7APT7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Hi All I View from within the Cab of the APT-P Right-hand Side of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Left-hand Side of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Central View of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Regards Jamie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2020 2 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi All I View from within the Cab of the APT-P Right-hand Side of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Left-hand Side of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Central View of the APT-P Cab 370 003 End... Regards Jamie looking at that driving layout, the only function the second man has to cover is the tea cup holder ? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 12 hours ago, rhnrhn said: Hi John Ks If you look at the cab roof in the photo you can see that the front end of it is reasonably clean where as further back it is quite dirty with a fairly pronounced looking tide mark (see black arrow in the left hand Image) If this tide mark is projected down the side of the cab it joins up with the border between the grey and the white that you identified (see dotted line in the right hand Image). Pure speculation this, but perhaps it is just that they only bothered regulary washing the very front of the Train (i.e. wIndscreen, quarter glasses, headlights etc), with the result that, in this view at least, the nose is a different colour? Regards Rhnrhn I went looking for pics to try to confirm that they are 2 different colours. I found 2 Pics of 004 yellow nose that at quick look seemed to confirm my view (2+1+3 & 2+1+? Possibly the same train at different times or places)) But these images had dirt on the roof like you described The transition between Grey & Fawn(or is it dusty grey) was not as distinct as on 007 On closer examination of 007 its starting to look as if what I am seeing as Fawn is dusty uncleaned grey As Fonzie might say "I was wro,wro,wron" Looks like your speculation is correct John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted February 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2020 11 hours ago, adb968008 said: looking at that driving layout, the only function the second man has to cover is the tea cup holder ? The second man was not required operationally at the time but was retained to keep the unions happy. He/she was basically a passenger hence the need for a tea cup holder OK, he may have had some duties. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Making tea for the driver. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, BernardTPM said: Making tea for the driver. Or steadying the cup should a tilt failure occur ! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 24, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said: The second man was not required operationally at the time but was retained to keep the unions happy. He/she was basically a passenger hence the need for a tea cup holder OK, he may have had some duties. Useful seat for the Pilotman though still during Single Line Working, that, driver instruction, route refreshing and driver managers assessing are the main reason most new locos still retain two seats in their design Edited February 24, 2020 by PaulRhB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT-P Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 See below two photo's from the day the APT-P arrived at CHC (15th June 1988) showing the nose end liveries carried by 48103 and 48106, when taken into preservation. Rob 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: The second man was not required operationally at the time but was retained to keep the unions happy. He/she was basically a passenger hence the need for a tea cup holder OK, he may have had some duties. 7 hours ago, BernardTPM said: Making tea for the driver. 19 hours ago, adb968008 said: looking at that driving layout, the only function the second man has to cover is the tea cup holder ? Hi All.. It as taken me till now to find the photo I was after... out my couple thousand plus photo's of each time I have visited Crewe Heritage Centre... I had to just sit and go through the Crewe Photos, I know I had saw it the photo in my vast collection of the APT-P, and it was from way back in January 2010. Well I can confirm that second man, had to cover more than just the Tea Cup Holder... PLUS... Boiling the Kettle Duties... Funny, out of all my visit's to the APT-P Including DJM Open Day, and several Crewe Open Days since, this is just an empty space now... but at least we know what went in there now... This is right behind the Second Seat, the Cab Door is to the Left Out and the Centre Door through to the main Seating Area is to the Right... Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 5 hours ago, APT-P said: See below two photo's from the day the APT-P arrived at CHC (15th June 1988) showing the nose end liveries carried by 48103 and 48106, when taken into preservation. Rob Hi Rob & All... Interesting... Rob, You have 370006 with ><InterCityAPT (My Photo show the opposite 370006 as no Thin Red line and Plain ><InterCityAPT) and Your 370003 as the Plain Black ><InterCityAPT (My Photo show the opposite 370003 as ><InterCityAPT taken in 2018). Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 370 003 (2018) 370 003 (2010) Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Hi John I came across this photo on the internet, not one of my photo's... This seems to have been cleaned just after the door to halfway along the Bogie frame opening... APT-P aka Rob... would you happen to know who it is by...? I have three names, I think all are the same person, but I cannot confirm this... On 23/02/2020 at 12:54, rhnrhn said: Hi John Ks If you look at the cab roof in the photo you can see that the front end of it is reasonably clean where as further back it is quite dirty with a fairly pronounced looking tide mark (see black arrow in the left hand Image) If this tide mark is projected down the side of the cab it joins up with the border between the grey and the white that you identified (see dotted line in the right hand Image). Pure speculation this, but perhaps it is just that they only bothered regulary washing the very front of the Train (i.e. windscreen, quarter glasses, headlights etc), with the result that, in this view at least, the nose is a different colour? Below... Is the same Photo as above but cut closer, to point out better... In this photo below, from Cab Door or just to the Left of the Cab door (by Red Square at the base) coming forwards to the Nose Front, that part is turning inwards very slightly and down towards to the APT Head Lamps, I've been searching for the right photo or Photos, so to try and explain, where the light on most APT photos seems to show the same, where I don't think its a change of colour, but certainly not the same White like we see in the White Line. it's the way the light changes the colour due to being set at a different angle... and every Photo's that are not taken by me, kind of shows you the same as what you have pointed out John... I agree with how "rhnrhn" explains it in part to... (as seen in the photo below) Can not be sure who the Photo is by as I've seen it several times and not sure who the Original is by Dave Concox or Maybe Cancox or David Hancox (or a combination of... sorry I can't be more specific...) I will modify this Post if I know the correct name. Thanks again... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) Hi I hope these photo show it clearer... john, The photo below, shows the point in which the from or this side of the Cab Door and all what we see in the photo below is all because of the several curves the the APT-P Front as, and having a part in changing the colour and how our eyes / camera perceives the colour to be, so we think there are looking at two colour on the base of the APT... that and rhnrhn says doesn't help explain but is also correct, and the photos in my above post that as 370005 that as been cleaned which backs up what rhnrhn said... The Two Photo's below, the slight curve inwards is kind of affected from within the photos, but is it like a 3 fold curve as the top half (Mainly the Yellow) is a different slop / curve again and then from the Bottom colour and a bit into the yellow from the bottom... that's the part that appears to show different on every photo and I can see why you ... (and whoever else that may see it) may see it as two different colours, and not a change as to how light or our eyes/camera changes the colour we see it as, even though it is still the same colour along the length of the bottom Cream/off-white... whatever colour it is... (overly exaggerated... how light bends when it hits water... I can't explain it, as good as I would like) Below... is the part that is effected in curving... Below... The White Line to the colour at the base of the APT-P... Also, the Quarter Windows on each side of the main front windscreen, again due to the slight curves in the body, the glass as the same continuation, photos don't do it justice which is another story but are on the same lines as to how we are explaining here, but that is another story. (the Second Photo Down in this Post, is visible as you don't see the Third Edge of the glass, if that makes sense) Regards Jamie Edited February 25, 2020 by 7APT7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Look back in History at the First Hornby APT-P Hornby 1980 Catalogue 36th Edition Hornby 1981 Catalogue 27th Edition Jamie Edited February 25, 2020 by 7APT7 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Look back in History at the First Hornby APT-P Hornby 1982 Catalogue 28th Edition Jamie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Look back in History at the First Hornby APT-P Hornby 1983 Catalogue 29th Edition Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Look back in History at the First Hornby APT-P Hornby 1984 Catalogue 30th Edition Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Look back in History at the First Hornby APT-P Hornby 1985 Catalogue 31st Edition Hornby APT-P never appeared after the 1985 Catalogue 31st Edition Jamie Edited February 25, 2020 by 7APT7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRail642fan Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, WestRail642fan said: if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered? That would depend on how the inside of the body/chassis are moulded. It would make sense to have the motor in the centre driving both bogies though shafts. I think this has been confirmed previously if I've remembered correctly 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Just in case the NDM being talked of is the 1980s one... It would be possible to fit a second motor, as the non powered bogie uses the same cast frame as the power bogie. It may be a little more involved to arrange for the pick up from both rails. http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=94 Edited February 25, 2020 by Sarahagain added service sheet and link to APT on Hornby Guide site... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 The APT-P Power Car Instruction Sheet & the Pacer Class 142 as the same Couplings as the Centre Power car of the APT-P which is interesting to note.... Part No. L5313, I have bought several of these for the reason of it pinging off when I first DCC Fitted my APT-P, WestRail642fan You can on the this Old APT Power car, make it dual powered bogie... not sure about the new one until it gets release, but I hope the new Hornby APT Power car will be a better motor and therefore no need to.... Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, WestRail642fan said: if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered? Hornby Diesel & Electric models have used a central motor driving all wheels for quite a few years now. (Even the class 31, which I find quite ironic). I see no reason for them to move away from this for the APT. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 13 hours ago, WestRail642fan said: if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered? I would have expected the powered NDM to be driving both bogies anyway - 4 powered wheels might be ok for a DMU but not a 14 car APT (or even 7 each with 2 NDMs) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, WestRail642fan said: if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered? When I queried with Hornby about the motorisation of the NDMs in the 7 car set, Paul Isles, a senior Hornby developer responded that one NDM would be motorised and it would have a central 5 pole motor with shaft drive to both bogies. He advised that the second NDM in the 7 car set would be unmotorized. Hope this helps. Edited February 26, 2020 by rembrow clarification 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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