Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[wasabi]

Referring to Kato, my impression is that they have been looking at the sort of trains that Japanese tourists might encounter on visits here and buy as 'souvenir' purchases.  It will be interesting to see if a series develops.  I had also wondered whether Kato might one day acquire Peco as a way into the UK market, but a group which has two sets of track systems (not that they are incompatible) would perhaps cause confusion in the market?  That said, Peco's distribution network must have a lot of value and B----t has meant that there has never been a better time to snap up UK assets.

[GordonC]

21 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Mine already has

 

The APT is veto'ed?? are you helping her pack if she made you choose between her or the APT? ...

[rembrow]

I've just sent a query to Hornby, via their on line e-mail form, asking for clarification of the vehicles included in the 5 car and 7 car train packs. I've also asked that if the 7 car pack has 2 N-DM vehicles, would they clarify if one or both are motorised. If I get a response I'll post it here. 

[ColinK]

Ordered a 5 car set from the ever helpful Tim at Arcadia Models in Shaw.  As I’ve already got a APT-E and the APT-POP train I just had to complete the set.

[gc4946]

I foresee a surprisingly high proportion of sales to people who wanted the APT first time round in 1980/81 but missed out. One of my work colleagues also missed out at the time but years later he subsequently bought two APTs at inflated prices.

This time he wants the new version!

Edited January 11, 2020 by gc4946

[montyburns56]

2 hours ago, gc4946 said:

I foresee a surprisingly high proportion of sales to people who wanted the APT first time round in 1980/81 but missed out. One of my work colleagues also missed out at the time but years later he subsequently bought two APTs at inflated prices.

This time he wants the new version!

 

I should imagine that now the price of the old version will drop significantly in the next year or so.

[sandwich station]

2 hours ago, gc4946 said:

 One of my work colleagues also missed out at the time but years later he subsequently bought two APTs at inflated prices.

 

What do you call inflated prices?

[gc4946]

5 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

What do you call inflated prices?

Didn't ask him when he bought his models but probably between £100-125 each for the original Hornby set in the 90s 

[oleander]

On the tilting system .Does any know if it will be mechanical like the old 1980 model. Crude but worked well. Or some smart servo route. I guess it a bit early yet to know but would be intresting.
john

[Legend]

I think it’s mechanical like the old model. Someone asked at press launch

[John ks]

Going by the prices of the coaches about £42.00 each & comparing with other coaches at about £32.00 for most & £44 for the new tool Stanier I don't see any room in the price for a servo tilt mech

 

When the 2020 range was first released the APT 7 car set was £484.99, now its £444.57 (I copied information on what I wanted into Excel )

 

[dibber25]

2 hours ago, oleander said:

On the tilting system .Does any know if it will be mechanical like the old 1980 model. Crude but worked well. Or some smart servo route. I guess it a bit early yet to know but would be intresting.
john

This question was asked at the press presentation in December. We were told that the tilt mechanism will be the same as on the earlier APT model. (CJL)

[YesTor]

4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

We were told that the tilt mechanism will be the same as on the earlier APT model. (CJL)

 

I'm not sure if that's good or not-so-good?  I wonder what else will be the same as the original model... 

 

Still, with regard to the tilting maybe it's a case of 'if it ain't broke...'

[PaulRhB]

The old tilt worked fine and what would be the point of adding unnecessary electronics which would need to have sensors on the bogies and a much smoother action than a cheap servo controller does. All it would allow is simulating a failed tilt system and the rarity of that compared to howls of unrealistic tilting movement and slow responses due to dirty track . . . 
On cost the APT is going to be a much more niche product, especially the extension coach sets, so I’m not surprised if the margin needs to be greater for a tooling that only has one livery option too. I was amazed they didn’t force you into a single extension pack!

 

[BernardTPM]

I recall one incident, from the late 1970s or early '80s I think. We'd been on a club visit to Carnforth and someone had bought a large enamel station sign that was propped up against their chair. At some point we were brought to a halt on a superelevated curve and there was a sudden, metallic 'clang' as said sign topped over and hit the seat on the opposite sid of the aisle. I thought to myself at the time, "If we'd been on APT that wouldn't happen" as the tilt sensors would have moved the coach body to a more comfortable and upright position - being fully autonomous APT tilt worked both ways.

I agree a bit OTT for a model though!

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I built this in N gauge:

 

 

It doesn't tilt but looks just fine on straight track !!!

 

Here are some discussion points:

1. What is the mechanism fitted to the OO gauge APT-E and Pendelino models et cetera ?
2. The Hornby tilt mechanism is great if you have set track curves which will result in pretty much full tilt when running through point work and almost nothing on near to scale gentle curves.
3. All trains look better for elevated track on curves which isn't often done in model form.
4. Scale curves that would require full tilt at over 125mph are generally huge in radius even scaled in N gauge.
5. Generally 4.5 chains is a minimum radius curve in yards taken a 5mph, and incidentally works out at 46.77" in OO gauge.
6. Most model railway curves, unless worked at a scale 5mph, ought to produce results such as the Morpeth sleeper train with or with out tilt !
7. The curve at Morpeth has a radius 17 chains with a full 6" of elevation and a 50mph speed limit, this scales at 176.77" or 14' 9" in OO gauge.
8. Imagination is a wonderful tool available to all humans should they choose to use it, could this be a first world problem ?

 

Gibbo.

[JSpencer]

Rapido invented a clever tilt system for their APT-E which does not instantly keel over (like the old Hornby APT) the instant it hits the curve but instead does inclines in a gradual and smooth manor. All through the use of pancakes!!

[Dixie Dean]

I'll be very surprised if the new Hornby APT will be as good as one done by Accurascale or Cavalex would have been, particularly around the lighting, front/rear/cab/carriages - will probably get front and rear but not much else, pantograph, which sat on a frame that came up through both sides of the body and not in the centre where the walkway was, and in respect of the pantograph itself - the Class 87 pantograph looks very realistic but sadly is completely unposable and is likely to break easily; sound and speakers, will there be space for a chip and speaker, front and rear and in the power car(s); and last but not least, the tilt mechanism.  I do hope to be totally wrong, but am not holding my breath.

 

All I can say to Hornby is, why not take this opportunity to raise your game a little and really impress, with full lighting, the space for full sound front rear and power car(s) (using 3 or 4 chips), a servo operated pantograph, modelled in the prototypical manner (with a choice of both types - I, myself would prefer the BWHS version), and tilt similar to the APT-E.

 

You can do it!

Edited May 13, 2020 by Dixie Dean

[Dagworth]

4 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Rapido invented a clever tilt system for their APT-E which does not instantly keel over (like the old Hornby APT) the instant it hits the curve but instead does inclines in a gradual and smooth manor. All through the use of pancakes!!

I've got a Rapido APT-E but it's very buried in its box and inaccessible at the moment. I've never had cause to open it up and it's never yet been put on rails. Can anyone elaborate on how the Rapido tilt system works please?

 

Andi

[Mel_H]

On 09/01/2020 at 14:39, wasabi said:

Referring to Kato, my impression is that they have been looking at the sort of trains that Japanese tourists might encounter on visits here and buy as 'souvenir' purchases.  It will be interesting to see if a series develops.  I had also wondered whether Kato might one day acquire Peco as a way into the UK market, but a group which has two sets of track systems (not that they are incompatible) would perhaps cause confusion in the market?  That said, Peco's distribution network must have a lot of value and B----t has meant that there has never been a better time to snap up UK assets.

 

Unless or until Peco’s ownership changes, nothing is for sale. I can assure you that any such approaches are very firmly rebuffed.

[Mel_H]

On 09/01/2020 at 09:35, JohnR said:

I think my wallet is now completely blown.

 

My 7 year old son (always been a massive fan of the APT) has now discovered the Hornby catalogue I bought. He also wants to add more Class 66's, and even the 50s in GBRf have intrigued him. He also wants a GWR HST set. And by set, I mean a full 2+8 set with all the coaches Hornby are listing now. 

 

Pray for me. 

 

We are happy for you!

 

The next step, in my experience, is wanting a layout that resembles Clapham Junction on steroids!!!

[Pete the Elaner]

13 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

All I can say to Hornby is, why not take this opportunity to raise your game a little and really impress, with full lighting, the space for full sound front rear and power car(s) (using 3 or 4 chips), a servo operated pantograph, modelled in the prototypical manner (with a choice of both types - I, myself would prefer the BWHS version), and tilt similar to the APT-E.

 

You can do it!

Hornby will be making this to a price in order to satisfy as large a market as possible. Making it the best they can will put the price beyond what some they feel will be willing to pay.

This may mean a model is not as feature-rich & detailed as some of us would like, but Hornby are there to make as much money from pleasing their customers as possible. How they go about this is their decision.

[dibber25]

14 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I've got a Rapido APT-E but it's very buried in its box and inaccessible at the moment. I've never had cause to open it up and it's never yet been put on rails. Can anyone elaborate on how the Rapido tilt system works please?

 

Andi

From memory - it's a long time since I last ran mine - it is a mechanical system which operates on the articulated bogies with a kind of pendulum effect. The coupling of the cars is a complex and fear-inducing process, but once coupled, the electrical system (for lights/sound) through the cars connects up at the same time. The mechanical tilt has the effect of locking the cars together in their curved state, thus making derailment almost impossible because the shape of the whole unit is locked to the same shape as the curve of the track. It's a clever system but the disadvantage is complexity of coupling the cars together. (CJL)

[Rob F]

Would it be true to say that any sort of speed related tilt system would be just about impossible in OO?

 

I assume the Rapido APT tilts to the same degree no matter how fast it is going, is that correct?

[ColinK]

If you do unpack you APT-E and connect the  cars together, if you are able to, it is a good idea to keep them that way.  I keep mine in a clear plastic tube with grooves for rails mounted on wall brackets (I forget the name of the supplier).   I'll probably do the same for the Hornby APT.  Most 'special' trains which only get an occasional run are stored this way on the railway room wall.