RMweb Gold rhnrhn Posted June 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2020 On 07/06/2020 at 09:30, boxbrownie said: What is interesting from that cutaway drawing is the power car was obviously originally designed for two pantographs as you can definitely see the voids in the roof at both ends were the pantographs levelling system would be. I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, rhnrhn said: I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus. That could well be correct - is that verifiable information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted June 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, rhnrhn said: I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus. No idea, I was just observing the exact same voids each end on the cutaway drawings, the void one end has the pantograph levelling system running through it. Would be interesting to find out exactly though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rhnrhn Posted June 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: That could well be correct - is that verifiable information? 12 hours ago, boxbrownie said: No idea, I was just observing the exact same voids each end on the cutaway drawings, the void one end has the pantograph levelling system running through it. Would be interesting to find out exactly though. I have based my assumption on the annotated Powercar Layout Drawing that can be found in the British Rail Pamphlets "Advanced Passenger Train" together with the colourised cutaway in British Rail's "Tomorrows Train Today". It looks like the voids also served as inlets for the Traction motor blowers. See Below Copies can be found at APT-P.com: https://www.apt-p.com/DocAPTa.htm https://www.apt-p.com/DocAPTb.htm https://www.apt-p.com/DocTTT.pdf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Good job Hornby don't have to replicate the innards of an APT power car! Indeed, rhnrhn your hypothesis may well be correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted June 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11, 2020 Looks like the workings at each end were more or less a mirror image, makes sense if the fitters fix the pantograph at the wrong end on Friday afternoon 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted June 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2020 Looking at the details on the Hattons site I find it it usual the way you can build 2 different 14 car sets with different power options. https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=668 Firstly get the 5 car set and buy the 9 extra which includes a powered NDM car so you will have a 14 car set with 2 powered NDMs. Alternatively, buy the 7 car set which includes the APT-U development coach (not used in 14 car set) leaving you to buy 8 more but in this case you get a dummy NDM so there is only one powered car in the train. Full details, including the Hornby R numbers are on link above and no doubt other sites. The result is 2 different 14 car sets with the difference being (apart from running numbers) that one set has 2 powered cars and the other 1. Perhaps it depends on whether your layout has inclines or not. Either way it would have to be a big layout 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 7 hours ago, BR Blue said: Looking at the details on the Hattons site I find it it usual the way you can build 2 different 14 car sets with different power options. https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=668 Firstly get the 5 car set and buy the 9 extra which includes a powered NDM car so you will have a 14 car set with 2 powered NDMs. Alternatively, buy the 7 car set which includes the APT-U development coach (not used in 14 car set) leaving you to buy 8 more but in this case you get a dummy NDM so there is only one powered car in the train. Full details, including the Hornby R numbers are on link above and no doubt other sites. The result is 2 different 14 car sets with the difference being (apart from running numbers) that one set has 2 powered cars and the other 1. Perhaps it depends on whether your layout has inclines or not. Either way it would have to be a big layout Also 1 set (that which started as the 7 car pack) has black window surrounds; the other having the full yellow ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) I though start with the 5 car set then build up offerd better value for money, if you did not want the APT-U car. This meant you had to have yellow ends. To get a 14 car set with black ends you have to start with the 7 car set. If you dont want the apt-u. You end up ditching a un powered NDM and an APT-U. This makes it more expensive than the 5 car set. I guess Hornby have done it this way to make the most money . John Edited June 16, 2020 by oleander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, oleander said: To get a 14 car set with black ends you have to start with the 7 car set. If you dont want the apt-u. You end up ditching a un powered NDM and an APT-U. This makes it more expensive than the 5 car set. The U is probably only feasible if included in a set as sales individually would be very hard to guarantee and I guess they wanted to make it possible to cover all variants after all the years of calls for intermediate cars on the old one. There’s still final development to go and they will clarify the powered vs non powered NDM’s later, but they are on it as I asked when ordering. A layout with severe gradients probably is going to need two powered cars? I guess actual testing of full sets on average layouts is the key and the change is relatively minor because the NDMs will only differ in the internal components fitted not the main body or chassis mouldings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Hi PaulRhb on my garden railway there are gradients. So I need two powered NDMs. I would be looking at the black front. This means I have to buy stuff I dont want. I get the whole APT-U . Stick in in a set so they make the numbers. As I dont think it would break even if it was sold on its own. I will wait till testing has been done before ordering anything. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted June 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2020 I am kind of hoping in the future you will be able to buy the driving cars as a 2 car pack to allow variation. I have a full 14 car train on order and the second power car so 2 more driving vehicles would enable me to make up and run 2 apt’s although one would not be prototypical I guess without the coaches which go next to the power car. Didnt think that through did I! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny retro Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Personally, i'd like to recreate the surviving set. But i have read very little about a buffet car being made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted June 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, johny retro said: Personally, i'd like to recreate the surviving set. But i have read very little about a buffet car being made. The image in the Hornby website is a little misleading (!) but this is the buffet cars https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-class-370-advanced-passenger-train-2-car-trbs-coach-pack-48403-48404-era-7.html Andi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, johny retro said: Personally, i'd like to recreate the surviving set. But i have read very little about a buffet car being made. My understanding is the set at Crewe is as follows. I have also included the second N-DM they now have. If you want to make the surviving set with the correct numbers then you will need to do some renumbering and/or paint the nose window surrounds black If you start with the 5 Car set R3873 you get 1 DTS & 1 TBF with the correct numbers but the nose window surround is not black If you start with the 7 car set R3874 you get 1 TBF & 1 N-DM with the correct numbers. The DTS's have the correct black window surrounds but the incorrect numbers If you start with the 7 car set 2 DTS,s & 1 TBF will need to be renumbered There will be a N-DM & a APT-U left over The TRBS R40012 is a 2 coach pack (One coach is not used ) If you are comfortable painting the front window surrounds black & doing some renumbering then the 5 car set would be the cheapest place to start If you don't want to paint the front windows black & you don't mind the coach numbers being wrong then the 7 car set would be the better starting point Hope this helps John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT-P Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Just found this old photo of mine from the roof of an APT-P PowerCar. Rob 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted June 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, APT-P said: Just found this old photo of mine from the roof of an APT-P PowerCar. Rob Absolutely perfect, thank you just what I was looking for 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT-P Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) On 24/06/2020 at 11:19, boxbrownie said: Absolutely perfect, thank you just what I was looking for And another just found on another DV tape ! From No.1 End Don't forget your cat on the roof ! http://www.apt-p.com/TiddlesRoof.htm Edited June 29, 2020 by APT-P 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy water Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 On 06/06/2020 at 23:02, Dixie Dean said: Also found this, but poor resolution: Both appear to indicate little other than insulators and wiring on the roof. Looks like most NDM you get on eBay with pantograph and other details missing! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, muddy water said: Looks like most NDM you get on eBay with pantograph and other details missing! I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!! Edited July 3, 2020 by Dixie Dean 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Unlike the trailer coaches, the power cars were of steel construction rather than extruded aluminium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted July 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!! Just like the B52...all wrinkly wing roots on the ground but once up and going it all smooths out......not so sure BRE took a leaf from Boeing’s book though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted July 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said: Just like the B52...all wrinkly wing roots on the ground but once up and going it all smooths out......not so sure BRE took a leaf from Boeing’s book though Not quite the same, but a friend of mine had a Lotus Esprit. When he first started it the engine sounded like it was on its last legs, but when warmed up, it purred. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted July 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Not quite the same, but a friend of mine had a Lotus Esprit. When he first started it the engine sounded like it was on its last legs, but when warmed up, it purred. Roy Probably an early one with the “torque less wonder” Vauxhall’s derived engine........not a highlight in Lotus history Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Harvey Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 19 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!! Probably needs an "orange peel" paint effect to give the right appearance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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