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Hornby APT (2020 tooling)


PaulRhB
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10 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

From memory - it's a long time since I last ran mine .

  14 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I've got a Rapido APT-E but it's very buried in its box and inaccessible at the moment. I've never had cause to open it up and it's never yet been put on rails. Can anyone elaborate on how the Rapido tilt system works please?

 

Without wishing to cause personal offence to either of the gentlemen quoted, do not these words make the adoption of a 'state of the art' articulation system un-necessary.  I think if Hornby can use the original system, it will suit 90+% of the potential purchasers.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C. (who had an original APT sourced here and sold it back to the UK).

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hornby will be making this to a price in order to satisfy as large a market as possible. Making it the best they can will put the price beyond what some they feel will be willing to pay.

This may mean a model is not as feature-rich & detailed as some of us would like, but Hornby are there to make as much money from pleasing their customers as possible. How they go about this is their decision.

 

Hornby opted for a plastic pantograph on the 87 and I suspect they are going to stick with it on the APT as well as the 91.

My main gripe is that as plastic is cheaper than metal - I was expecting spares would be made freely available but unfortunately not.

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5 minutes ago, letterspider said:

 

... plastic pantograph on the 87 ...  I was expecting spares would be made freely available but unfortunately not.

 

I just got one from customer services free of charge!  Why not send them an email with your address on.

 

Sadly although it looks great it can only sit on the roof folded down as it can't be posed.  So looks a lot better than the ones on the 92 but not much use.

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1 hour ago, Rob F said:

Would it be true to say that any sort of speed related tilt system would be just about impossible in OO?

 

I assume the Rapido APT tilts to the same degree no matter how fast it is going, is that correct?

I'm pretty certain the amount of tilt varies according to the sharpness of the curve. It certainly isn't affected by the speed. (CJL)

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The Rapido system looks to be a mechanical mix of the classic model railway tilt mech (basically bogies pivot with a bar pointing upwards that pushes an inverted groove fixed to the body) and there own addition, the pancake. A flat disc of plastic that tilts with the articulated bogies which is fixed to each body part of the coach.

 

The net result is not the front suddenly tilting full whack as soon as it hits a tight curve, but rather a gradual increase as more of the train enters it.

That said the Rapido system is a bit hard to join (probably needs a little white gear grease on the pancakes), but then you also have those electrical connectors for the models excellent internal lighting and on board DCC system (one chip controlling both motors in both power cars plus the speakers in each car too).

 

Hornby probably won't and probably does not need to go to this sophistication. The power car is in the middle for a start, but you may need some simple electrical connection for the end lighting.

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2 hours ago, 45568 said:

  14 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I've got a Rapido APT-E but it's very buried in its box and inaccessible at the moment. I've never had cause to open it up and it's never yet been put on rails. Can anyone elaborate on how the Rapido tilt system works please?

 

Without wishing to cause personal offence to either of the gentlemen quoted, do not these words make the adoption of a 'state of the art' articulation system un-necessary.  I think if Hornby can use the original system, it will suit 90+% of the potential purchasers.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C. (who had an original APT sourced here and sold it back to the UK).

The only reason my APT-E hasn't run yet is that the layout hasn't been set up since the RICOH outing where my 14 car Hornby set was in action 

 

Andi

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2 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

I just got one from customer services free of charge!  Why not send them an email with your address on.

 

Sadly although it looks great it can only sit on the roof folded down as it can't be posed.  So looks a lot better than the ones on the 92 but not much use.

 

Still waiting for a reply from my email last week!

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17 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

All I can say to Hornby is, why not take this opportunity to raise your game a little and really impress, with full lighting, the space for full sound front rear and power car(s) (using 3 or 4 chips), a servo operated pantograph, modelled in the prototypical manner (with a choice of both types - I, myself would prefer the BWHS version), and tilt similar to the APT-E.

 

You can do it!

Because they would lose at least 25%* of their market because I, like most other DC users. wouldnt buy it.

 

It might surprise you but most people are not interested in all the latest bells and whistles and just because something can be done doesnt mean it should be done.

 

* I am not sure of the percentage of DC users compared to DCC users, then of course we split the DCC users into basic, sound, all singing/all dancing, and it would really only be that last lot interested.

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3 hours ago, Rob F said:

Would it be true to say that any sort of speed related tilt system would be just about impossible in OO?

 

I'm sure that if you throw enough money at something it would be possible. I'm imagining some sort of electronic actuators operated by an on-board computer that takes into account the curvature of the train, speed and phase of the moon.

 

Adding this would multiple the cost of the set many times, but if you really want it, I'm sure Hornby could oblige for a price. The rest of us will just enjoy the tilting train as it comes, no matter if it's not perfect. Let's face it, most APT's will run without overhead and there's only one prototypical example of that.

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2 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Because they would lose at least 25%* of their market because I, like most other DC users. wouldnt buy it.

 

It might surprise you but most people are not interested in all the latest bells and whistles and just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

 

I can understand your point of view, but I would at least like the space for chips and speakers, and full lighting is the minimum for most people these days I suspect.  I strongly suspect there is no hope for a servo operated pantograph, but at least I'd like on which can be posed.

 

If you don't ask you don't get.

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I appreciate that as a DC dinosaur (apparently a dying breed according to some) there will be certain things on new models I wont be using (servo pans on the 90 etc) and accept that, but to take a high value model and then add so much 'stuff' to it that you end up with a market of about 200 people who want it, but only 5 can afford it is a certain way of going out of business.

 

New Hornby seem to be listening to ALL their intended customers so they can get maximum return on virtually all their products which has to be a good thing for them and us.

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Is full lighting (front rear) too much to ask.  And the ability to add the other stuff if you want it.  We're way behind HO in all of this.   What I don't want is no space for speakers and chips, rubbish wired in chips, and poor pantographs like the 86 and 92 and some others had.

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7 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

Is full lighting (front rear) too much to ask.  And the ability to add the other stuff if you want it.  We're way behind HO in all of this.   What I don't want is no space for speakers and chips, rubbish wired in chips, and poor pantographs like the 86 and 92 and some others had.

Full (switchable) end lighting should be a minimum (I will concede that one ;)), but interior lighting not so much because unless its dark you cant really see the interior lights on trains anyway unless they are unprototypically bright to the extent they could be used to torture people.

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2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

The power car is in the middle for a start, but you may need some simple electrical connection for the end lighting.

I’d imagine to make the couplings simple they would do something similar to the HST’s. Means it would require 3 decoders but I think it’s a better alternative to an awkward electrical coupling system. 

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Just now, Hilux5972 said:

I’d imagine to make the couplings simple they would do something similar to the HST’s. Means it would require 3 decoders but I think it’s a better alternative to an awkward electrical coupling system. 

 

My old Hornby 7 car APT has 3 chips (version 3.5) but works great with the Heljan 26/27/33 chassis modification

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32 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

My old Hornby 7 car APT has 3 chips (version 3.5) but works great with the Heljan 26/27/33 chassis modification

Mine only has a single decoder in the NDM, it only ever runs with one end leading so the headlights are permanently on in that car, and tail lights permanently on the rear.

It does have additional pick ups on the second NDM and a pacer coupling between the two for power.

 

Andi

 

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1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Full (switchable) end lighting should be a minimum (I will concede that one ;)), but interior lighting not so much because unless its dark you cant really see the interior lights on trains anyway unless they are unprototypically bright to the extent they could be used to torture people.

& as much as I like it, interior lights are way too bright in Rapido's APT-E.

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I've been digging around in some old magazines over the weekend, and I've located the formation of the first press run APT-P on 3 October 1980 between Euston and Crewe. This formation was the first to have the Mk3 tilt package and the set was heavily used in the test runs around this time. It also was the first to have the black 'mask' fronts. The formation was:

 

48105-48203-48401-48304-48505-48605-49004-49002-48606-48504-48306-48403-48205-48106

 

I think this was one of the very few times that the full 14-car set was used in public service, the others being the infamous 'booze cruise' of 7 December 1981 and the following attempted Wednesday and Friday runs which were curtailed mid-journey.

 

In my own sightings and published reports, I've yet to find a formation where full matching sets were used - I'm wondered whether it ever actually happened.

 

 

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Thank you for this!I remember a copy of Railnews,from November 1980,that had a pull-out special on the APT that ran to about 8 pages,and had diagrams of full trains.My Uncle bought me it home from where he worked as a fitter at Finsbury Park about 2 days after I bought the Hornby set.I wish I knew what happened to it.

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Having received my catalouge this morning; I can confirm it is no more use at all in working out exact vehicle numbers in each set.

 

The best info we have (because the catalouge doesn't even make this clear) is that the 7 car set is essentially a 5 car set with the addition of a NDM and APT-U vehicles

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I've had a read through this thread but couldn't find the answer, so can anyone shed any light on the development vehicle they are making as a stand alone car? I have seen a pic online of the coach but would like to know if it will have conventional couplings or special APT couplings on each end.

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1 hour ago, Dan Griffin said:

I've had a read through this thread but couldn't find the answer, so can anyone shed any light on the development vehicle they are making as a stand alone car? I have seen a pic online of the coach but would like to know if it will have conventional couplings or special APT couplings on each end.

 

I dont think there's been any mention of any couplings within the APT

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15 hours ago, stovepipe said:

I've been digging around in some old magazines over the weekend, and I've located the formation of the first press run APT-P on 3 October 1980 between Euston and Crewe. This formation was the first to have the Mk3 tilt package and the set was heavily used in the test runs around this time. It also was the first to have the black 'mask' fronts. The formation was:

 

48105-48203-48401-48304-48505-48605-49004-49002-48606-48504-48306-48403-48205-48106

 

I think this was one of the very few times that the full 14-car set was used in public service, the others being the infamous 'booze cruise' of 7 December 1981 and the following attempted Wednesday and Friday runs which were curtailed mid-journey.

 

In my own sightings and published reports, I've yet to find a formation where full matching sets were used - I'm wondered whether it ever actually happened.

 

 

So that formation is pretty much the same that is shown on the 'Side profile' partway down the APT Wikipedia page (View will scroll along and enlarge too).

 

T-T

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_370

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