Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[Ouroborus]

Had mine running tonight.  Can't say I'm happy with it. 

 

The NDMs are forever derailing and throwing themselves off the track.  It happens over pointwork.   They don't half feel 'clunky' as well.  On the upside, motor works fine and no sqeeking

 

I'll check the track again but i don't have this problem with anything else.

 

 

[Norski]

32 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

Had mine running tonight.  Can't say I'm happy with it. 

 

The NDMs are forever derailing and throwing themselves off the track.  It happens over pointwork.   They don't half feel 'clunky' as well.  On the upside, motor works fine and no sqeeking

 

I'll check the track again but i don't have this problem with anything else.

 

 

 

Spent a bit of time looking at it last night. As it goes through the frog you'll see the wheels dip into the centre of the frog. It does it with all my stock to some extent but it seems to be accentuated on the APT by its smaller wheels. Sounds worse when the NDM goes over it because the weight pushes the wheel down harder.

 

It also derailed on one particular point repeatedly. Tried running just the NDM (no other coaches) over it continuously as i thought it may be linked to the power car being mid-train but it still derailed. In the end it just seemed to calm down and i can run over that point at a very un-prototypical max power. No science to it but it does appear to be running 'smoother' everywhere now its had a run in. 

 

[MoonM]

Overall I am happy with the 7 car set I received. However I do suffer from the 'Hornby paranoia' of being worried about getting a 'dud' as this sometimes does happen from Hornby as we all well know!  Unfortunately my model suffered a small crack in one of the non driving end car's bogies (wondering whether to try and fix myself or ask my retailer to fix). 

However the paranoia also has me questioning whether my driving motor car is 'normal' and would appreciate some help please from others who have purchased...

Full disclosure I am currently testing on my boy's dc layout on third radius curves (new house means that 'proper' oo gauge layout is pending other diy jobs needing fixing first, ie full house redecoration needs to come first!). I have noticed the motor car is very noisy under running at all speeds and appears to lose considerable speed navigating third radius curves. Are you all seeing this or just me? I also note a very slight bulge on one side of the motor car's body where it clips into the chassis. Doesn't really bother me as I can't really see this (can just feel it when holding the model). I'm just more wondering whether all normal under there? Also wondering how, if struggling with 7 cars, how the model will fair eventually with a 10 car rake on my future dcc layout (there will be a 4th radius helix to climb but otherwise a lot more space and less significant curves)? Thank you

[RyanN91]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes it’s worth about £4.59 now

 

So enjoy playing with it instead  

 

Anyone who’s that bothered by a tiny split when it’s secondhand will be equally fussy about the train so they can be fun to deal with. I had to photograph all corners of a box for some Corgi I sold but fair do to the bloke he paid top price in a bidding war and shipping and left excellent feedback as I’d put about nine layers of bubble wrap around it! 
If you bought it as an investment don’t run it either but it’s not really worth worrying about if you bought it for the model to run. 

Yes i intend to keep them both and I will continue to use both and I will enjoy playing with them! 

The 5 car set was from an independent retailer. 

 

The 7 car set came directly from Hornby. Thankfully they also honoured the second pre order price. The split was there as soon as I flapped the cardboard lid over so I guess these tiny floors are inevitable mine probably isn't the only one like it I imagine! 

 

Mind you their newer train sets with the plup trays instead of the polystyrene trays on recipient do have inevitable spilts at the corners on the outter box packaging design before you even take the contents out. My R1230M GWR HST set arrived like it. 

 

 

 

[zoomer1979]

On 25/01/2022 at 12:27, Dragonfly said:

Of course, there is one coach that wants to lean when it shouldn't, but as noted above, quite prototypical.

 

Additional: On further investigation, it would appear that the bogie of the neighbouring coach is a bit warped. I@ve been able to straighten it out about 75% or so, but it's still not right. But thankfully this is only affecting one item out of 14.

 

We sent back four coach packs due to the bogies being warped, so it's not an isolated problem. Been waiting on them coming back since early December.

[APT Fan]

15 hours ago, letterspider said:

Capacitor moved and passengers added.

The tables have holes beneath them so you don't have to cut off the legs of your passengers

 

 

 

Saw pictures of the factory fitted capcitor and thought it looked a mess. Why did they fit it that way, surely it doesn't require a massive capacotor for such an application and a better solution could have been found. Just seems like an unplanned after thought to me, The decision to leave the corridor doors open seems a bit odd too. 

[APT Fan]

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

[Wolf27]

1 minute ago, APT Fan said:

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

When you say upgrading do you mean to the new model? If so then yes. You can legitimately run it as a five car set if space is an issue. 

[Ouroborus]

4 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

 

With a small bit of work, a modern NDM will fit it.  It won't however, match it.  So you'd have a six car set which the NDM should just about be able to pull around.

[boxbrownie]

18 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

Will that affect its value at all?  I've not had this with new train packs before. 

 

 

Depends if you bought it to use or as an investment 

[pwr]

Got mine today.

 

Given concerns around the ability of the single powered NDM to satisfactorily run a full 14 car set I have written to Hornby asking them if they intend to provide a free swap out - the non powered NDM for a powered version. Given they have acknowledged this problem it feels to me its not fit for purpose and sold knowing it won't perform as intended and as indicated on the box. I am sure some consumer law expert could opine but as it stands I face having to pay £133 just to make it work as a full set. This doesn't feel right to me.

 

Has anyone else had power problems on 14 cars or are we too early to say?

 

Paul R

Edited January 27, 2022 by pwr
spelling

[boxbrownie]

25 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

So have I and I also bought the new NDM a while ago to replace the original powered car as that’s really the big improvement to the set IMO, just going to change the couplings.

 

As an aside I chipped the NDM and it whizzes around my smallish layout at full speed without issue at all….all by itself at the moment.

[Norski]

14 hours ago, MoonM said:

Overall I am happy with the 7 car set I received. However I do suffer from the 'Hornby paranoia' of being worried about getting a 'dud' as this sometimes does happen from Hornby as we all well know!  Unfortunately my model suffered a small crack in one of the non driving end car's bogies (wondering whether to try and fix myself or ask my retailer to fix). 

However the paranoia also has me questioning whether my driving motor car is 'normal' and would appreciate some help please from others who have purchased...

Full disclosure I am currently testing on my boy's dc layout on third radius curves (new house means that 'proper' oo gauge layout is pending other diy jobs needing fixing first, ie full house redecoration needs to come first!). I have noticed the motor car is very noisy under running at all speeds and appears to lose considerable speed navigating third radius curves. Are you all seeing this or just me? I also note a very slight bulge on one side of the motor car's body where it clips into the chassis. Doesn't really bother me as I can't really see this (can just feel it when holding the model). I'm just more wondering whether all normal under there? Also wondering how, if struggling with 7 cars, how the model will fair eventually with a 10 car rake on my future dcc layout (there will be a 4th radius helix to climb but otherwise a lot more space and less significant curves)? Thank you

 

Re motor noise. Mine didn't sound great out of the box but ive run it for a few hours in both directions now and it definitely sounds quiet and smoother. That seems to be the norm for new stuff anyway. 

 

Im running as low as 2nd radius on hidden curves with no issue or power drop...but im DCC with power drops coming off most pieces of track.

 

[MoonM]

2 hours ago, Norski said:

 

Re motor noise. Mine didn't sound great out of the box but ive run it for a few hours in both directions now and it definitely sounds quiet and smoother. That seems to be the norm for new stuff anyway. 

 

Im running as low as 2nd radius on hidden curves with no issue or power drop...but im DCC with power drops coming off most pieces of track.

 

Thank you. I'll give mine a little more time to run in and go again. So you're getting no loss of speed on your 2nd radius with a 7 car setup? Interesting

[APT Fan]

4 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

When you say upgrading do you mean to the new model? If so then yes. You can legitimately run it as a five car set if space is an issue. 

 

Sorry yes, I meant upgrade from the old model to the new model, looks nice. I didn't write that very well. I'm surprised how different the colours are on the new model, didn't realise they got the old one so wrong, not that it has ever bothered me in the past. I'm currently and gradually replacing my old locos with newer ones mainly because I prefer the modern mechanisms more than anything else.

 

I'm struggling to find a modern replacement for my HST in classic 80s livery so that's been DCC sound and light converted, but will probably need re-motoring by the look of it. Until now the APT was in the same category in terms of not having a replacement option. I'm just not sure I can justify the £430 when I haven't got a permanent layout at the moment. Then again I'll have an awful lot of work to get mine up to the spec I want and it won't be cheap either. Have to say the old one still looks great though. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by APT Fan

[Norski]

49 minutes ago, MoonM said:

Thank you. I'll give mine a little more time to run in and go again. So you're getting no loss of speed on your 2nd radius with a 7 car setup? Interesting

 

None at all. Ive run it with 9 cars.

What i have done - and im not sure if it came like this or its just my filthy track - i have given the power car wheels a clean. I soak some blue paper (the type you get in dispensing machines in toilets) with iso alcohol. I lay it across a piece of track and place one set of bogies on it, the other set on bare track (half on half off). I then increase the power gradually while gently holding the power car with my hand. The wheels should start to spin if you hold it lightly. The wheels on the blue paper are spinning in iso alcohol which strips any crud off the wheels. The blue paper was absolutely stinking on one set of bogies. May be just my track but worth check ing all your contacts are super clean. Same goes for the track - i find tight bends are a haven for muck

Edited January 27, 2022 by Norski

[Ouroborus]

Mines just died. (7 car)  Continues to derail, didn't make four circuits before the motor or chip seems to have gone pop.  Familiar smell coming from it.  Really not happy with it.  I think this one is going back

[WestRail642fan]

1 hour ago, Ouroborus said:

Mines just died. (7 car)  Continues to derail, didn't make four circuits before the motor or chip seems to have gone pop.  Familiar smell coming from it.  Really not happy with it.  I think this one is going back

did it start smoking from the bogey by chance? Because my one did exactly that, i'll be posting the NDM back to Hornby for repairs tomorrow

[MoonM]

19 hours ago, pwr said:

Got mine today.

 

Given concerns around the ability of the single powered NDM to satisfactorily run a full 14 car set I have written to Hornby asking them if they intend to provide a free swap out - the non powered NDM for a powered version. Given they have acknowledged this problem it feels to me its not fit for purpose and sold knowing it won't perform as intended and as indicated on the box. I am sure some consumer law expert could opine but as it stands I face having to pay £133 just to make it work as a full set. This doesn't feel right to me.

 

Has anyone else had power problems on 14 cars or are we too early to say?

 

Paul R

Whilst I completely see your logic (and Hornby could consider this as a gesture of goodwill - they won't I'm sure!) this won't stand up I'm afraid in a court of law. It would always be argued that you have had the option to return the model and receive you money back if you feel you have been missold. 

[rob D2]

It’s a sad fact of modern Hornby DE , that before I’d even contemplate buying something I’d see the feedback first, 

Theres seems to be an issue with under testing the performance of the APT .

[MoonM]

31 minutes ago, MoonM said:

Whilst I completely see your logic (and Hornby could consider this as a gesture of goodwill - they won't I'm sure!) this won't stand up I'm afraid in a court of law. It would always be argued that you have had the option to return the model and receive you money back if you feel you have been missold. 

And apologies for replying to my own post but the interesting point could be what if people do decide to return there purchases? Should be no issue with the 5/7 car sets but what about the additional coach packs received months ago? They will be outside the statutory returns period and technically nothing wrong with them (as the problem is with the motors, or lack of an additional one). You will be protected in this instance as easy to argue that the coaches are redundant without the units to power them and reasonably foreseeable that any issues with the main sets would cause this. It might just be a harder ride though to get that money back. If you went to court you should win but is it worth the hassle/cost? 

[boxbrownie]

11 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

did it start smoking from the bogey by chance? Because my one did exactly that, i'll be posting the NDM back to Hornby for repairs tomorrow

The motor is centrally mounted I believe so would assume that bogie smoking was just a ventilation hole with least resistance. 

[PaulRhB]

A few coach packs at £80 here if anyones looking. 
 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/search/?q=Hornby+apt

 

[spamcan61]

18 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

A few coach packs at £80 here if anyones looking. 
 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/search/?q=Hornby+apt

 

Seems odd an online only 'shop' has stock, wouldn't think they were tier 1 material...

[Roddy Angus]

54 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Seems odd an online only 'shop' has stock, wouldn't think they were tier 1 material...

 

Wonderland have a large physical shop in the centre of Edinburgh.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy