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Hornby APT (2020 tooling)


PaulRhB
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7 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Slightly frustrating because I wanted the 14 coach set with black window surrounds & would assume that a 2nd NDM would be an advantage.

That's a slightly odd assumption to make..that those wanting to model the 14 car set will stat with the smaller one.

Agreed, and if I'm correct, the livery of the 7 car set, with black window surrounds, is more suited to the introduction of the apt to timetabled service, where 14 cars did more frequently operate. As a further note of warning, I just attempted to order the extra NDM R 3948 from Rails, where I've pre ordered my other APT set and coaches, but cannot as their pre orders have exceeded their allocation for the powered NDM

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5 minutes ago, GordonC said:

Odd that they're tooling up the NDM as both motorised and unmotorised versions - when the unmotored one is only going in the 7 car set

It may be cost effective just to tool up the one NDM and only fit the motor and gears in the powered one.  

 

I think Rapido stated that the cost of the power train in a model is minimal

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5 minutes ago, GordonC said:

Odd that they're tooling up the NDM as both motorised and unmotorised versions - when the unmotored one is only going in the 7 car set

I'm assuming that most of the components will be the same, but the unmotorized version will be without motor and drive shafts, and perhaps no bogie intermediate gears and with reduced weight, that way they can use the body, chassis and bogie castings the same as for the motorised version.

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23 minutes ago, rembrow said:

Agreed, and if I'm correct, the livery of the 7 car set, with black window surrounds, is more suited to the introduction of the apt to timetabled service, where 14 cars did more frequently operate. As a further note of warning, I just attempted to order the extra NDM R 3948 from Rails, where I've pre ordered my other APT set and coaches, but cannot as their pre orders have exceeded their allocation for the powered NDM

With the model this far away, that is completely ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, rembrow said:

I've just had a reply from Hornby about the queries I raised on 9th January. The makeup of the 5 car and 7 car sets was confirmed as already advised in the late January Engine Shed.

Other than what I've read on here, I have still not seen it confirmed which set has the black windows & this has put me off from pre-ordering anything.

I have not seen these details from Hornby or details on a retailer's web site.

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38 minutes ago, Half-full said:

It may be cost effective just to tool up the one NDM and only fit the motor and gears in the powered one.  

 

I think Rapido stated that the cost of the power train in a model is minimal

So no great cost in having it powered then!

 

It seems a penny pinching idea by Hornby not to have 2 NDMs in the 7 coach set while offering all the additional coaches to make it up to a 14 coach set in the guise in which it was in passenger service (black windscreen surround).

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1 hour ago, royaloak said:

So no great cost in having it powered then!

 

It seems a penny pinching idea by Hornby not to have 2 NDMs in the 7 coach set while offering all the additional coaches to make it up to a 14 coach set in the guise in which it was in passenger service (black windscreen surround).

 

I'd happily pay the extra to get 2 motored NDMs with the black front and dont really want to pay an extra £100 for something that would cost a few pounds to be a full power car

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48 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I'd happily pay the extra to get 2 motored NDMs with the black front and dont really want to pay an extra £100 for something that would cost a few pounds to be a full power car

I worked out earlier in this thread that the retail price difference between a motorised and unmotorised NDM was about £58. This was based on the discounted retail price of unmotorised APT coaches being £40.50, and the motorised NDM AT £99. So the 7 car set would be about £58-£59 extra if there were two motorised NDMs. It was this lower than expected retail price of the 7 car set that got me asking if one of the NDMs was unmotorised

Edited by rembrow
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So if we have ordered the 7 coach set and all the extension cars how do we upgrade to twin power? Does it need twin motors? If so it seemed frankly daft to offer the coaches if it can’t pull them! Do we really need to order another power car and throw away the body and unmotored chassis as I can’t see much call for it! 
Sorry but this should be clearer or Hornby are going to have a lot of complaints when people invest several hundred pounds in a full set if it won’t move itself. 

Edited by PaulRhB
To clarify Hornby rather than Paul I
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40 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

@Islesy So if we have ordered the 7 coach set and all the extension cars how do we upgrade to twin power? Does it need twin motors? If so it seemed frankly daft to offer the coaches if it can’t pull them! Do we really need to order another power car and throw away the body and unmotored chassis as I can’t see much call for it! 
Sorry but this should be clearer or you’re going to have a lot of complaints when people invest several hundred pounds in a full set and it won’t move itself. 

 

Who said one power car would not be able to pull 13 coaches?

 

Though two sounds better.

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7 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

So if we have ordered the 7 coach set and all the extension cars how do we upgrade to twin power? Does it need twin motors? If so it seemed frankly daft to offer the coaches if it can’t pull them! 

 

7 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Who said one power car would not be able to pull 13 coaches?

 

Hence why I asked that too ;) 

Edited by PaulRhB
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5 hours ago, royaloak said:

So no great cost in having it powered then!

 

It seems a penny pinching idea by Hornby not to have 2 NDMs in the 7 coach set while offering all the additional coaches to make it up to a 14 coach set in the guise in which it was in passenger service (black windscreen surround).

I wouldn't say it was penny pinching, maybe a sensible move based on the assumption that not everyone that buys a 7-car set will extend it to the full length, and maybe the motor/gear train being used is enough to power a full rake?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Who said one power car would not be able to pull 13 coaches?

 

That's it then, the nose is coming off... (or Up and adapted), for a Class 37/47 to tow my APT round the layout... lol

 

Regards

Jamie

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Well the 1979 book arrived....

and interesting very little information....

 

48101-48107 DTS (included the Spare)

48201-48212 TS

48401-48406 TRSB

48501-48506 TF

48601-48607 TBF (included the Spare)

49001-49006 N-DM

 

Interesting TS 482 Numbers had 12 in the pipeline...

 

828638349_BritishRal1979MotivePowerCombinedVolume(Front)RMMod1.jpg.347693785c0b9bd2647d128f9f9e07fc.jpg

 

187767148_BritishRal1979MotivePowerCombinedVolumeP133Class370APTRMMod1.jpg.32f77fdbe5c37a3b42a8d5b445ff921b.jpg

 

 

While the 1980 book says..

 

1672720068_BritishRal1980CoachingStockRCTSFrontCoverRMMod1.jpg.77775d9d60a2d959ccadb097b949570a.jpg

 

917555929_BritishRal1980CoachingStockRCTSP010Class370APT-PRMMod1.jpg.459b0efc054a41c9149fb0e0e96e9d57.jpg

 

Regards

Jamie

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Knocked this table out which might be of help to those still confused about the add-on packs. The only outstanding (minor) piece of information yet to come from Hornby is which of the NDMs in R3874 will be the powered one, and which will be the 'dummy'. The 15-car APT is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but it's what you'd get if you bought in line with the catalogue's advice... (I suspect they intend that you can knock out vehicles as you wish, to create various testing and other formations)

 

 

APT MLTH chart v2.png

 

Hornby’s catalogue description and RRP

 

5-car set - can be extended up to 14-car set

 

R3873 5-car pack.  Sets 370 003 and 370 004 [yellow front] , £394.99 [5-car Pack. Set 370 003 comprising DTS Sc48103, TBF Sc48603 and NDM Sc49003 City of Derby, along with Set 370 004 comprising TBF Sc48604 and DTS Sc48104.]

R3948  Non-Driving Motor (NDM), 49004, £109.99

R40011  2-car TS Coach Pack, 48203 + 48204 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TS coaches to extend R3873 5-car Pack (Sets 370 003 and 370 004).

R40012  2-car TRBS Coach Pack, 48403 + 48404 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TRBS coaches to extend R3873 5-car Pack (Sets 370 003 and 370 004)

R40013  2-car TU Coach Pack, 48303 + 48304 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TU coaches to extend R3873 5-car Pack (Sets 370 003 and 370 004)

R40014 2-car TF Coach Pack, 48503 + 48504 [This coach pack includes the two TF coaches to extend R3873 5-car Pack (Sets 370 003 and 370 004)

 

7-car set - can be extended up to a (fictional) 15-car set, or the various shorter alternatives of the APT-D used for IC225 development

 

R3874  7-car pack.  Sets 370 001 and 370 002 [Black windows], £484.99 [7-car Pack. Set 370 001 comprising DTS Sc48101, TBF Sc48601, APT-U Test Coach 48204 (RDB977527) and NDM Sc49001, along with NDM Sc49002, TBF Sc48602 and DTS Sc48102 from Set 370 002]

R40011A  2-car TS Coach Pack, 48201 + 48202 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TS coaches to extend R3874 7-car Pack (Sets 370 001 and 370 002).

R40012A  2-car TRBS Coach Pack, 48401 + 48402 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TRBS coaches to extend R3874 7-car Pack (Sets 370 001 and 370 002)

R40013A  2-car TU Coach Pack, 48301 + 48302 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TU coaches to extend R3874 7-car Pack (Sets 370 001 and 370 002).

R40014A  2-car TF Coach Pack, 48501 + 48502 £89.99 [This coach pack includes the two TF coaches to extend R3874 7-car Pack (Sets 370 001 and 370 002).

R4970  Ex-TS Development Vehicle, Sc48204/977527 £39.99

 

Note: Hornby’s catalogue description isn’t helpful when it says the coach packs are “required in part to complete R3873 5-car Pack”, so I’ve changed it read “to extend” as this is what it means

 

 

 

Edited by Mel_H
Table and text amended to reflect the announcement by Hornby on 31/1/20
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2 hours ago, Mel_H said:

Hornby’s catalogue description and RRP

 

Am I correct in saying that the NEW Hornby APT-P in both 5-Car Sets and the 7-Car Sets are Train Packs ONLY and NOT A FULL TRAIN SET or will there be One of Each like the 1980's Original release with Oval Track, Controller and the [with Original Cardboard Tunnel],... The Older APT-P Sets... had the Yellow Fronted Set was a Train Set, where as the Black Fronted Set was a Train Pack Only... with No Oval Track, Controller or Cardboard Tunnel.

 

I have Four of the Original Cardboard Tunnel, that have the Cut Out Scissor Lines and where to glue etc., to make the Tunnel ... all flat packed in the APT-P boxes.

 

Regards

Jamie

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My apologies to Paul Isles as I thought he was here in the semi official capacity for these questions. 

I’ve asked Hornby direct following Rembrow’s post of their reply on the power cars. 
“Hornby

I’ve ordered the 7 car APT & coach packs to make a full set. I understand from Rmweb forum that it will only include 1 power car. Will this actually haul the full 14 coach set or will I need to motorise the dummy power car too? If we do need to motorise the second power car is there an option without buying another intended for the 5 car set only to get its chassis?
Thanks“

 

I’ll add their reply ;) 

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5 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Am I correct in saying that the NEW Hornby APT-P in both 5-Car Sets and the 7-Car Sets are Train Packs ONLY and NOT A FULL TRAIN SET or will there be One of Each like the 1980's Original release with Oval Track, Controller and the [with Original Cardboard Tunnel],... The Older APT-P Sets... had the Yellow Fronted Set was a Train Set, where as the Black Fronted Set was a Train Pack Only... with No Oval Track, Controller or Cardboard Tunnel.

 

I have Four of the Original Cardboard Tunnel, that have the Cut Out Scissor Lines and where to glue etc., to make the Tunnel ... all flat packed in the APT-P boxes.

 

Regards

Jamie

Hornby released details of the make up of both the 5 car and 7 car train packs in the Engine Shed on line magazine edition of 31 January. Being Train Packs they will only contain the train vehicles, they won't include track and controllers.

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/Hornby-2020-stephensons-rocket

 

They are:

Two APT train packs are being offered; R3873, a 5-car pack representing Set 370 003 with DTS Sc48103, TBF Sc48603 and NDM Sc49003 City of Derby, along with Set 370 004 comprising TBF Sc48604 and DTS Sc48104 and R3874, the 7-car Pack representing Set 370 001 with DTS Sc48101, TBF Sc48601, APT-U Test Coach 48204 (RDB977527) and NDM Sc49001, along with NDM Sc49002, TBF Sc48602 and DTS Sc48102 from Set 370 002.

Edited by rembrow
clarification
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8 hours ago, Mel_H said:

Knocked this table out which might be of help to those still confused about the add-on packs. As the contents of the 7-car pack haven't been advised by Hornby yet, it's subject to change. The 15-car APT is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but it's what you'd get if you bought in line with the catalogue's advice... (I suspect they intend that you can knock out vehicles as you wish)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hornby have announced the make up of the 7 car train pack and the 5 car train pack, in the 31 January edition of Engine Shed, extract below:

 

Two APT train packs are being offered; R3873, a 5-car pack representing Set 370 003 with DTS Sc48103, TBF Sc48603 and NDM Sc49003 City of Derby, along with Set 370 004 comprising TBF Sc48604 and DTS Sc48104 and R3874, the 7-car Pack representing Set 370 001 with DTS Sc48101, TBF Sc48601, APT-U Test Coach 48204 (RDB977527) and NDM Sc49001, along with NDM Sc49002, TBF Sc48602 and DTS Sc48102 from Set 370 002.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/Hornby-2020-stephensons-rocket

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6 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Am I correct in saying that the NEW Hornby APT-P in both 5-Car Sets and the 7-Car Sets are Train Packs ONLY and NOT A FULL TRAIN SET or will there be One of Each like the 1980's Original release with Oval Track, Controller and the [with Original Cardboard Tunnel],... The Older APT-P Sets... had the Yellow Fronted Set was a Train Set, where as the Black Fronted Set was a Train Pack Only... with No Oval Track, Controller or Cardboard Tunnel.

 

I have Four of the Original Cardboard Tunnel, that have the Cut Out Scissor Lines and where to glue etc., to make the Tunnel ... all flat packed in the APT-P boxes.

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Yes, simply a train pack NOT a train set. The prices mean that it's never going to be train set material.

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10 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Well the 1979 book arrived....

and interesting very little information....

 

48101-48107 DTS (included the Spare)

48201-48212 TS

48401-48406 TRSB

48501-48506 TF

48601-48607 TBF (included the Spare)

49001-49006 N-DM

 

Interesting TS 482 Numbers had 12 in the pipeline...

 

828638349_BritishRal1979MotivePowerCombinedVolume(Front)RMMod1.jpg.347693785c0b9bd2647d128f9f9e07fc.jpg

 

187767148_BritishRal1979MotivePowerCombinedVolumeP133Class370APTRMMod1.jpg.32f77fdbe5c37a3b42a8d5b445ff921b.jpg

 

 

While the 1980 book says..

 

1672720068_BritishRal1980CoachingStockRCTSFrontCoverRMMod1.jpg.77775d9d60a2d959ccadb097b949570a.jpg

 

917555929_BritishRal1980CoachingStockRCTSP010Class370APT-PRMMod1.jpg.459b0efc054a41c9149fb0e0e96e9d57.jpg

 

Regards

Jamie

 

It listed 12 Trailer Seconds but no Trailer Unclassifieds in the 4830x number range - so at some point the plan must have changed and the 12x TS became 6x TS and 6x TU

 

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1 hour ago, rembrow said:

Hornby have announced the make up of the 7 car train pack and the 5 car train pack, in the 31 January edition of Engine Shed, extract below:

 

Two APT train packs are being offered; R3873, a 5-car pack representing Set 370 003 with DTS Sc48103, TBF Sc48603 and NDM Sc49003 City of Derby, along with Set 370 004 comprising TBF Sc48604 and DTS Sc48104 and R3874, the 7-car Pack representing Set 370 001 with DTS Sc48101, TBF Sc48601, APT-U Test Coach 48204 (RDB977527) and NDM Sc49001, along with NDM Sc49002, TBF Sc48602 and DTS Sc48102 from Set 370 002.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/Hornby-2020-stephensons-rocket

 

Apologies!  I thought they had, but couldn't find it. Should have gone to Specsavers!

 

For clarity (and anyone looking at this thread later) I've corrected my table and text in the original post. Hopefully, it's now helpful

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