Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

That's way up there with HO European models price wise.........

1. So is the detail nowadays

Piko 4 car ICE set £415, additional coaches £40 each so £525. The Marklin version is a bit more at £564 for a 5 car set. 

 

2. and what was the rrp for the last Bachmann Blue Pullman 6 car set?

£599.95 so right in line with their major UK competitors too. In fact cheaper per coach. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by PaulRhB

[boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

1. So is the detail nowadays

Piko 4 car ICE set £415, additional coaches £40 each so £525. The Marklin version is a bit more at £564 for a 5 car set. 

 

2. and what was the rrp for the last Bachmann Blue Pullman 6 car set?

£599.95 so right in line with their major UK competitors too. In fact cheaper per coach. 

European capacitor was it? 

[SamThomas]

38 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

1. So is the detail nowadays

 

Not quite Paul - the Piko one does not suffer from light bleed from the headlights & has Close & Conductive couplings throughout meaning one decoder only in the centre powered coach required.

Also, on the APT there seems to be a lot of daylight between the body/bogie areas. OK, neither the Piko or Trix tilt but Fleischmann used to do a tilting ICE-T if you really want a tilting HO train.

& of course the Trix & Marklin versions are fully lit throughout as standard.

 

BTW - are you aware that the Piko & Trix coaches/power cars are interchangeable ?

Edited December 13, 2021 by SamThomas

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, SamThomas said:

Not quite Paul - the Piko one does not suffer from light bleed from the headlights &

Ok so is the final production one seen to have bleed?

 

1 minute ago, SamThomas said:

has Close & Conductive couplings throughout meaning one decoder only in the centre powered coach required.

ok but that’s spec not detail and only makes about £20-30 difference in two function decoders. 

 

1 minute ago, SamThomas said:

Also, on the APT there seems to be a lot of daylight between the body/bogie areas. OK, neither the Piko or Trix tilt but Fleischmann used to do a tilting ICE-T if you really want a tilting HO train.

A difficult one because like the Double Fairlie, criticised for the power bogie front by someone, viewing straight side on is rare so it’s not noticeable from most normal angles. It doesn’t look too bad even in the straight on shots to me which it’s highlighted by a white background. It doesn’t look significantly different from my older fleischmann ICE in that area. 
I’ll reserve judgement for the final set but the coaches already here don’t look spindly in that area to me stood on the track. 

 

[SamThomas]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

ok but that’s spec not detail and only makes about £20-30 difference in two function decoders.

 

I think you've missed my points Paul.

Close couplings are detail & in any case details & spec' go hand in hand.

To reiterate - the APT is in the same ball park as european models but not quite the same detai/spec.

[PaulRhB]

10 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

I think you've missed my points Paul.

Close couplings are detail & in any case details & spec' go hand in hand.

Just a different choice of words, I use detail for the cosmetic detail and spec for the functional aspects. 

 

10 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

To reiterate - the APT is in the same ball park as european models but not quite the same detai/spec.

It’s toward the lower end, above the Marklin Start range, on a par with Piko and quite a bit cheaper than the Marklin or Roco equivalents. It’s not like all European models are perfect either for the money   I’ve had to modify £300 Tillig steam locos!
More importantly in the directly comparable UK market per coach it sits below the more complex Bachmann Pullman. 
Overall it’s just a question of whether the buyer perceives it as value and you make your choice from there. 
On the coaches I’ve already got it surpasses the earlier model and apart from the clumsy capacitor I’m quite happy with it so far for the price in the current market. 
 

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

 

ok but that’s spec not detail and only makes about £20-30 difference in two function decoders. 

 

It’s be a darn sight more than that, you’d need a function decoder in each lit car to match the function of controlling the lights in each car, it infuriate me on a couple of my DMUs that the interior lights are powered directly from the track and need modification to be able to turn interior lights off when stabled.

[WestRail642fan]

So, given whats happened with the W1 model, im terrified about my 7 car set arriving in a trillion pieces 

[wairoa]

22 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

So, given whats happened with the W1 model, im terrified about my 7 car set arriving in a trillion pieces 

 

I have the 5 car set on order, but it has to be posted from Hornby and travel across the Atlantic. I am more than a little alarmed. I hope my 5 car set does not become a 7 car set.

Edited December 15, 2021 by wairoa

[PaulRhB]

11 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

So, given whats happened with the W1 model, im terrified about my 7 car set arriving in a trillion pieces 

The coaches didn’t and the parts getting smashed on the steam locos are the delicate stick out details only really applicable to the NDM and those seem to have been ok as individual models. 
 

On 14/12/2021 at 10:45, boxbrownie said:

It’s be a darn sight more than that, you’d need a function decoder in each lit car to match the function of controlling the lights in each car, it infuriate me on a couple of my DMUs that the interior lights are powered directly from the track and need modification to be able to turn interior lights off when stabled.

Yes if you want to make them all switchable, I was thinking of the three Hornby specified. 
Personally all these lights are far far too bright, like headlights out of the box on most locos so I tend to add a chip and turn the light out put right down to less ‘fusion’ levels. In the case of the APT, once I’m happy it runs well all the coach lights will be disconnected as you just don’t see coaches glowing in reality and I don’t run a night time layout so it’s not worth the effort to put resistors into each one to limit it down. 
 

At the end of the day perceived value is an individual thing and if you don’t like it then don’t buy it. I’d love it to be cheaper but that’s the price point they can sell it at that makes it worth their while producing it. Comparison to individual European models isn’t necessarily fair either as there are far more ICE trains and even Blue Pullmans than APT’s so it’s not likely many will buy two let alone more  

I can easily think of solutions that would have solved light bleed on the coaches and if it happens the headlights at the design stage but equally as long as I can get in it’s easy enough to solve it myself as I’ve done to various other rtr and kit built locos before. Finding light bleed revealing the one seam you’ve missed on an etch loco is a real duh moment!

[RyanN91]

7 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

The coaches didn’t and the parts getting smashed on the steam locos are the delicate stick out details only really applicable to the NDM and those seem to have been ok as individual models. 
 

Yes if you want to make them all switchable, I was thinking of the three Hornby specified. 
Personally all these lights are far far too bright, like headlights out of the box on most locos so I tend to add a chip and turn the light out put right down to less ‘fusion’ levels. In the case of the APT, once I’m happy it runs well all the coach lights will be disconnected as you just don’t see coaches glowing in reality and I don’t run a night time layout so it’s not worth the effort to put resistors into each one to limit it down. 
 

At the end of the day perceived value is an individual thing and if you don’t like it then don’t buy it. I’d love it to be cheaper but that’s the price point they can sell it at that makes it worth their while producing it. Comparison to individual European models isn’t necessarily fair either as there are far more ICE trains and even Blue Pullmans than APT’s so it’s not likely many will buy two let alone more  

I can easily think of solutions that would have solved light bleed on the coaches and if it happens the headlights at the design stage but equally as long as I can get in it’s easy enough to solve it myself as I’ve done to various other rtr and kit built locos before. Finding light bleed revealing the one seam you’ve missed on an etch loco is a real duh moment!

Hi Paul. Well my NDM for the 5 car pack the payment was taken I had no emails or anything so I contacted the retailer they were excellent fantastic A**** service! They said they sent out emails explaining the NDMs were damaged beyond repair (but I didn't get an email they explained it must have been a technical fault). They explained that on recipient of all of their NDMs they received on order were all crushed at one end of the model with irreparable damage ( they didn't specify which end or what was damaged or whatever well any type of damage is bad minor or major!) So they explained they sent them back to Hornby and they were expecting replacements soon about a week later. I revived my NDM. I don't know Perhaps this could be the reason for the December to January delay to prevent stock from being damaged? (Or I'm barking up the wrong tree and I'm most probably wrong there altogether about the delays it's probably not the reason just "hazard a guess"!) 

[JSpencer]

I received my APT coaches today (customs issues with Brexit - great fun!).

 

Mixed with the 1980s set, I can now grasp how long the final train will be. And my fiddle yard will cope with a 14 car set. (Photo is missing one NDM but we get the idea). 

 

Can't wait for the remainder of the train!!!!

 

 

[WolfofBadenoch]

Spotted Trinidad's APT yesterday! Called James after the red engine i presume?

 

Sorry, i'll get my coat.

[Mr_Tilt]

Ooooh, does it tilt too? 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Probably, in rough seas! 

 

That is in seas that are not too rough for it to sail at all! 

[RyanN91]

2 hours ago, Mr_Tilt said:

Ooooh, does it tilt too? 

Yes it'll tilt and the on board passengers will also experience neausea! Just like it's original namesake!  They'll receive the true APT-P experience on sea instead of rail! 

[Mr_Tilt]

Actually, if you think deeply enough about it, sea sickness and so-called 'tilt sickness' are actually the exact opposite of one another. 

 

People get sea sick because they FEEL that the ship's rolling but they can't SEE anything to prove that it is, because they're inside the hull. That's why they always say go on deck if you feel sea sick as then you can see the horizon moving.

 

Aboard a fully compensated tilting train the passengers can't FEEL any tilt movement at all but they can SEE the horizon moving, at least during day-light hours.

 

I once rode from London to Ostend aboard a P&O operated Jetfoil boat, at a considerable speed, and that not only tilted while turning, very much like an APT, but also controllably pitched so that it rode the waves smoothly and its ride was very nice indeed. I certainly didn't feel see sick on that voyage, and I didn't see anyone else looking green, but when I spoke to the Engineering Officer he said they did have some passengers who became sick, but not too many. 

 

He was most interested in my tales of my time on the APT too. 

 

[Bloodnok]

Have we heard any more about whether the 7 car pack has two motorised NDMs or one motor and one dummy yet?

[Watto1990]

Looks like the 5 car set has made it into the hands of at least one YouTube reviewer. The video is scheduled to go live this evening. 
 

 

[RyanN91]

5 hours ago, Bloodnok said:

Have we heard any more about whether the 7 car pack has two motorised NDMs or one motor and one dummy yet?

Hopefully January we should receive either the 5 car or 7 car pack. Hornby have updated the coming soon section today a few from December have been moved to the February 2022 section but both 5 car and 7 car APT-P Sets are still in the January 2022 section.

[stovepipe]

Interesting video. I really hope we don't have another packing fail in progress.... though perhaps the fact that OORail's 5-car set was airfreighted from Hong Kong to the USA means it will not be typical of the ones arriving here by sea?

[Dragonfly]

9 hours ago, Bloodnok said:

Have we heard any more about whether the 7 car pack has two motorised NDMs or one motor and one dummy yet?

 

I spoke to someone at Hornby on the phone a few weeks ago, who said it's only one motorised. 

[e30ftw]

Thanks for linking the video above, shame about the prob;em with the power car, i wonder if this will be a wider isue.

 

You can also notice the slight tilt on some of the corners.

[Waverley47708]

14 car set video now available.

 

 

[InterCity80s]

Looks great. The full 14 car set clearly needs a lot of space