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Hornby APT (2020 tooling)


PaulRhB
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On 07/06/2020 at 09:30, boxbrownie said:

What is interesting from that cutaway drawing is the power car was obviously originally designed for two pantographs as you can definitely see the voids in the roof at both ends were the pantographs levelling system would be.

I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which  is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus.

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4 minutes ago, rhnrhn said:

I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which  is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus.

 

That could well be correct - is that verifiable information?

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1 hour ago, rhnrhn said:

I thought the voids' main purpose was to act as inlets for the hydrokinetic braking system's cooling fans, which  is is why there were two, one over each bogey, with one of them also providing a covenient location for the pant and it's anti tilt apparatus.

No idea, I was just observing the exact same voids each end on the cutaway drawings, the void one end has the pantograph levelling system running through it.

 

Would be interesting to find out exactly though.

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13 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

That could well be correct - is that verifiable information?

 

12 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

No idea, I was just observing the exact same voids each end on the cutaway drawings, the void one end has the pantograph levelling system running through it.

 

Would be interesting to find out exactly though.

I have based my assumption on the annotated Powercar Layout Drawing that can be found in the British Rail Pamphlets "Advanced Passenger Train" together with the colourised cutaway in British Rail's "Tomorrows Train Today".  It looks like the voids also served as inlets for the Traction motor blowers. See Below
Copies can be found at APT-P.com:
https://www.apt-p.com/DocAPTa.htm 
https://www.apt-p.com/DocAPTb.htm  
https://www.apt-p.com/DocTTT.pdf

powercar.jpg

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Looking at the details on the Hattons site I find it it usual the way you can build 2 different 14 car sets with different power options.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=668

 

Firstly get the 5 car set and buy the 9 extra which includes a powered NDM car so you will have a 14 car set with 2 powered NDMs.

 

Alternatively, buy the 7 car set which includes the APT-U development coach (not used in 14 car set) leaving you to buy 8 more but in this case you get a dummy NDM so there is only one powered car in the train.

 

Full details, including the Hornby R numbers are on link above and no doubt other sites. The result is 2 different 14 car sets with the difference being (apart from running numbers) that one set has 2 powered cars and the other 1. Perhaps it depends on whether your layout has inclines or not. Either way it would have to be a big layout :)

 

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7 hours ago, BR Blue said:

Looking at the details on the Hattons site I find it it usual the way you can build 2 different 14 car sets with different power options.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=668

 

Firstly get the 5 car set and buy the 9 extra which includes a powered NDM car so you will have a 14 car set with 2 powered NDMs.

 

Alternatively, buy the 7 car set which includes the APT-U development coach (not used in 14 car set) leaving you to buy 8 more but in this case you get a dummy NDM so there is only one powered car in the train.

 

Full details, including the Hornby R numbers are on link above and no doubt other sites. The result is 2 different 14 car sets with the difference being (apart from running numbers) that one set has 2 powered cars and the other 1. Perhaps it depends on whether your layout has inclines or not. Either way it would have to be a big layout :)

 

 

Also 1 set (that which started as the 7 car pack) has black window surrounds; the other having the full yellow ends.

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I though start with the 5 car set then build up offerd better value for money, if you did not want the APT-U car. This meant you had to have yellow ends.
To get a 14 car set with black ends you have to start with the 7 car set.  If you dont want the apt-u. You end up ditching a un powered NDM and an APT-U.  This makes it more expensive than the 5 car set.
I guess Hornby have done it this way to make the most money .
John

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1 hour ago, oleander said:


To get a 14 car set with black ends you have to start with the 7 car set.  If you dont want the apt-u. You end up ditching a un powered NDM and an APT-U.  This makes it more expensive than the 5 car set.

The U is probably only feasible if included in a set as sales individually would be very hard to guarantee and I guess they wanted to make it possible to cover all variants after all the years of calls for intermediate cars on the old one. There’s still final development to go and they will clarify the powered vs non powered NDM’s later, but they are on it as I asked when ordering. A layout with severe gradients probably is going to need two powered cars? I guess actual testing of full sets on average layouts is the key and the change is relatively minor because the NDMs will only differ in the internal components fitted not the main body or chassis mouldings. 

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Hi PaulRhb

on my garden railway there are gradients. So I need two powered NDMs. I would be looking at the black front. This means I have to buy stuff I dont want.
I get the whole APT-U . Stick in in a set so they make the numbers. As I dont think it would break even if it was sold on its own.
I will wait till testing has been done before ordering anything.
John

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I am kind of hoping in the future you will be able to buy the driving cars as a 2 car pack to allow variation. I have a full 14 car train on order and the second power car so 2 more driving vehicles would enable me to make up and run 2 apt’s although one would not be prototypical I guess without the coaches which go next to the power car.

Didnt think that through did I!

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14 minutes ago, johny retro said:

Personally, i'd like to recreate the surviving set.

But i have read very little about a buffet car being made.

The image in the Hornby website is a little misleading (!) but this is the buffet cars https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-class-370-advanced-passenger-train-2-car-trbs-coach-pack-48403-48404-era-7.html

 

Andi

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48 minutes ago, johny retro said:

Personally, i'd like to recreate the surviving set.

But i have read very little about a buffet car being made.

My understanding is the set at Crewe is as follows. I have also included the second N-DM they now have.

 

image.png.4f2ade1810a9468d83fdf4abd1b7318b.png

 

If you want to make the surviving set with the correct numbers then you will need to do some renumbering and/or paint the nose window surrounds black 

If you start with the 5 Car set R3873 you get 1 DTS & 1 TBF with the correct numbers but the nose window surround is not black

If you start with the 7 car set R3874 you get 1 TBF & 1 N-DM  with the correct numbers. The DTS's have the correct black window surrounds but the incorrect numbers

If you start with the 7 car set 2 DTS,s & 1 TBF will need to be renumbered

There will be a N-DM & a APT-U left over

 

The TRBS R40012 is a 2 coach pack (One coach is not used )

 

If you are comfortable painting the front window surrounds black & doing some renumbering then the 5 car set would be the cheapest place to start

 

If you don't want to paint the front windows black & you don't mind the coach numbers being wrong then the 7 car set would be the better starting point

 

Hope this helps

John

 

 

 

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On 06/06/2020 at 23:02, Dixie Dean said:

Also found this, but poor resolution:

 

image.png.291083219c7811d49bbeb98d3e5e55bd.png

 

Both appear to indicate little other than insulators and wiring on the roof.

Looks like most NDM you get on eBay with pantograph and other details missing!

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10 hours ago, muddy water said:

image.png.a56c3947dbd7be2de2b656fe31a4e722.png

  

Looks like most NDM you get on eBay with pantograph and other details missing!

 

I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!!

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12 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!!

Just like the B52...all wrinkly wing roots on the ground but once up and going it all smooths out......not so sure BRE took a leaf from Boeing’s book though :D

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7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Just like the B52...all wrinkly wing roots on the ground but once up and going it all smooths out......not so sure BRE took a leaf from Boeing’s book though :D

Not quite the same, but a friend of mine had a Lotus Esprit. When he first started it the engine sounded like it was on its last legs, but when warmed up, it purred. 
 

Roy

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29 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Not quite the same, but a friend of mine had a Lotus Esprit. When he first started it the engine sounded like it was on its last legs, but when warmed up, it purred. 
 

Roy

Probably an early one with the “torque less wonder” Vauxhall’s derived engine........not a highlight in Lotus history :lol:

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19 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

I watched an APT video on YouTube the other day, and the bodywork was just like it is in this picture, looks like someones gone completely berserk with a hammer all down the sides - hopefully Hornby won't try to reproduce the ripples!!

 

Probably needs an "orange peel" paint effect to give the right appearance.

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