Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[RedgateModels]

This just popped up on a saved search

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363060481544?ul_noapp=true

 

not for me, but nice prezzy for someone with a passion for APT- Mr Tilt perhaps?

[guarded]

A large collection of APT memorabilia was sold a couple of weeks ago,including a few ties.Id imagine this is one of those.

[craigy]

On 29/07/2020 at 10:11, RedgateModels said:

This just popped up on a saved search

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363060481544?ul_noapp=true

 

not for me, but nice prezzy for someone with a passion for APT- Mr Tilt perhaps?

Way over priced, we sell them at our shop for £5, the Crewe Heritage Centre shop that is lol

[delticfan]

Terylene polyester, they don’t make them like that anymore!

[Phil Parker]

On 29/07/2020 at 10:11, RedgateModels said:

This just popped up on a saved search

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363060481544?ul_noapp=true

 

not for me, but nice prezzy for someone with a passion for APT- Mr Tilt perhaps?

 

I bought mine years ago from Collectors Corner at Euston. They had mountains of the things. Still never worn it though as it's RARE!

[RyanN91]

Hi I'm new to joining the fourm I feel really silly now having last year I bought a new Hornby APT set with all paperwork. 

 

Knowing full well Hornby saying their centenary 2020 year would be very special I did think it was about 75% chance a newely tooled APT-P would be produced. 

 

 I bought both and all the SKUs for the 370 001 370 002 sets so I have one full train rake.

 

I think well see these two BR Class 370 APT-Ps this year or next and that being it (for now).

 

Possibly in ten eleven years later in 2030/31 the toolings will be used again for a special 50th Anniversary limited edition in 1981 style  packaging with a certificate or something.

[MGR Hooper!]

September edition of TES has some information on the APT-P:

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/developing-Hornby-far-wide

Edited September 26, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[Cor-onGRT4]

this explains a lot

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDN7PPW4AE8

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

this explains a lot

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDN7PPW4AE8

Of course if you listen to Kit’s story you get a ‘slightly different slant’ to it when you realise it all came about from a trainload of heavily hungover  journos from the BR free bar the night before! 
http://www.apt-p.com/KitSpackmanAPTFADS.htm

 

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

September edition of TES has some information on the APT-P:

Let’s hope now they have a running sample they can answer the power car question as they sell the coaches for the full set but there’s not a matching twin powered option on the 7 car set  

[piranha240]

Has anyone noticed that the cab side windows are missing the window frame?, also on the real thing the cab side window glass looks to curve in 2 directions, where Hornby has done the glass flat.

[YesTor]

52 minutes ago, piranha240 said:

Has anyone noticed that the cab side windows are missing the window frame?, also on the real thing the cab side window glass looks to curve in 2 directions, where Hornby has done the glass flat.

 

Agreed, there is definitely a subtle, two-directional curve on the real thing.  This was something I remember mentioning to DJM when the CADs emerged for his version, and after exchanging a few photos there are most definitely some subtle curvatures in the glass when viewed from certain angles.  That said, looking at these latest Hornby shots and it is clear that the cabside window does indeed flow over the curvature between front end and cabside, so maybe there's a chance it's just too subtle to see the curvature in the glazing itself?

 

I realize that this is an early EP, however one thing I am struggling to even see past is that unsightly waist-level joint running the entire length of the train.  I really would have hoped that Hornby would have found a way to replicate that aircraft-like body as a single piece - minus any joints, moulding lines etc.  To my eye this really spoils the overall streamlined, aero-dynamic appearance in general - which after all is perhaps the main feature/attraction of the train.  If that joint really does have to be present then let's hope that it can be tightened up so as not to be so incredibly obvious/unsightly on the final model...

 

Al

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by YesTor

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, YesTor said:

however one thing I am struggling to even see past is that unsightly waist-level joint running the entire length of the train

There’s no way to avoid it with that tumblehome in plastic moulding unless you move the join above the windows or to the roof and they do say the tolerances need tightening up.

” this does mean closer fitting parts (see corridor end image – NDM car) and an increased tightening of the tolerances”

I assume it mostly follows the edge of the lining which should make it disappear once the tolerances are sorted. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by PaulRhB

[adb968008]

28 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

There’s no way to avoid it with that tumblehome in plastic moulding unless you move the join above the windows or to the roof 

Why ?

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Why ?

 

If the body is a tube, how do you get the glazing and interior inside? This is the problem with the APT shape, there are no natural break lines. I guess that Hornby will rely on the livery to distract the eye, but suspect there is some tightening up to do too as the nose isn't a great fit.

[PaulRhB]

Yes if you moulded it as an extrusion the only openings would be the bogie openings to fix in the interior and the floor to fix the bogies to. That’s further complicated because you’d need an angle on the insert or it would jam inside so the wall would be thicker at the closed end. That’s why if you look at any tall plastic moulding it always has a taper to it for extracting it from the mould. You also need to take into account that a thicker wall then cools at a different rate so you’d be likely to get warping and sink marks like you do on cheapo mouldings. Basically any structural internal ribs should be thinner than the wall they support or you will see a cooling sink mark on the outside. 
While it’s theoretically possible the extra slides to do a long parallel mould are very expensive and more prone to mechanical problems so it slows down production and massively increases costs. To do that for all the APT coaches would probably at least triple the price, if not more, making it unviable for large production and pushing costs up even more. My experience of injection moulding is 25yrs old but it hasn’t changed that much in how you mould things and the cheaper moulds for limited runs wouldn’t work with multiple slides as you need to account for the movement as the mould heats up. 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

If the body is a tube, how do you get the glazing and interior inside? This is the problem with the APT shape, there are no natural break lines. I guess that Hornby will rely on the livery to distract the eye, but suspect there is some tightening up to do too as the nose isn't a great fit.

I don’t have other coaches with mould lines down the side, none of them are tubes either. Some use the roof line.

 

But as you say, the stripes could hide it, and I’ve seen how tight the H class boiler fits together.. you’d not know it wasn’t an “average” body but a boiler/firebox of many parts... it’s quite impressive... Bachmanns 3MT is a Number of  “tight” Fitted parts too, you’d not easily notice.

Edited September 25, 2020 by adb968008

[RyanN91]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

If the body is a tube, how do you get the glazing and interior inside? This is the problem with the APT shape, there are no natural break lines. I guess that Hornby will rely on the livery to distract the eye, but suspect there is some tightening up to do too as the nose isn't a great fit.

Thanks for this that's a pitty and yes let's hope so!  and here was me concerned that at least they've managed to get this right despite non surviving thank goodness for the original archives etc in particular from British rail etc photographs and full scale models to go from like the one at Crewe Heritage Center the full scale model that is actually inside the preserved APT-P.

[RyanN91]

10 minutes ago, RyanN91 said:

Thanks for this that's a pitty and yes let's hope so!  and here was me concerned that at least they've managed to get this right despite non surviving thank goodness for the original archives etc in particular from British rail etc photographs and full scale models to go from like the one at Crewe Heritage Center the full scale model that is actually inside the preserved APT-P.

On and off topic Oh yes and from a few pages earlier. This has probably been mentioned previously apologies if it has already. But incase anyone missed it. The Great Railway Calvalcade: Rocket 150 at Rainhill. the BBC 1980 TV documentary  this been available on the BBC Iplayer for about three years now.

 

This among many of their other fantastic British Railway Television documentaries from the BBC  archives from the 1960s-1980s as part of the BBC Four Collections Steam Railways.

 

Here is the link for the all the documentaries currently available on the BBC Iplayer.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/group/p01277qd

 

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I don’t have other coaches with mould lines down the side, none of them are tubes either. Some use the roof line.

But they will have the split at the roof as the gutter can hide it  Splitting the APT mould there would be more obvious, splitting it lower means they can line it up with the lining  

[VXDH92]

Promising start. Hope the coaches aren't as bowed as they obviously are on the EP. I have some Virgin mk2es and the quality control is poor on them - all bowed (higher in the middles, lower at the ends).

[VXDH92]

Promising start. Hope the coaches aren't as bowed as they obviously are on the EP. I have some Virgin mk2es and the quality control is poor on them - all bowed (higher in the middles, lower at the ends).

[rubber duck]

Speaking to Hattons yesterday it appears nearly all of their allocation of trailer cars have already sold out on pre-order ,  so get your orders in if you want to extend your rake....

[cs233]

Early days but personally I am disappointed by the join line and it really ditracts from the prototype and it's long and clean lines. Shame it could not have been tooled without it and a two part flexible interior used to workaround the challenges. Perhaps when the livery is applied it will hide it. Let's see.....

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, cs233 said:

Shame it could not have been tooled without it and a two part flexible interior used to workaround the challenges.

What do you mean by a two part flexible interior? 
I can’t see how you tool a plastic body without the join somewhere for this shape to be honest, the lining is the obvious place to hide it, the real thing doesn’t have it because it’s welded and ground smooth but you can’t really do that in mass produced plastic. The nature of injection moulding means you need release angles or they don’t come out of the mould. 3D printing offers an answer but it’s not there in finish or clear glazing yet. 
As they said when they released the pictures it’s a first test and they know the tolerances and fit need work. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by PaulRhB

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, cs233 said:

Early days but personally I am disappointed by the join line and it really detracts from the prototype and it's long and clean lines. Shame it could not have been tooled without it and a two part flexible interior used to workaround the challenges. Perhaps when the livery is applied it will hide it. Let's see.....

Why not wait until you see the second EP samples that are painted before you judge the model?