woodenhead Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said: Heresy on 3 counts. Heresy by word, heresy by deed, heresy by thought, heresy by action, 4 counts. APT was designed by aircraft engineers. Who knows what they prioritised in the design process? APT-E was, was it not BR who turned it into the P - it has all the styling of BR whereas the E looked very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Just now, woodenhead said: APT-E was, was it not BR who turned it into the P - it has all the styling of BR whereas the E looked very different. I thought they both were. I'm not sure about that though. Maybe Kit (Mr Tilt) will know, although he left before APT-P, but I've not seen him on here for a while. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: APT was designed by aircraft engineers. Who knows what they prioritised in the design process? I wonder if those same engineers hung around long enough after the cancellation of the APT to inflict aircraft style seating on the HST coach 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Haha... I've only gone and found some TARTAN PAINT, apparently it comes in two versions, a 1st Class Paint and 2nd Class Paint... just reading back on past posts, I thought I have Tin of Tartan in my shed, I also have one in my wardrobe but that is a different subject altogether... Regards Jamie Edited January 23, 2020 by 7APT7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: 2012?? I like that idea of the class 91 "might have been" train. Hi Colin oops stuck in the past enjoying the APT days, I meant 2021, sorry and well spotted... lol Yes, The buffet Car would be nice I just need to see someone adapt the the New Coach when it comes out, either that or slap a MK4 Buffet coach slightly off-centre (as my TRBS) in my Rake of 8 or so of the APT-P Ex-TS Sc48204 aka 977527... I think my Class 89 would be nice to use as it was a type of test train for the Class 90/91 but dont think the class 89 was ever experimental Loco... was it... Hmmm That's a point, I wounder if the Ex-TS coach (APT-U) by Hornby will be NEM socket to enable to link it to other Hornby rolling stock or will it be like the NDM APT-P Centre Power Cars have or the TBF at the One end joining the NDM Coach connection, that will be interesting to see what type of connection the Ex-TU will have... Hmmm I hope Hornby totally Re-Tool the Connection rods between the TBF and NDM Coaches if you ran the Power car on its own the Rod would ping off or snap in two as it got trapped between the sleepers, I'v had to replace a couple of my own APT Bogies sets because of that, now I use a elastic band to hold the rod up towards the roof of the NDM Coach, this happened more so when fitting the DCC Chip in to my APT and happened while testing if all was ok... did anyone else ever have this issue or was that just me...? lol I was like....why god, WHY...!?! lol haha Regards Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, royaloak said: The first question has to be why would they? That might be my fault. I did write a post speculating that the extra coaches they are producing now might be able to be used to extend the original APT-P five coach set. But it was pure guesswork 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, 7APT7 said: I think my Class 89 would be nice to use as it was a type of test train for the Class 90/91 but don't think the class 89 was ever experimental Loco... was it... Hmmm I think it was... The class 89 was prototype ECMLL traction before the spec changed. You probably knew this. It was completed in 1986.. about 2 years before HST DVTs were converted. So what did it do for this time? I don't believe it ever ran in service on the WCML. I remember seeing photos of it around Crewe so I think it ran test trains on the northern WCML. This would make sense because I think it was running before ECML electrification had been completed. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: I think it was... The class 89 was prototype ECMLL traction before the spec changed. You probably knew this. It was completed in 1986.. about 2 years before HST DVTs were converted. So what did it do for this time? I don't believe it ever ran in service on the WCML. I remember seeing photos of it around Crewe so I think it ran test trains on the northern WCML. This would make sense because I think it was running before ECML electrification had been completed. Hi Pete the Elaner Yes, I recall seeing it at Crewe in the days of my early teens and I'd be dragged out with my Bro & Sister with my Dad to stand all day in the cold playing on those Blue Mail Trucks with the odd Red One which I'd spend most of my time linking them together, then being told off by some staff guard, Er the good old days hey... I do only ever remember seeing the class 89 in the InterCity Livery and never in any RTC Livery in any form which is why I said I didn't think it was a test loco or if it started out life as one, then I only remember seeing as a normal InterCity Livery loco matching the InterCity coaches at the time, it was that and in GNER Livery who then ran it in to the ground, sadly. Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, Vistisen said: That might be my fault. I did write a post speculating that the extra coaches they are producing now might be able to be used to extend the original APT-P five coach set. But it was pure guesswork Hi Vistisen I remember speaking to Simon aka Mr Hornby at the Hartlepool MRC show back in 2011 and 2012, I was exhibiting for two years and I said about the APT back then and Simon said the plans were already on the table to produce another two extra coaches, I wish now i'd have asked what two was planned, I would like to think it was the TRBS and One of the others TU / TS / TF, but then axed the Real APT a few weeks after and Hornby then cancelled the two extra coaches and to still go ahead with the 5-Car Train Set (Yellow Fronted) and the 5-Car Train Pack (Black Fronted) Only. How much work and money would Simon have saved modellers from having to "Cut & Shut" Four APT coaches to make the Two we wanted on our APT Rake on our layouts hey... sacrilege to the extreme, to buy Four Extra coaches and come out with Two... You Mad lol haha But It obviously not just me that use to tell him my wish lists, I guess Simon aka Mr Hornby must get it everyday at shows from one person or another if happen to get into a conversation with Simon about why not make this or make that for the next year release... He must be glad to get home away from it all when it's your job lol ... Great guy to talk to and a wealth of knowledge on ever Era you talk about, you can tell he as done his home work, he's just to secretive if you ask about whats due out, you ask till the cows come home, I tried bribing him £50 as I was always told money talks, I'm not so sure with Simon, and he as a great Poker Face, you can say that to his face, I did... apart from actually poking Him in His Face lol haha (He's on to much money to tell you anything, was my summery of future releases, I think it was a matter of... I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you... lol He could be the next ManU manager for all we know haha Now that would be another great SHOCK to pull out the bag Simon lol...), even though we would all LOVE to be in His shoes to say what we will have on the drawing board next... PS: I'm not a footy man in anyway when I refer to ManU, other football teams are available, and in the words of Dell Boy, (Only Fools and Horses) "Are you a Legs Man Dell... No, I'm a Naval Man"...! You cant get not better humour than Only Fools and Horses. Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Hi All Just a Comparisons of DJM 3D Printing samples VS Hornby 3D Printing samples Hornby 3D Version ABOVE Vs DJ Models 3D Printed APT-P Model BELOW Enjoy and dribble or Enjoy and cry... Hmmm Regards Jamie Edited January 23, 2020 by 7APT7 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Is the nose cone a separate part on the Hornby 3D print? The colour looks slightly different and it looks more than just a 'seam' in a single piece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 hours ago, GordonC said: Is the nose cone a separate part on the Hornby 3D print? The colour looks slightly different and it looks more than just a 'seam' in a single piece Hi GordonC It looks that way, I guess the body will pull apart similar to how the current one will, but I do hope the nose will be able to lift up to reveal the Buffer beam etc. Regards Jamie 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjmitchell Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) I’m gutted it didn’t work out with DJM but pleased Hornby are putting this out. Have to say, it doesn’t look anywhere near the standard DJM was targeting though. Why is the UK OO market so far behind the continental HO? Edited January 24, 2020 by willjmitchell error 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, willjmitchell said: Have to say, it doesn’t look anywhere near the standard DJM was targeting though. Why is the UK OO market so far behind the continental HO? Sadly you only need to read back in this thread, there are a lot of modellers who are happy with only a little lighting, 8 pins instead of 21, no sound and no provision for it, despite the likely small additional costs of providing for these features, even if some don't use them! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, willjmitchell said: Why is the UK OO market so far behind the continental HO? It isn’t behind but it is slightly different, the focus varies around the world. In Japan dcc ready is still often relying on replacing the whole circuit board rather than just dropping in a chip. The US market is pretty similar to the UK with retro tin models, play style and super detail models with varying degrees of dcc ready and sound. Europe is also similar with many manufacturers having basic railroad style ranges alongside superdetail ones. You can have video cameras in some locos, opening coach doors but pretty much everything else is available on UK rtr stock. Full lighting, sound, detail etch plates, easy drop in decoders etc just not on every model. I have a super model from Brawa but it had no instructions as to where they'd hidden the socket or even how to get off the body to get to it!! You can buy a basic ex Lima 66, a well detailed Bachmann one and a superdetail Hattons one now. That applies to the Terrier too. These features may not be available on all models but that’s the same on the Continent too! I’d put the best models from Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol and Rapido up against Roco, Liliput, Marklin, Athearn Genesis, Kato, Tillig, Brawa and Piko. (Most of those made in the same source country too). By the time you add all the options there’s very little difference in quality or price on comparable ranges. Hornby, Piko, Tillig, Marklin and several US producers have their own ‘superdetail’ and less fragile ‘operators’ ranges just different names for them. All they’ve done with a lot of older spec models is group them into new sub brand headings based on features and then add new models into those, often a more basic version like Hornby have done with Railroad. Piko have created five. Edited January 25, 2020 by PaulRhB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: Sadly you only need to read back in this thread, there are a lot of modellers who are happy with only a little lighting, 8 pins instead of 21, no sound and no provision for it, despite the likely small additional costs of providing for these features, even if some don't use them! 8 pin sockets are still the most common in the US and try and find a 21pin or Next18 on a Kato model Most US diesel chassis are virtually indistinguishable from the UK designs in sound or dcc accommodation even in recent designs unless they tooled a sound version too. It’s getting better but a lot of models are still using chassis from 30+ years ago too. An Athearn RTR loco might have a stunning updated bodyshell with assembled plastic handrails and a modern motor but many have the same chassis as the ‘blue box’ version of the late 80’s with a cast block and stamped metal contacts and no sign of a dcc socket or speaker enclosure. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) On 23/01/2020 at 20:57, 7APT7 said: Hi All Just a Comparisons of DJM 3D Printing samples VS Hornby 3D Printing samples Hornby 3D Version ABOVE Vs DJ Models 3D Printed APT-P Model BELOW Enjoy and dribble or Enjoy and cry... Hmmm Regards Jamie It has to be said that comparing the two I do find the bodyside-length join and nose join on the Hornby sample a little unsightly, to say the least. Let's hope that's merely a consequence of this being an early print...? The DJM version appears to capture the streamlined/aircraft-like appearance more pleasingly perhaps too... Still, early days etc... cheers Al Edited January 25, 2020 by YesTor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, willjmitchell said: I’m gutted it didn’t work out with DJM but pleased Hornby are putting this out. Have to say, it doesn’t look anywhere near the standard DJM was targeting though. Why is the UK OO market so far behind the continental HO? Just remeber, with the other company, there was always a habit of announcing lots of features trying to be the "wow manufacturer", nothing had materialized. Whatever locos did make it through (of which only one was truly his design), all had quite a few faults. So take all that with a pinch of salt. Remember Hornby is a company that caters to a wider market. DJM was aiming at exclusively the higer end of the market. Also note that you're comparing 3D prints that were made to do 2 different things, whilst the DJM APT-P 3D print was a high-resolution one to show-off the detail, Hornby uses 3D prints of a lower resolution just to check tolerances of the major parts that fit together. Details are far easier to see on a high-resolution 3D print that has a coat of matte-grey primer than on a model 3D printed on a lower-resolution 3D print that's shiny. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: Sadly you only need to read back in this thread, there are a lot of modellers who are happy with only a little lighting, 8 pins instead of 21, no sound and no provision for it, despite the likely small additional costs of providing for these features, even if some don't use them! Also remember that rmweb represents a very small part of the hobby, that "some" you refer to is actually quite a large number of people. You only have to look at facebook comments. There's still people in this hobby who don't even know that DCC exists. Also remember that DCC may not be a huge expense for a manufacturer, but for the end customers it is. For a manufacturer to update a model from 8-pin to 21-pin, it will require a little bit of money to adjust a lot of things inside. DCC on a whole is expensive for customers, DCC chips (even 8-pin ones) are not all that cheap, especially if you want quality, DCC controllers aren' cheap, so DCC as is isn't something people readily get into, especially if they've started off decades ago. 8-pin DCC sockets aren't a bad thing you know? It's just not what's currently the trend. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, YesTor said: It has to be said that comparing the two I do find the bodyside-length join and nose join on the Hornby sample a little unsightly, to say the least. Let's hope that's merely a consequence of this being an early print...? The DJM version appears to capture the streamlined/aircraft-like appearance more pleasingly perhaps too... Still, early days etc... cheers Al If Hornby was to do what DJM did and 3D print the body as a single piece, you won't see those lines. As I've mentioned before, the 3D prints Hornby use are to check tolerances, not to show off details. The Hornby APT-P power-car body (leading car?) driving trailer is made up of 3 major parts - upper body shell, lower body shell and nose cone. All these 3 parts would've been 3D printed at different orientations and they also have the tendancy to warp. Take the 3D print lightly. The injection moulded parts will have crisp edges and will not warp. Edited January 25, 2020 by MGR Hooper! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 I presume you mean the driving trailer and not the power car. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 56 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: I presume you mean the driving trailer and not the power car. Yes, wasn't so sure hence why I put leading car in brackets. Not much of an EMU, DMU geek as you can see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 Don't worry MGR. The APT-P was not typical in that the power cars were in the middle of the train instead of either end which is more normal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2020 It’s quite bizarre the way some people are comparing the Hornby model to DJM . One has got a fairly good chance of appearing while I never thought the other one ever would . So what you are doing is comparing what I think will be a well thought out commercial model with vapourware. It was never real! Hornby will get the spec right for bulk of users . Yes it would be good if there was the ability to have internal lighting for folk who want it and it would be good to make it as DCC compatible as possible . I sense there is a split here with DCC modellers requesting ever more sophisticated electronics which the majority of the market just wont use . So , after the initial euphoria of DJM announcing the APT initially in N then OO, then in various different lengths , then with /without blackhood , I came to the conclusion this wasn’t exactly well thought out, so I bought an old Hornby one second hand . I’m now looking to replace this one . Sorry I want much cheapness as there’s lots of other models I want too , not a huge price tag with features I’ll never use. . 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2020 Even if DJ version would have been better, there is an old saying "half a loaf is better than no bread" The DJM version is the "no bread" option. Given Hornby's track record I'm sure their 2020 APT will be a very good model which will suit most in the hobby. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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