running there were no derailing or other problems. The layout is 25ft x 5ft with roughly 24inch radius curves. Track is code 100 with standard Peco points including double slip

ATP Lights.png

It may be my monitor &/or eyes but is the lighting in the far right coach a totally different colour to the others ?

Or is it a different colour interior that gives that effect ?

Edited by SamThomas
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37 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

It may be my monitor &/or eyes but is the lighting in the far right coach a totally different colour to the others ?

Or is it a different colour interior that gives that effect ?

 

I think this was discussed when a set was running on Pete Waterman's layout - it's the interior colour IIRC

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On 14/01/2022 at 17:16, E100 said:

Would be easy with 6 core through wiring.... ....2 for lights, 2 for speakers and 2 for pickups... ....one could dream!

Not so easy, I think.  Although I've not tried it (yet), you would need at least 8, rather than 6.  Headlights, taillights, coach interior lights (all seperate circuits), lighting return, 2x pickup, 2x speaker.

And that assumes the decoder would have the capacity to send sounds for horn only to the front speaker, diesel generator only to both front and rear and traction sounds only to the centre.

Does such a decoder exist?

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1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

Not so easy, I think.  Although I've not tried it (yet), you would need at least 8, rather than 6.  Headlights, taillights, coach interior lights (all seperate circuits), lighting return, 2x pickup, 2x speaker.

And that assumes the decoder would have the capacity to send sounds for horn only to the front speaker, diesel generator only to both front and rear and traction sounds only to the centre.

Does such a decoder exist?

Correct in that it would need to be 8 core from the decoder for proper lighting control as you say but still not insurmountable for a flagship product IMO.

In terms of the speakers, yeah I had made the assumption it would all be from the centre speaker as with most DMU/EMU's. That being said with the length being so long the speaker location may well be much more noticeable that with smaller examples though arguably still acceptable for the vast majority of users.

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3 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Thanks for that although PW's layout was, IMHO lacking in a number of respects.

Maybe not perfect but quite impressive and as a general public exhibition piece probably as perfect as it needed to be.

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11 hours ago, E100 said:

Correct in that it would need to be 8 core from the decoder for proper lighting control as you say but still not insurmountable for a flagship product IMO.

 

Hornby managed a coupler with through electrical connections (4 pin) in the original 4-VEP. Having done that, adding more pins is less of a challenge than designing the initial concept...

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16 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:

 

Hornby managed a coupler with through electrical connections (4 pin) in the original 4-VEP. Having done that, adding more pins is less of a challenge than designing the initial concept...

Hornby could actually leap ahead and make the 4 pin coupler connection digital with a built in purpose made decoder for the lighting and maybe a horn speaker in each driving car and even controlling passenger lighting in other cars all controlled from a main sound decoder in the motor car…….dream on I hear you say? :D

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1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Maybe not perfect but quite impressive and as a general public exhibition piece probably as perfect as it needed to be.

The things I disliked about it were "easy fixes" - small radius crossovers, light through tunnel mouths, absence of close couplings, running with panto's down (admittedly so does Miniature Wunderland).

However, just because something is for "general public" does not mean standards can be lower.

I did like the OHLE though.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

The things I disliked about it were "easy fixes" - small radius crossovers, light through tunnel mouths, absence of close couplings, running with panto's down (admittedly so does Miniature Wunderland).

However, just because something is for "general public" does not mean standards can be lower.

I did like the OHLE though.

 

 

Well you seem to be looking for a bite, so I’ll give you one.

 

Standards have to be lower for practicality - the fine scale nature of some stuff won’t tolerate the distances those models were doing . And the public wants action , they neither know nor care about the small details.

 

Please show us your layout so we can critique it for you ? 

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Also, some of the OH locos had springs that were too powerful and would wreck the OHLE.

 

Locos pulling trains with tail lights on was mainly down to not wanting to modify CVS or other stuff, as a lot of the stock was on loan.

 

When you own everything, then you can modify everything to suit…;)

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29 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Well you seem to be looking for a bite, so I’ll give you one.

 

Standards have to be lower for practicality - the fine scale nature of some stuff won’t tolerate the distances those models were doing . And the public wants action , they neither know nor care about the small details.

 

Please show us your layout so we can critique it for you ? 

Not looking for a bite at all.

 

I don't see any of the area's that I critisesised (spelling ?) as "fine scale). If you want to see how "out of the box" equipment tolerates distances/use have a look at some of commercial setups like Miniature Wunderland or the one at New Romney.

 

You will see my layout when it's finished & operational.

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3 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Also, some of the OH locos had springs that were too powerful and would wreck the OHLE.

 

Locos pulling trains with tail lights on was mainly down to not wanting to modify CVS or other stuff, as a lot of the stock was on loan.

 

When you own everything, then you can modify everything to suit…;)

I had already acknowledged the "pantos down", but appreciate knowing the reason.

 

I never mentioned locomotive tail lights.

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2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Not looking for a bite at all.

 

I don't see any of the area's that I critisesised (spelling ?) as "fine scale). If you want to see how "out of the box" equipment tolerates distances/use have a look at some of commercial setups like Miniature Wunderland or the one at New Romney.

 

You will see my layout when it's finished & operational.

Really ?

the major difference between the German one and this , is that is a fixed multi million pound tourist attraction they have over there.

 

PW’s setup is a large roundy roundy that can be moved.

 

You are comparing the village fete with Disneyland 

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3 hours ago, SamThomas said:

I had already acknowledged the "pantos down", but appreciate knowing the reason.

 

I never mentioned locomotive tail lights.


No, but I did, and was told the reasoning. ;) :)
 

So I thought that I’d put it in while I was at it! :D
 

 

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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10 hours ago, Bloodnok said:

 

Hornby managed a coupler with through electrical connections (4 pin) in the original 4-VEP. Having done that, adding more pins is less of a challenge than designing the initial concept...

As someone who has had to repair as well as couple the VEPs with those infernal couplings I'm glad they've left them well alone for the APT otherwise those with 14 coach formations would still be trying to join it together next Christmas :blink:

Edited by andyman7
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Given the design of the shared bogies is totally unique to the APT,  I don’t see how a VEP style coupling would help here.

 

if you want to through wire, the wire would have to run from coach end to coach end and not through the bogies.

 

There are (of course!) cables on the real thing connecting the coaches to copy if you so wish…

 

Guy

 

APT-P at Crewe Heritage Centre

 

APT-P at Crewe Heritage Centre

 

APT-P at Crewe Heritage Centre


Lots more detail shots on my Flickr gallery.

Edited by lyneux
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3 hours ago, lyneux said:

Given the design of the shared bogies is totally unique to the APT,  I don’t see how a VEP style coupling would help here.

 

if you want to through wire, the wire would have to run from coach end to coach end and not through the bogies.

 

There are (of course!) cables on the real thing connecting the coaches to copy if you so wish…

 

Guy

 

 

 

APT-P at Crewe Heritage Centre

 

 


Lots more detail shots on my Flickr gallery.

I am not so sure Hornby could afford all that wire required on the curves…8D9CE2DC-3FD1-4CF7-9570-B03D044B4A48.jpeg.0e1f4d0e892575f0f38e297824e12533.jpeg

 

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2 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

Interesting that the pictures above show the white banding misaligned and different sizes.  This could be something Hornby gets right ;)

That was the extra detail they were striving for when visiting the centre for reference…..shame they didn’t notice the carriages were at different heights/tilt at the time :lol:

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I'm not suggesting that Hornby fit through wiring, but that if we (as modellers) want realism, then we could fit this wiring ourselves (along with modifying the ball couplings to couple up a bit closer!).

 

I won't be running mine on curves like the one shown as the gap just looks terrible. In fact, I'm wondering whether in that photo the cars are even coupled together correctly?

 

Guy

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2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:


different levels of tilt between the cars …..

 

I don't think so. I think it's actually the paint job itself. As can be seen from this photo. Look at the screw positions versus the lines. The question in my mind is whether this was down to vehicles being painted with this discrepancy back in 1979 or whether it was the repaint at Crewe Heritage Centre that caused these to be different (although this doesn't make sense why they would move the line)? The car on the left is the van trailer, the car on the right the buffet. 

 

The buffet is from a different set than the van trailer and driving trailer so my guess is that different rakes were painted with the stripes in different positions.


Guy

 

APT-P at Crewe Heritage Centre

 

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