RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted February 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 I agree John Imagine if we were trying to keep track of BR Mk1 coaches. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted February 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 hours ago, John ks said: 7APT7 Sorry to do this but after all your hard work tracking down which coach numbers are in each set, it seems you missed one This pic is from Hornby's site It shows 370 007 leading a train with 6 coaches, at least 1NDM & who knows? Also the colour under the nose looks to be the same white as the stripe between the red & dark grey John That looks very like a 6+2+2 formation from the unadvertised public service phase in 1984. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Colin_McLeod said: I agree John Imagine if we were trying to keep track of BR Mk1 coaches. My brain hurts 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel_H Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 23 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi Mel_H Thanks for the insight Mel_H... I'd be interested to see what did actually run over those years, if the book is indeed incorrect... and the running numbers within each rake, while we can name some 14-Car Sets and every running number on a particulate rakes from certain published information. What about the running numbers of the other Sets...? What numbers were the other APT-P Rakes and there running numbers... I'd be interested to know more, if you can... I understand some APT Coaches may have been swapped around fairly regularly or remains out of service while maintenance etc gets carried out or even internally modified, to get the Tilt mechanism correct etc,. Regards Jamie I suspect that others on this thread will have information, or can provide it. From this collective a list of specific sets and dates seen could be compiled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, John ks said: 7APT7 Sorry to do this but after all your hard work tracking down which coach numbers are in each set, it seems you missed one This pic is from Hornby's site It shows 370 007 leading a train with 6 coaches, at least 1NDM & who knows? Hi John, unsure of the point you are trying to make to be honest with you mate. But, Thank You for your comment and input. The information about 370 007 is what is in the book (All 3 Books in fact, although these are wrong according to another post) as you can see from what I uploaded in above posts (370 007 which were built as a Spare DTS 48107, as was TBF 48607) the fact that they have used it probably more often out of all other Numbers, along with 370 005 or 006 on the rear for the most part, in photo's that state the rear Car-Numbers in some photo's. The fact that the Rakes I have put together in MY last post, I was merely trying to make a full rake of 14-cars (Just like Hornby have done) but I have tried to involve the book information along with the running numbers Hornby are releasing. Hornby may have showed that photo of "370 007 leading a train with 6 coaches, at least 1NDM & who knows?" (as you say) and may have released numbers that are possibly not in that rake in that Photo you refer to 370 007 etc,.... who know's.... as you have rightfully said. Personally, I am only interested in running a 14-Car sets as I know from that, all other possibilities will be possible and preferably what ran Prototypical, or at least try to run what is Prototypical. If I knew the numbers 6+2+2 formation, I would amend my list accordingly to include those formations to, even though Hornby only seem to put together the two 14-Car sets just like I have done (Which is why I am confused in what point are you trying to make) I have copied suit by using what is in the three books, along with what Hornby's 5 and 7 car sets are and which Hornby Twin Pack you need to have to enable a 14-car rake, and I was showing that based on Hornby;s Information and the nearest to a Prototypical rake you can run/use on your layout. If Hornby released the formation Pack you need to run a 6+2+2 formation, or I got the information from... a dare say it, a book, then I would have done the same thing, so I could add those accordingly to the List in the Last Post... I can see it as annoyed you in some way but how, and why, is not clear to me at all, therefore I will not upload any future book or books information, or state from any book or book as they appear to be incorrect, by a another post. I do apologies for the distress it as had on you. 22 hours ago, John ks said: Also the colour under the nose looks to be the same white as the stripe between the red & dark grey I don't quite understand where your last part of your comment comes into the equation that you have raised, with regards to the Colour white...! and the colour under the nose looks to be the same white as the stripe between the red & dark grey... (as you have said) You have thrown me altogether on this one John... but as you have raised it... I have uploaded 4 photos for you, Have I got it wrong..., (and I, also see the same Colour in the Post above, taken off Hornby's Website Photo aka 370 007) Firstly... I see the colour under the nose as the exact same colour as I see on the side profile on the bottom half of the APT-P where the Bogies are and up to the Red Line where you see the Running Number 48103 within the Red Line itself. Secondly... so you are saying... the part under the RED, you are saying, is WHITE below the RED Line, and the same WHITE in colour, as the WHITE LINE seen above the RED LINE, which continues up and over the Cab roof and Dark Grey in the Top Half which comes down to join the WHITE LINE...? If I am wrong then, I stand corrected and apologises for my mistake and Mistakes in advance of, but I beg to differ John, and I would be interested in what other people see in the attached photos, I would say that it maybe cleaner part of the APT-P or it's brighter due to the way the sunshine is hitting it, but it's still by no mean WHITE, and the same WHITE as the WHITE LINE. Photos, don't lye but apparently book do, .... Is this a case of... do you see the Sea as Green, OR do you see the Sea as Blue... or maybe... That famous dress colour in the press/news a few years ago, do you see White and Gold OR Blue and Black Dress... Regards Jamie Edited February 22, 2020 by 7APT7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi John, unsure of the point you are trying to make to be honest with you mate. But, Thank You for your comment and input. The information about 370 007 is what is in the book (All 3 Books in fact, although these are wrong according to another post) as you can see from what I uploaded in above posts (370 007 which were built as a Spare DTS 48107, as was TBF 48607) the fact that they have used it probably more often out of all other Numbers, along with 370 005 or 006 on the rear for the most part, in photo's that state the rear Car-Numbers in some photo's. The fact that the Rakes I have put together in MY last post, I was merely trying to make a full rake of 14-cars (Just like Hornby have done) but I have tried to involve the book information along with the running numbers Hornby are releasing. Hornby may have showed that photo of "370 007 leading a train with 6 coaches, at least 1NDM & who knows?" (as you say) and may have released numbers that are possibly not in that rake in that Photo you refer to 370 007 etc,.... who know's.... as you have rightfully said. Personally, I am only interested in running a 14-Car sets as I know from that, all other possibilities will be possible and preferably what ran Prototypical, or at least try to run what is Prototypical. If I knew the numbers 6+2+2 formation, I would amend my list accordingly to include those formations to, even though Hornby only seem to put together the two 14-Car sets just like I have done (Which is why I am confused in what point are you trying to make) I have copied suit by using what is in the three books, along with what Hornby's 5 and 7 car sets are and which Hornby Twin Pack you need to have to enable a 14-car rake, and I was showing that based on Hornby;s Information and the nearest to a Prototypical rake you can run/use on your layout. If Hornby released the formation Pack you need to run a 6+2+2 formation, or I got the information from... a dare say it, a book, then I would have done the same thing, so I could add those accordingly to the List in the Last Post... I can see it as annoyed you in some way but how, and why, is not clear to me at all, therefore I will not upload any future book or books information, or state from any book or book as they appear to be incorrect, by a another post. I do apologies for the distress it as had on you. I don't quite understand where your last part of your comment comes into the equation that you have raised, with regards to the Colour white...! and the colour under the nose looks to be the same white as the stripe between the red & dark grey... (as you have said) You have thrown me altogether on this one John... but as you have raised it... I have uploaded 4 photos for you, Have I got it wrong..., (and I, also see the same Colour in the Post above, taken off Hornby's Website Photo aka 370 007) Firstly... I see the colour under the nose as the exact same colour as I see on the side profile on the bottom half of the APT-P where the Bogies are and up to the Red Line where you see the Running Number 48103 within the Red Line itself. Secondly... so you are saying... the part under the RED, you are saying, is WHITE below the RED Line, and the same WHITE in colour, as the WHITE LINE seen above the RED LINE, which continues up and over the Cab roof and Dark Grey in the Top Half which comes down to join the WHITE LINE...? If I am wrong then, I stand corrected and apologises for my mistake and Mistakes in advance of, but I beg to differ John, and I would be interested in what other people see in the attached photos, I would say that it maybe cleaner part of the APT-P or it's brighter due to the way the sunshine is hitting it, but it's still by no mean WHITE, and the same WHITE as the WHITE LINE. Photos, don't lye but apparently book do, .... Is this a case of... do you see the Sea as Green, OR do you see the Sea as Blue... or maybe... That famous dress colour in the press/news a few years ago, do you see White and Gold OR Blue and Black Dress... Regards Jamie Cracking photos and useful tables! I’d stop worrying about what others think and enjoy the information you have compiled from research. I’ve looked at the data and decided the simplest thing to do is buy both packs and all the coaches, then I can mix/match as I fancy! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Jamie Regarding the colour change on 370 007 I added that to highlight differences in livery from one unit to another, the pic should explain what I see. The set from Crewe looks to have the same colour below the red line & it wraps around the nose & has a fine red line wrapping around the nose I hope you don't mind using your photo from Crewe There is a slight possibility that I might be in that photo, I was the only Aussie there on that fateful day arranged by he who shall not be named On 21/02/2020 at 15:59, John ks said: Sorry to do this but after all your hard work tracking down which coach numbers are in each set, it seems you missed one I apologise if this statement came across as a bit harsh, it was not my intention. 3 hours ago, 7APT7 said: therefore I will not upload any future book or books information, or state from any book or book as they appear to be incorrect, by a another post. I do apologies for the distress it as had on you. Please continue to upload any information you feel is relevant John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Does anyone have any photos of 003 actually running on the mainline with the front end painted as per the photo of it above in the Crewe Heritage Centre? It may be how it's been painted when there, and may not be as it was when in service. Edited February 22, 2020 by Dixie Dean 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: Does anyone have any photos of 003 actually running on the mainline with the front end painted as per the photo of it above in the Crewe Heritage Centre? Hi Dixie Dean Hope these will help you, help, found these on Internet and not my own contents. The British Rail (2nd Photo) seems to be an advert of some kind by BR themselves. All should be 370 003. And an Un-Numbered, although it would be interesting to see what the 481## is on the side which as the number. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Thanks Jamie for that wide range of options! Any livery you like then (well almost) but not red infilled "APT" on the front! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, John ks said: Jamie Regarding the colour change on 370 007 I added that to highlight differences in livery from one unit to another, the pic should explain what I see. The set from Crewe looks to have the same colour below the red line & it wraps around the nose & has a fine red line wrapping around the nose I hope you don't mind using your photo from Crewe There is a slight possibility that I might be in that photo, I was the only Aussie there on that fateful day arranged by he who shall not be named I apologise if this statement came across as a bit harsh, it was not my intention. Please continue to upload any information you feel is relevant John Hi John... whatever you say mate... let's move on hey... The Blue... I still say, that's the way the light is reflecting on that part of the APT as there is a very slight curve at that point as it comes down to the Nose Front, but is diffidently not Pure White like we see on the White Line. Evan if you were to walk past the train on the station you wouldn't really notice the change, how it been pointed out from a far and photos, taken from a distance, it's the way the Camera captures the light, so it look different, the same is true on the Virgin Pendolino, the Red reflex different shades of Red as the front of the cab rounds off, but it's still the same Virgin Red. I think the Curve can be seen slightly on the photo I uploaded with the Nose Cone lifted up to reveal the Buffer Beam, etc... is very slight but its there. The Green... I really can't answer, (Apart from see Blue, above) but again I still think it is due to the slight curve on the body, and the way light reflex differently due to the slight angle of the bodywork, as to how it impacts on how we see it... interesting as 370 007 is fairly dirty, it's noticeable the main dirt starts at the bogies, at high speed the only moving parts to throw up any sort dirt are the wheels so it logical that dirt as an impact on where the bulk of the dirt would build up the most, around the bogies.... but hey what do I know. Black... hey what do I know... we have spoke about this earlier in the Thread a few pages back. I don't think this was ansered as I didn't know the answer either. I would however... like to know what the time period of these different Logo types were added or changed and in which order came first, unless it was some kind of Livery Test Trial as to improvements to which Logo looked best as it was a whole new livery for BR InterCity... but like I said... what do I know. If the Cap Fits, then wear it, as the saying goes... According to some on here, with barely a sentence in length on both comments, is just unwanted negativity, but apparently we all should know the answers on this thread according to them, do people not just take a second to think what they write and the impact that can have, rather than ensuring positive comments on here along with respect for others, when it's on someone else's genuine comment for answers, if you are not prepared to answer a question, by leaving it to others on this thread as an answer, is sickening and just shouts out Troll and keyboard warrior to me... why comment at all, if you have nothing constructive to say towards any thread, in order to help and to improve the knowledge of others and while at the same time expanding someone else's knowledge for the better. This is exactly how trolls do start by getting away with the odd single sentence here and there throughout the RMWeb, when commenting negatively on other peoples comments... it's unwanted, uncalled for, and unnecessary, and an inconvenience to everyone having to read and having to put up with it, towards those who have asked a genuine question.... I ask myself, really... If you are going to come on here, then respect other peoples opinions, (Yes, we all have them, I'm quite aware of that) if you can't answer a question or not even be prepared to answer anywhere close to it with a positive thought going forward on the question raised, then don't leave a Post at all, leave it to those that do know the answers, or have the balls to say... I don't know that answer, sadly... It's a far better answer than that is what I would do, and what do I know... I stopped coming on the RMWeb a few years ago due to the constant negativity and unwanted comments by the few, or I came on very rarely. I know there are some decent people on here, I've met a fair few of them over my time. I come on here to gain knowledge or to help other to gain knowledge. we see enough negative stuff in the news everyday as it is, the last place should be on the love for the railways and Modelling. Rant over... Jamie 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 The Truth is, none of us really ever know just how much someone else is hurting on the inside. We could be standing right beside someone who is completely damaged and broken and we have no idea, whatsoever... Always BE Nice, Be Kind. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Interesting to note (thanks to Dixie Dean for asking for the 370 003 photo's) I just noticed on the Photo's of 370 003 above, did anyone spot the 481## numbers on the side, some are at the front near the Cab end, whilst others are near the other end towards the back of the coach... I wonder how many APT-P's had that format, was this another change to get the look right in some way... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, 7APT7 said: I stopped coming on the RMWeb a few years ago due to the constant negativity and unwanted comments by the few, or I came on very rarely. Glad you're still here and making a very positive contribution! Edited February 22, 2020 by Dixie Dean 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guarded Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Did it ever run with a gold front and the window band at the other end do we know? Edited February 22, 2020 by guarded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 22, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 hours ago, 7APT7 said: The British Rail (2nd Photo) seems to be an advert of some kind by BR themselves. This was a small A5 booklet on the APT, I have one somewhere but can’t find it at present. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT-P Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: This was a small A5 booklet on the APT, I have one somewhere but can’t find it at present. https://www.apt-p.com/DocTIBR.htm Rob 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 370 003 & 370 006 as seen at crewe Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 What once was and what now is, I'll be catching the new Pendolino next month I just hope its the new livery and not the ghostly white version or un-branded Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Old vs New Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Hi The Ex-TS No. 48204 Twin Bogie Coach aka MKIV (What would have been) and can also be seen in the bottom photo next to the NMD Centre Power car from when I last saw and spoke with Kit aka Mr APT at Crewe, his knowledge is beyond all compare... Hornby R4970 Ex-TS No. 48204 / 977527 Twin Bogies Jamie Edited February 23, 2020 by 7APT7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rhnrhn Posted February 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2020 Hi John Ks If you look at the cab roof in the photo you can see that the front end of it is reasonably clean where as further back it is quite dirty with a fairly pronounced looking tide mark (see black arrow in the left hand Image) If this tide mark is projected down the side of the cab it joins up with the border between the grey and the white that you identified (see dotted line in the right hand Image). Pure speculation this, but perhaps it is just that they only bothered regulary washing the very front of the Train (i.e. wIndscreen, quarter glasses, headlights etc), with the result that, in this view at least, the nose is a different colour? Regards 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guarded Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 10 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Old vs New Jamie Damn,it looks sad in this photo-it actually looks sad!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted February 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2020 11 hours ago, 7APT7 said: 370 003 & 370 006 as seen at crewe Jamie I'm not sure whether I pity Hornby or not, Basically what ever colours and linings they paint it the model, it will be both right and wrong until it is observed and compared to a particular photo. It's quantum modelling. I think they should call it the Schrõdinger edition. The packaging should be a sealed black box. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 7 hours ago, guarded said: Damn,it looks sad in this photo-it actually looks sad!! Yes, guarded... With those rain run marks, (it's as if her Mascara is running...lol) which gives the impression, it cries every time a Pendolino passes, as if to say... I WAS ONCE YOU AT ONE POINT IN MY LIFE, IT WAS ME THAT PUT YOU WHERE YOU ARE TODAY... I wonder every time the Pendolino passes the APT, it says..., CAN ALL PENDOLINO CARRIAGES, SHOW THERE APPRECIATION AS WE PASS SIR APT, IN MEMORY OFF & IN TRIBUTE OF WINNING THE TILT WAR... haha... lol Jamie 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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