Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[7APT7]

1 minute ago, Markwj said:

I am sure you are right but I like to be organised! Pre orders in can forget about it until release now!

 

Hi Markwj

 

Yes, I have Pre-Ordered to and ordered more than I want at this point but as the information comes through over times or the coming months on what each pack as etc, I may down size my order to suit what I want nearer the time.  Yes, I would recommend to Pre-Order the APT-P so not to be disappointed because you are a pack short and have sold out etc.! 

 

Regards

Jamie

[John ks]

50 minutes ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi Markwj

 

Yes, I have Pre-Ordered to and ordered more than I want at this point but as the information comes through over times or the coming months on what each pack as etc, I may down size my order to suit what I want nearer the time.  Yes, I would recommend to Pre-Order the APT-P so not to be disappointed because you are a pack short and have sold out etc.! 

 

Regards

Jamie

 

The following list I cut & pasted from Hornby's "New for 2020" on the first day it was listed. It would appear that the RRP has dropped since then,Eg the coach packs are now £82.49

Ignore the yellow high light its just what I've ordered

 

About the only information not clear is the nose colour. IIRC a previous poster asked Hornby & the 7car set has a black nose & the 5 car set  is Yellow

This chart was made from the above information & has appeared on the last previous Page & near the beginning of this thread Page 5

 

John

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by John ks

[7APT7]

2 minutes ago, John ks said:

 

The following list I cut & pasted from Hornby's "New for 2020" on the first day it was listed. It would appear that the RRP has dropped since then,Eg the coach packs are now £82.49

Ignore the yellow high light its just what I've ordered

 

About the only information not clear is the nose colour. IIRC a previous poster asked Hornby & the 7car set has a black nose & the 5 car set  is Yellow

This chart was made from the above information & has appeared on the last Page & near the beginning of this thread

 

John

 

 

 

Hi Johnks

 

Is the R3948, BR, Class 370 Advanced Passenger Train Non-Driving Motor (NDM), 49004, Is this just an Extra Powered Coach that can be added and add a DCC Fitted Decoder inside to make the APT-P rake a Dual Powered set of NDM Coach to add to the Centre of the APT-P Rake, If I buy the 5-Car Set or the 7-Car Set...?

 

I take it, that both of the NDM Coaches, One from the 5 or 7-Car Pack and the Extra R3949 NDM Coach, I'd buy, would both need Decoders inside for them to run effectively together, I take it that the Powered Cars aka NDM Coach whether that be one in the 5 or 7-Car Set have Motors inside which are DCC Ready...?

 

I would also understand that bother NDM Coaches would need Decodes Fitted to make the APT-P run as it should, there is No None Powered NDM Coach that runs as a Dummy so to speak, is that correct to...? Just so I understand what I am buying really or need in my own rake.

 

Thanks for the Information, much appropriated.

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Regards

Jamie

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

Hi Roy Langridge

 

Nice, those Class 745's are 12-Car Sets then and the Class 755's are 5-Car Sets, is that the only difference between the two Classes of 745/755...?

Still look smart, hope they sort out the issues, I guess like all new product, have there problems.

 

I noticed the Pantograph on the Centre Power Car but are they Dual Powered to or even Triple Powered with Pantograph, Diesel and Third Rail...?  I also notice that every Two Coaches share the same Bogie, like the APT-P in part and the Euro Train I guess...

 

Regard

Jamie

 

The 745s are 12 car EMUs with no engines

The 755s are 3 or 4 passenger car bi modes with an engine car. But as I understand it the engine cars could be removed to make the 755 an EMU or engine cars could be added to 745s to make them bi mode.

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Being pedantic, many EMUs have the motor coaches not at the ends. Often a four-car unit will only have one motor coach. 
 

Roy

 

Whilst it is definitely true what you're saying, and very relevant of the era the APT is from, I'd expect nowadays they will be moving away from this to maximize acceleration out of stations? I may be wrong just thinking out loud as such.

[PaulRhB]

The only NDM offered separately is 49004 which you’d need to make the 370 003/4 five car pack up to a twin power car set plus the four relevant 03/04 coach packs. 

The 7 coach 370 001/2 pack includes 49001&2 and the APT-U car according to Hornby so only needs the four 01/02-A suffixed coach packs. 

 

Assuming they are stand alone units they will need separate decoders but we will have to wait for confirmation as development moves on as there’s nothing on the website or in the catalogue about it. 
 

Edited January 26, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Bigeddie]

2 hours ago, John ks said:

 

The following list I cut & pasted from Hornby's "New for 2020" on the first day it was listed. It would appear that the RRP has dropped since then,Eg the coach packs are now £82.49

Ignore the yellow high light its just what I've ordered

 

About the only information not clear is the nose colour. IIRC a previous poster asked Hornby & the 7car set has a black nose & the 5 car set  is Yellow

This chart was made from the above information & has appeared on the last previous Page & near the beginning of this thread Page 5

 

John

 

 

Hey john, useful post, thanks. I just checked Hornby website and the rrp still seems in line with your original list ( eg £89 for two coach set etc) i see some resellers are offering discounts, but cpuld not see any lower direct Hornby pricing, or working discount vouchers ( today or when i ordered mine!) 

 

have i missed something?

[John ks]

 

2 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi Johnks

 

Is the R3948, BR, Class 370 Advanced Passenger Train Non-Driving Motor (NDM), 49004, Is this just an Extra Powered Coach that can be added and add a DCC Fitted Decoder inside to make the APT-P rake a Dual Powered set of NDM Coach to add to the Centre of the APT-P Rake, If I buy the 5-Car Set or the 7-Car Set...?

 

I take it, that both of the NDM Coaches, One from the 5 or 7-Car Pack and the Extra R3949 NDM Coach, I'd buy, would both need Decoders inside for them to run effectively together, I take it that the Powered Cars aka NDM Coach whether that be one in the 5 or 7-Car Set have Motors inside which are DCC Ready...?

 

I would also understand that bother NDM Coaches would need Decodes Fitted to make the APT-P run as it should, there is No None Powered NDM Coach that runs as a Dummy so to speak, is that correct to...? Just so I understand what I am buying really or need in my own rake.

 

Thanks for the Information, much appropriated.

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Regards

Jamie

 

I think Paul's post answers your questions

 

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

The only NDM offered separately is 49004 which you’d need to make the 370 003/4 five car pack up to a twin power car set plus the four relevant 03/04 coach packs. 

The 7 coach 370 001/2 pack includes 49001&2 and the APT-U car according to Hornby so only needs the four 01/02-A suffixed coach packs. 

 

Assuming they are stand alone units they will need separate decoders but we will have to wait for confirmation as development moves on as there’s nothing on the website or in the catalogue about it. 
 

Regarding Decoders Here's a post I prepared earlier

 

On 20/01/2020 at 10:27, John ks said:

In an earlier post I speculated that you would need 3 or 4 decoders for the 5 & 7 cat APT sets

 

Will the NDM be powered? Yes, see page 61 of 2020 catalogue R3948 NDM has a 5-pole motor

 

Will there be wiring through the length of the train? I don't think so, no mention of coach lighting so not necessary

 

Will the DTs need pickups for directional lighting? Yes, see previous answer

 

Number of Decoders needed? 1 for each power car & 1 for each DT

 

The class 43 & Class 800 both require 2 decoders if you want the directional lighting to function correctly

 

I stand by my previous speculation

John

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Bigeddie said:

Hey john, useful post, thanks. I just checked Hornby website and the rrp still seems in line with your original list ( eg £89 for two coach set etc) i see some resellers are offering discounts, but cpuld not see any lower direct Hornby pricing, or working discount vouchers ( today or when i ordered mine!) 

 

have i missed something?

 

Go to Hornby web site & click on “new for 2020”

Here is a screen grab from page 2. Unless its showing me ex VAT prices

 

 

 

John

 

[royaloak]

I have just gone onto the Hornby site and it is now showing £89.99, how odd.

 

Its not excluding VAT because that would be £74,99.

Edited January 26, 2020 by royaloak

[Hilux5972]

43 minutes ago, John ks said:

 

 

I think Paul's post answers your questions

 

Regarding Decoders Here's a post I prepared earlier

 

 

 

 

 

Go to Hornby web site & click on “new for 2020”

Here is a screen grab from page 2. Unless its showing me ex VAT prices

 

 

 

John

 

If your not in the UK the Hornby website will show ex-VAT prices

[Bigeddie]

Well i just rechecked and  like Royaloak i get the £89 etc price set. I suspect that its all about tax and where the website thinks you are. Perhaps  John is seeing a price without uk vat (20%) but with austrailian sales tax?

 

interestingly i am at present cruising off the NZ coast, but using a maritime link, so my ipad probably rembers where i usually access the site from.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Bigeddie
Typo

[sandwich station]

2 hours ago, royaloak said:

I have just gone onto the Hornby site and it is now showing £89.99, how odd.

 

Its not excluding VAT because that would be £74,99.

 

1 hour ago, Bigeddie said:

Well i just rechecked and  like Royaloak i get the £89 etc price set. I suspect that its all about tax and where the website thinks you are. Perhaps  John is seeing a price without uk vat (20%) but with austrailian sales tax?

 

interestingly i am at present cruising off the NZ coast, but using a maritime link, so my ipad probably rembers where i usually access the site from.

 

£89.99 - 20% VAT + 10% GST = £82.49

[Roy Langridge]

7 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Whilst it is definitely true what you're saying, and very relevant of the era the APT is from, I'd expect nowadays they will be moving away from this to maximize acceleration out of stations? I may be wrong just thinking out loud as such.

The acceleration is determined by the power available, not so much where it is delivered. There has been a move towards driving motor coaches recently, mainly as a desire to deliver units in different configurations (number of coaches). That is by no means universal, however, and there are still new units delivered with motored trailers. 
 

Roy

[TomScrut]

44 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

The acceleration is determined by the power available, not so much where it is delivered. There has been a move towards driving motor coaches recently, mainly as a desire to deliver units in different configurations (number of coaches). That is by no means universal, however, and there are still new units delivered with motored trailers. 
 

Roy

 

Ah ok I would have thought traction could be an issue but I suppose assuming the passenger weight distribution is even in the MU then traction will improve as the requirement for torque increases.

 

And the high powered stuff with loads of motors (such as the class 800) does indeed cause issues in terms of power supply (where TPE 802s cannot run on electric on the ECML up above Newcastle in case an LNER 800/801 is in the same section)

[7APT7]

7 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

The acceleration is determined by the power available, not so much where it is delivered. There has been a move towards driving motor coaches recently, mainly as a desire to deliver units in different configurations (number of coaches). That is by no means universal, however, and there are still new units delivered with motored trailers. 
 

Roy

 

Hi Roy

 

That's very interesting you should say that, as I was watching on YouTube recently, and not sure if it as the new Class 755 I was watching, but the man on the blog was saying that because of how they are powered, not sure if that means from a central point or each bogies being powered individually was not clearly defined, but he did say notice how much lower down inside the coach was and noticed the floor and seating was to and he pointed out the doors on the outside as they opened were the same height as the each other, so no more need for an access ramp, which would enable Powered Scooters / wheelchairs and pushchairs to literally walk into the coach without the need of a ramp to enter the coach.

 

He was saying this new Class of EMU/DMU may be the very first... Erm... what's the phrase I'm looking for here... like... the first disables friendly access coach made but he didn't say those words, it was worded more PC than that, like more of an ergonomically friendly coach, is that's the word and went on to say I wonder if these are the start of things to come out in the future on the railway network.

 

I'm trying to find the clip to see how he worded it... But they are literately hardly no gap or step between platform and train entrance. Which kind of makes sense with what you have said about the move towards driving motor coaches, is this to allow lower floors for easier access.

 

Regards

Jamie

[WestRail642fan]

19 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi Roy Langridge

 

Haha... so the same issues as the APT-P had then, you obviously know them better, I'm not in that neck of the woods so I only get to see a working Rake on YouTube haha... so that's why I don't know what issues they are having with them and I'll look in to the Class 745's I didn't know about those ones. I notice the 12-Car Sets don't have a Centre Power Car, but the pantograph is on the second coach in, and no pantograph on the other end of the rake like the Pendolino's have.  I also noticed only One Set of Double Doors per coach in the Centre, rather than Doors at each end of the Coach like most tend to have.

 

They still look nice just like the APT-P did, regardless of the issues they are experiencing with them, Deja Vu all over again then...! Is it the APT-P Look alike Bogies they have the issues with then... or some other running issues. I just thought APT-P look alike in part soon as I saw it.

 

Regards

Jamie  

Actually, the Class 745 has two pantographs, one at each end, same goes for the 755/4, the 755/3 only has the one pantograph as it only has one intermediate trailer

[7APT7]

1 minute ago, WestRail642fan said:

Actually, the Class 745 has two pantographs, one at each end, same goes for the 755/4, the 755/3 only has the one pantograph as it only has one intermediate trailer

 

Hi WestRail642fan

 

Yes, I did notice only one pantograph I was surprised not to see another one at the other end of the 12-Car set but from the look of the coach there seem to be nothing outwardly visible to say it was the Power car apart from the Pantograph on the roof at the one end that is and those don't have the smaller mini Coach either do they... smart class of train though.

 

Regards

Jamie

[spamcan61]

12 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

 

£89.99 - 20% VAT + 10% GST = £82.49

You need to subtract 16.5% from the gross price to get the net of vat price, not 20%. Or at least I hope so or I've been doing my VAT returns wrong!

[TomScrut]

17 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

You need to subtract 16.5% from the gross price to get the net of vat price, not 20%. Or at least I hope so or I've been doing my VAT returns wrong!

 

16.6666% recurring actually, so you could be making an absolute killing off that 0.1666%!

[sandwich station]

3 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

You need to subtract 16.5% from the gross price to get the net of vat price, not 20%. Or at least I hope so or I've been doing my VAT returns wrong!

 

 

All you have to do is divide it by 1.2 that takes the 20% off that was added as tax.

[sandwich station]

Triple Post.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sandwich station

[sandwich station]

triple post.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by sandwich station

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, sandwich station said:

 

 

All you have to do is divide it by 1.2 that takes the 20% off that was added as tax.

 Exactly. But the % if it matters is 16.666 recurring.

 

100*0.2/1.2= 16.666 recurring

[7APT7]

Hi All

 

 

 

I do hope Hornby match the colours more correctly on the Next 2020 APT-P Release...

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by 7APT7

[7APT7]

And the N-DM Power Cars Colours Match the Hornby 2020 APT-P

 

 

 

Below Formations

I came across these to, I wonder if these variants were ever planned for Real to... Obviously they were much longer in length, I do wonder if these would have been the final release of the Ex-TU Full Rake of what may of been but all None Tilt due to the wheel sets like the New MK5's would have been, before the MK4 Coaches came along we have today along with the Class 91 & MK4 DVT Car.

 

 

 

Regards

Edited January 28, 2020 by AY Mod
Copyright images removed - refer to http://apt-p.com/APTGalleryAndrewArthur.htm