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Hornby APT 2020


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1 hour ago, WestRail642fan said:

if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered?

That would depend on how the inside of the body/chassis are moulded. It would make sense to have the motor in the centre driving both bogies though shafts. I think this has been confirmed previously if I've remembered correctly 

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Just in case the NDM being talked of is the 1980s one...

 

It would be possible to fit a second motor, as the non powered bogie uses the same cast frame as the power bogie.

 

It may be a little more involved to arrange for the pick up from both rails.

 

ServiceSheetNo121.jpg.2e88c20171f9e5c0ad72a3197920a984.jpg

 

ServiceSheetNo121Back.jpg.113eb274bd0a1baa469a347202391122.jpg

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=94

 

 

Edited by Sarahagain
added service sheet and link to APT on Hornby Guide site...
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The APT-P Power Car Instruction Sheet & the Pacer Class 142 as the same Couplings as the Centre Power car of the APT-P which is interesting to note....

 

Part No. L5313, I have bought several of these for the reason of it pinging off when I first DCC Fitted my APT-P,

 

WestRail642fan You can on the this Old APT Power car, make it dual powered bogie... not sure about the new one until it gets release, but I hope the new Hornby APT Power car will be a better motor and therefore no need to.... 

 

737246924_HornbyClass370APT-PPowerCarR_704.jpeg.13c6fa79f063c8a936a4e1308d07c0b9.jpeg

 

765084668_HornbyClass142PacerTwinRailbus1.jpeg.3a3cef3c6d3e2c0cdfd9652c66b1a111.jpeg

 

Jamie

 

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3 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered?

Hornby Diesel & Electric models have used a central motor driving all wheels for quite a few years now. (Even the class 31, which I find quite ironic). I see no reason for them to move away from this for the APT.

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13 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered?

 

I would have expected the powered NDM to be driving both bogies anyway - 4 powered wheels might be ok for a DMU but not a 14 car APT (or even 7 each with 2 NDMs)

 

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15 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered?

When I queried with Hornby about the motorisation of the NDMs in the 7 car set, Paul Isles, a senior Hornby developer responded that one NDM would be motorised and it would have a central 5 pole motor with shaft drive to both bogies. He advised that the second NDM in the 7 car set would be unmotorized. Hope this helps.

Edited by rembrow
clarification
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13 minutes ago, rembrow said:

Paul Isles, a senior Hornby developer

Nope, I’m just the Researcher, although the ‘senior’ moments are becoming more regular these days... :rolleyes:

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15 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

if the NDM has one motor fitted, would it be possible to install a second motor into the NDM so both bogies are powered?

Hi WestRail642Fan

Yes and No .
I looked at this for an unpowered ROCO loco many year ago. I am guessing the same problem would apply to day, as we do not know how the inside of the unmotored NDM is.
You most probly will need the following items. Motor, shafts, all the gears from the Gear towers. Possible the sides from the gear towers. Given the NDM does not have lights . You would need pickups and PCB as well. Then may be some other items on the service sheet.
Yes you can try an get all of thoes parts . Lets say you order them and a gear is not avaible . Your left with a load of parts that you can use. This is what I found with the ROCO loco. Your relying on getting a Lots of parts. Its not garanteed you will get them all. Its a risk an expense if it does not work.
Then there is the Cost. To buy a loco in compont form is more expensive than buying a loco.
You might find it cheaper easier and less hassel to buy a Powered NDM and sell you unpowered NDM.
When the model becomes avaible the answer I have given might change with new information avaible.
John

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11 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

I would have expected the powered NDM to be driving both bogies anyway - 4 powered wheels might be ok for a DMU but not a 14 car APT (or even 7 each with 2 NDMs)

 

 

Hi Agree GordonC

 

I would have thought with 4 Powered Wheels would be OK for the most part, but for Helix and inclines etc, going for Dual Powered is a must, i think.

 

Although Hornby seem to thing One Power cars is sufficiently adequate to put 14-Car Sets with One Dummy and One Powered (ND-M)., I think I will play safe and go for Dual Powered extra Powered Car, then if I decide to run a lesser formation like 2+2+6, I can stick the Dummy Car in which I will have a spare or certainly spares for the future.

 

Regards

Jamie

Edited by 7APT7
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Some info on the APT in the latest ‘Engine Shed’ saying they will do an edition on it, “once testing and evaluation of the model’s running characteristics are completed and we will cover the development, operation and extension possibilities in far greater detail

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/british-railways-standard-2mt-2-6-0-update-on-new-liveries

 

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On 26/02/2020 at 22:26, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi Agree GordonC

 

I would have thought with 4 Powered Wheels would be OK for the most part, but for Helix and inclines etc, going for Dual Powered is a must, i think.

 

Although Hornby seem to thing One Power cars is sufficiently adequate to put 14-Car Sets with One Dummy and One Powered (ND-M)., I think I will play safe and go for Dual Powered extra Powered Car, then if I decide to run a lesser formation like 2+2+6, I can stick the Dummy Car in which I will have a spare or certainly spares for the future.

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Hi all,

 

If my experience running a 12-car TGV Atlantique produced by Jouef 20-odd years ago is anything to go by, four powered axles should be more than capable of shifting the weight of a (mostly) articulated set. As long as Hornby fits the NDM with an appropriate motor and the non-powered vehicles with wheels that turn relatively freely, those who don't wish to purchase a second powered NDM for the extra boost will no doubt get on just fine.

 

Remember these are articulated sets so, as per the real world, the powered vehicle will have much, much less resistance to overcome than it would with conventional wheel arrangements. On a full 14-car APT set you have:

 

2xNDM with 8 wheels each = 16 wheels

2xTBF and 2xDTS with 6 wheels each = 24 wheels

8x intermediate trailers with 4 wheels each = 32 wheels

 

That's a total of only 72 wheels in contact with the rails rather than the 112 you would have in a conventional loco + 13 coach train formation.

Whereas a locomotive would have to contend with 104 unpowered wheels on its train, a single NDM will only have to shift 64 of them, which is quite a bit less work (assuming Hornby don't make the trailers out of lead).

 

Alan

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10 minutes ago, jivebunny said:

 

Hi all,

 

If my experience running a 12-car TGV Atlantique produced by Jouef 20-odd years ago is anything to go by, four powered axles should be more than capable of shifting the weight of a (mostly) articulated set. As long as Hornby fits the NDM with an appropriate motor and the non-powered vehicles with wheels that turn relatively freely, those who don't wish to purchase a second powered NDM for the extra boost will no doubt get on just fine.

 

Remember these are articulated sets so, as per the real world, the powered vehicle will have much, much less resistance to overcome than it would with conventional wheel arrangements. On a full 14-car APT set you have:

 

2xNDM with 8 wheels each = 16 wheels

2xTBF and 2xDTS with 6 wheels each = 24 wheels

8x intermediate trailers with 4 wheels each = 32 wheels

 

That's a total of only 72 wheels in contact with the rails rather than the 112 you would have in a conventional loco + 13 coach train formation.

Whereas a locomotive would have to contend with 104 unpowered wheels on its train, a single NDM will only have to shift 64 of them, which is quite a bit less work (assuming Hornby don't make the trailers out of lead).

 

Alan

Agreed. So it is nice to hear Hornby say “once testing and evaluation of the model’s running characteristics are completed and we will cover the development, operation and extension possibilities in far greater detail” .

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8 hours ago, jivebunny said:

 

Hi all,

 

If my experience running a 12-car TGV Atlantique produced by Jouef 20-odd years ago is anything to go by, four powered axles should be more than capable of shifting the weight of a (mostly) articulated set. As long as Hornby fits the NDM with an appropriate motor and the non-powered vehicles with wheels that turn relatively freely, those who don't wish to purchase a second powered NDM for the extra boost will no doubt get on just fine.

 

Remember these are articulated sets so, as per the real world, the powered vehicle will have much, much less resistance to overcome than it would with conventional wheel arrangements. On a full 14-car APT set you have:

 

2xNDM with 8 wheels each = 16 wheels

2xTBF and 2xDTS with 6 wheels each = 24 wheels

8x intermediate trailers with 4 wheels each = 32 wheels

 

That's a total of only 72 wheels in contact with the rails rather than the 112 you would have in a conventional loco + 13 coach train formation.

Whereas a locomotive would have to contend with 104 unpowered wheels on its train, a single NDM will only have to shift 64 of them, which is quite a bit less work (assuming Hornby don't make the trailers out of lead).

 

Alan

 

Hi Alan

 

Very Informative Information, the wheels part, explain's it perfectly. However the last part did make me laugh, where you said (assuming Hornby don't make the trailers out of lead).... lol

 

Thanks again Alan

Regards

Jamie

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8 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Agreed. So it is nice to hear Hornby say once testing and evaluation of the model’s running characteristics are completed and we will cover the development, operation and extension possibilities in far greater detail” .

 

Hi Pete the Elaner

 

Yeah... Lets hope they don't back track (no Pun Intended) on the information they have currently put out, once the results are in on the tests hey... lol

 

Regards

Jamie

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I think 1 powered NDM is likely to be fine. One of Hornby's latest releases - class 87 can haul a fair train. The video below (skip to about 2min 30sec) shows an 87 pulling 16 wagons (128 wheels) easily - at the start of the scene the loco is on the level but the wagons are being pulled up a 1 in 50 gradient, 900mm radius curves. It also does this easily at speed without an noticeable slowing. My only concern would be the actual top speed of the loco which seems slow compared to other locos on my layout. i'm sure that can be sorted.

 

As for the original APT from Christmas 1980 :blush:

 

 

 

729020952_ModelRailway001.jpg.3d9311257941751438d4810c136f113b.jpg

 

 

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On 26/02/2020 at 11:29, rembrow said:

When I queried with Hornby about the motorisation of the NDMs in the 7 car set, Paul Isles, a senior Hornby developer responded that one NDM would be motorised and it would have a central 5 pole motor with shaft drive to both bogies. He advised that the second NDM in the 7 car set would be unmotorized. Hope this helps.

A centrail can motor with 2 bogies drive is easy even with a tilting body. I've fitted Heljan class 33 bogies to mine and the motor is fixed to the body. Even when tilting it runs very smoothly.

IMG_8657.JPG

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2 hours ago, Marcyg said:

A centrail can motor with 2 bogies drive is easy even with a tilting body. I've fitted Heljan class 33 bogies to mine and the motor is fixed to the body. Even when tilting it runs very smoothly.

I've got a NDM that looks exactly the same as yours. It was intended to replace a duel motored NDM in a cut & shut 2+2+5 I currently have.

Unfortunately it got put on the back burner when the other APT was announced & failed

Now that this APT is ordered the incentive has gone again

Should get away from the keyboard & do something constructive with it.

John 

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6 hours ago, Tim4604 said:

Hi All

Would anyone know if 370001 or 370002 ever lead a full 14 car set?

 

No not as far as I have seen. Full 14-car formations were actually quite rare, only being used for 12 months or so from about Aug 1980. 370005 and 370006 were the most commonly used then, as they had been fitted with the latest tilt package first.

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2 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

370005 and 370006 were the most commonly used then, as they had been fitted with the latest tilt package first.

 

Hi stovepipe

 

Yes, and it's 370 005 & 370 006 or 370 007 (Built as a Spare) is the running numbers I want most, more than any of the numbers they have released, for the very reason you have stated...  the most commonly used. 

 

I do hope Hornby release a New Second APT-P Set in 2021 or even announce it before hand, my order would be in ASAP... along with the 48#05 & 48#06 Twin Packs, that would be excellent and then Every Number Released, I just hope they have that in the Pipeline, I guess they will need to see how good or quick the APT-P fly's of the shelves, before they make that decision on a second batch of new running numbers and they could re-use the New Tooling for Second Run of New Running Numbers... Let's hope so, anyway....!

 

Then we can buy any variants that was built in real life, well, that is if Hornby could release N-DM 49005, 49006 as well and the Spare TBF 48607 (Built as a Spare), then every number would be released, Finger's Crossed hey...

 

My first modification, is to re-number my APT-P Set to 370 006 & 370 007 Black Fronted Ends.

Its the sole reason I have ordered two sets of the same set... and I just hope, either eBay or shop will sell the sets off individually, so I can buy a Black Fronted to re-number that one to 370 005.... Unless Hornby Release it in the Pipeline, then I may wait...

 

Regards

Jamie

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On 25/02/2020 at 23:29, Pete the Elaner said:

Hornby Diesel & Electric models have used a central motor driving all wheels for quite a few years now. (Even the class 31, which I find quite ironic). I see no reason for them to move away from this for the APT.

2bil/Hal, Brighton Belle, 395 all use a motor bogie.

As does the railroad modern image.

 

to be fair, its not the drive, but the pickups / quality of wheels/contacts as well as weight that makes a lot of difference in performance.. Ive some great running motor bogie’d models, but drive shafts, flywheels etc are better, especially when surrounded by a solid metal block.

 

But my guess the APT will have a solid metal block in the centre power car, with motor and shafts in there... its relative price is quite attractive, I dont know if that means theres economies in that however... i found the Azuma a bit “railroad” for its price.

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19 hours ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi stovepipe

 

Yes, and it's 370 005 & 370 006 or 370 007 (Built as a Spare) is the running numbers I want most, more than any of the numbers they have released, for the very reason you have stated...  the most commonly used. 

 

I do hope Hornby release a New Second APT-P Set in 2021 or even announce it before hand, my order would be in ASAP... along with the 48#05 & 48#06 Twin Packs, that would be excellent and then Every Number Released, I just hope they have that in the Pipeline, I guess they will need to see how good or quick the APT-P fly's of the shelves, before they make that decision on a second batch of new running numbers and they could re-use the New Tooling for Second Run of New Running Numbers... Let's hope so, anyway....!

 

Then we can buy any variants that was built in real life, well, that is if Hornby could release N-DM 49005, 49006 as well and the Spare TBF 48607 (Built as a Spare), then every number would be released, Finger's Crossed hey...

 

My first modification, is to re-number my APT-P Set to 370 006 & 370 007 Black Fronted Ends.

Its the sole reason I have ordered two sets of the same set... and I just hope, either eBay or shop will sell the sets off individually, so I can buy a Black Fronted to re-number that one to 370 005.... Unless Hornby Release it in the Pipeline, then I may wait...

 

Regards

Jamie

 

I wouldn't expect there to be too many production runs of the APT, I can see these two versions being produced now and that being it

 

..... unless they wildly underestimate demand.

 

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Can't image why it wouldn't have possible to have allowed those pre-ordering to have ordered sets with specific coloured fronts and whichever numbering scheme they wished.  There is only 7 sets of numbers that can be chosen and 2 different fronts.  Seems like a doddle compared to Hatton's class 66 liveries and numbers! 

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