Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[Roy Langridge]

38 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

im just going to wait for it to release before buying it, hopefully the price will go down then

Not if the only unsold stock sits with Horby.

 

Roy

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Given the "proposed" solidarity,  how many entrepreneurs will see an opportunity to buy directly through Hornby and then place a profit margin on an eBay sale?    Principles are one thing but when those principled people see the Hornby stock sold out will they pay more simply to get a set?  Hornby may release a second run but then of late subsequent releases are not generally forthcoming.  If you can swallow your principles then you will deny someone else of an eBay sale at a premium price.  Think of it that way rather than sticking to your guns.  Look to the Rocket release where pre-orders were cancelled only to see ridiculous sale prices on eBay. 

 

And the Rocket experience showed that another Rocket appeared one year later. Only rush to buy if the price is good.

[GWR-fan]

7 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

And the Rocket experience showed that another Rocket appeared one year later. Only rush to buy if the price is good.

 

Financing a repeat run of a single locomotive like the Rocket would be peanuts compared to re-releasing the APT in a 5, 7 or 14 car run.   Hornby had a plan for the Rocket with additional items like coaches and rolling stock to be released so a re-release was warranted.  After waiting years for an air-smoothed Merchant Navy did Hornby immediately re-release another model in an acceptable timeframe given the anticipated demand for the model?  After all the models released over the last two years,  Hornby will be cash strapped for sometime into the future,  especially as refinancing deadlines approach.  A repeat APT run,  highly unlikely in a reasonable timeframe. 

[Pete the Elaner]

14 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Financing a repeat run of a single locomotive like the Rocket would be peanuts compared to re-releasing the APT in a 5, 7 or 14 car run.   Hornby had a plan for the Rocket with additional items like coaches and rolling stock to be released so a re-release was warranted.  After waiting years for an air-smoothed Merchant Navy did Hornby immediately re-release another model in an acceptable timeframe given the anticipated demand for the model?  After all the models released over the last two years,  Hornby will be cash strapped for sometime into the future,  especially as refinancing deadlines approach.  A repeat APT run,  highly unlikely in a reasonable timeframe. 

 

The only exception I can think of to that was 46256 Sir William A Stanier FRS in BR red. The first batch sold out so quickly that a second was put into production.

 

7 hours ago, aureol40012 said:

A tip on where to find a 7 car set that isn’t direct from Hornby would be appreciated. Ta.

 

Contact your local model shop, not a big box-shifter like Hattons.

[aureol40012]

21 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The only exception I can think of to that was 46256 Sir William A Stanier FRS in BR red. The first batch sold out so quickly that a second was put into production.

 

 

Contact your local model shop, not a big box-shifter like Hattons.

If only I’d thought of that sooner......

[JSpencer]

52 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Financing a repeat run of a single locomotive like the Rocket would be peanuts compared to re-releasing the APT in a 5, 7 or 14 car run.   Hornby had a plan for the Rocket with additional items like coaches and rolling stock to be released so a re-release was warranted.  After waiting years for an air-smoothed Merchant Navy did Hornby immediately re-release another model in an acceptable timeframe given the anticipated demand for the model?  After all the models released over the last two years,  Hornby will be cash strapped for sometime into the future,  especially as refinancing deadlines approach.  A repeat APT run,  highly unlikely in a reasonable timeframe. 

 

If the APT sells out fast, additional runs/variants would be perfectly logical and beneficial to a cash strapped Hornby. They could even do just a 10 car set (a few formations that existed to choose from). A basic 6 car set with 4 car add on pack.

The air smooth Merchant Navy is probably not a good analogy. Extra variants were announced soon after the first batch and it looks more like organizing production in the factory that was causing a delay rather than Hornby waiting. TBH, I suspect many people lost interest due to the delay and spent their money elsewhere. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by JSpencer

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

im just going to wait for it to release before buying it, hopefully the price will go down then

That will depend on whether Hornby are left with a lot that have failed to sell.

 

If that happens, they will still need to convert their investment into cash and offload it, whether by discounting themselves or trying to dump it onto retailers who by then ought to know better than to carry that particular line.

[DavidBird]

Well, that's my 4th APT ordered!

A DJM one, we know what happened to that.

Then a Hornby through the wholesalers. Hornby stopped dealing through them.

Hattons cancelled preorder.

Unfortunately, I don't have a local model shop so lastly another small retailer, a family shop, active on here. Hoping this one sticks.

If not, it's back to 1980s Hornby cut-and-shut.

Edited May 10, 2021 by DavidBird

[rembrow]

38 minutes ago, DavidBird said:

Well, that's my 4th APT ordered!

A DJM one, we know what happened to that.

Then a Hornby through the wholesalers. Hornby stopped dealing through them.

Hattons cancelled preorder.

Unfortunately, I don't have a local model shop so lastly another small retailer, a family shop, active on here. Hoping this one sticks.

If not, it's back to 1980s Hornby cut-and-shut.

Like you I've had to move my order for the APT a few times. I didn't get involved with DJM,  as I didn't believe my payment would be safe. I originally ordered the Hornby 7 car set from Rails, in Jan 2020. I had to move my order when they stopped supplying Hornby, so went to Hattons. When Hattons started to cancel my 2021 pre orders, I decided not to chance the APT order and moved it to Kernow Models about 3 months ago, so I'm well down on the order date with them. I've spoken to Kernow today and although they have had to stop taking pre orders on the 7 car set, they are expecting they can fulfil all accepted pre orders, including mine - here's hoping. 

[pwr]

I've got one on order from Hornby. Didn't have any trouble but of course had to pay the full price.

 

I would imagine there will be a second run iff its that popular but you can bet the price will be at least 20% higher

 

Paul R

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, pwr said:

I've got one on order from Hornby. Didn't have any trouble but of course had to pay the full price.

 

I would imagine there will be a second run iff its that popular but you can bet the price will be at least 20% higher

 

Paul R

And that if you wait a couple of years they will be worth at least 20% less on ebay rather like Blue Pullmans

[acg5324]

19 hours ago, aureol40012 said:

A tip on where to find a 7 car set that isn’t direct from Hornby would be appreciated. Ta.

Try Monk Bar Models in York. You will need to ring. It’s not on the website.

http://www.monkbarmodelshop.co.uk/

[WestRail642fan]

20 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Not if the only unsold stock sits with Horby.

 

Roy

 

15 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

That will depend on whether Hornby are left with a lot that have failed to sell.

 

If that happens, they will still need to convert their investment into cash and offload it, whether by discounting themselves or trying to dump it onto retailers who by then ought to know better than to carry that particular line.

the only issue is that i dont have the money to pre-order it as my rent takes nearly all my wages

[adb968008]

I suspect with APTs, it will be the centre coaches get left on the shelves.

 

But if APT is successful, the temptation for Hornby to make more will be there.

[Bloodnok]

On 11/05/2021 at 09:38, adb968008 said:

I suspect with APTs, it will be the centre coaches get left on the shelves.

 

But if APT is successful, the temptation for Hornby to make more will be there.

Yes. There are plenty of shops that still have pre-orders up for the various centre coaches, but it's harder to find retailers with the base sets listed.

The way it looks at the moment, I suspect the base sets may sell out, possibly even to pre-order leaving a number of additional coaches on the shelves. If that does happen, I can see another base pack being produced with different numbered vehicles, perhaps even with a minor livery variation. That would create more demand for the existing additional centre coaches.

[Michael Hodgson]

21 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I have a pendolino that runs at 6 coaches because that suits my layout, however I have the correct stock to make it up to a full length 9 cars, if I was buying an APT the temptation would be there to slowly add to it till I had full length. Just because.

If it's a roundy-roundy layout you could keep on adding coaches till it catches up with itself!

[oleander]

Hi 
In a post there was a Photo showing interior lighting. I am guessing for DCC we will need a Function decoder  in each DTS and a Drive or sound  decoder in the NDM. 

For controling the lights in the TS, TRBS,TU,TF. Would it be a Function decoder in each Coach or each pair of coaches ?

[MrJack47790]

46 minutes ago, oleander said:

Hi 
In a post there was a Photo showing interior lighting. I am guessing for DCC we will need a Function decoder  in each DTS and a Drive or sound  decoder in the NDM. 

For controling the lights in the TS, TRBS,TU,TF. Would it be a Function decoder in each Coach or each pair of coaches ?

When i pre ordered and got it dcc fitted they asked Hornby-It will be a decoder for each DTS to control the headlights and a decoder for every motored NDM-also where the sound will go in.

Hope that helps.

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, oleander said:

Hi 
In a post there was a Photo showing interior lighting. I am guessing for DCC we will need a Function decoder  in each DTS and a Drive or sound  decoder in the NDM. 

For controling the lights in the TS, TRBS,TU,TF. Would it be a Function decoder in each Coach or each pair of coaches ?

None of Hornby's coaches require DCC decoders for lighting. They are simply powered off of the tracks or they have power connectors

Edited May 14, 2021 by MGR Hooper!

[letterspider]

If avoiding the use of powered connectors is a very considerable cost saving - perhaps Hornby would be generous in providing a pair of cheap function only decoders for the trailers?

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, letterspider said:

If avoiding the use of powered connectors is a very considerable cost saving - perhaps Hornby would be generous in providing a pair of cheap function only decoders for the trailers?

 

Whenever I've looked for function only decoders in the past, they have been more expensive than entry-level drive (normal) decoders. I guess this is because the market for them is smaller.

 

I suppose the best options are to re-use those from locos you have previously upgraded, or use it as an excuse to upgrade those in locos which you want something better for.

[letterspider]

In that case I will settle for an APT TTS sound chip,  and it would be nice for Hornby to do the 87 while they are at it. In case Mr Kohler is reading this thread...

[letterspider]

Putting a power car in the middle of a train seems to have caused BR and Hornby more problems than it solved!

[Roy Langridge]

13 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Putting a power car in the middle of a train seems to have caused BR and Hornby more problems than it solved!

Not unusual at all over the years. Many EMUs over the years have had driving trailers and non driving motor coaches. Generally very successfully. 
 

Roy

[The Ghost of IKB]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

Not unusual at all over the years. Many EMUs over the years have had driving trailers and non driving motor coaches. Generally very successfully. 
 

Roy

The difference with APT,  was that rather than in an EMU, where the non driving motors allowed passengers to pass through or occupy the coach, APT effectively had two locos sat in the middle of the train. Having two pantographs raised simutaneously at speed caused problems with the contact wire,  meaning the two power cars had to be coupled together, resulting in two completely independent sets of coaches. TGV avoided this by running power lines between the two power cars along the coach roofs, something the uk regulators wouldnt allow at the time.  

No problem off course in 4mm. We could run a dcc bus along coach roofs without risk of frying our plastic passengers.

Edited May 14, 2021 by The Ghost of IKB