Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[Bucoops]

Dribble

 

No idea how I'm going to justify buying one. Does rule 1 stretch to an APT on 1939 Great Eastern?

[Markwj]

Just now, Bucoops said:

Dribble

 

No idea how I'm going to justify buying one. Does rule 1 stretch to an APT on 1939 Great Eastern?

Yes!

[zoomer1979]

Going to use my old one as a nose up, being towed version. I'm guessing the new one won't do that. Also hope there is plenty of room for DCC sound. Bif said the 87 was a backwards step in that regard.

[Markwj]

Just wondering how it will work DCC wise -will Hornby go for 3 chips or will it work off 1. I suspect Hornby may not be sure themselves yet though.

[Legend]

8 hours ago, drt7uk said:

Do you reckon they might make it compatible with the old sets, coupling wise?

 

I think this might be a bit out of my price range (not a complaint, just have a few other pre orders on the way) but would be tempted to get a 2 pack to make my 5 car current set into a 7 car set. 

 

TBH the original couplings pretty clumsy so fair enough if they don't...

 

No .   That way people would just buy intermediate coaches to extend existing sets . Hornby want you to buy the whole train, because that's how they make money .

 

I bought an APT off of eBay when Dave announced his , because it whetted my appetite but I was never really convinced by the way it was introduced that the DJ one was properly though through. My old Hornby one runs well and is OK but it is from technology that's now 40 years old.   I'm interested to see how Hornby will deal with the articulation , couplings and tilt . Id like to see more details on the formations proposed  ie what is in the 7 car set in particular (I think the 5 is really got to be the same as the 80s model).  I think I'll buy one . No space for the full 14 coacher , but I can accommodate more than 5 coaches , just need to see what suits best, and whether they've got black windscreens .

Edited January 7, 2020 by Legend

[Hilux5972]

10 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Just wondering how it will work DCC wise -will Hornby go for 3 chips or will it work off 1. I suspect Hornby may not be sure themselves yet though.

Depends whether it will have full lighting through out. I’d imagine it would be the same as the HST’s. Coaches with individual lighting like the redone Brighton Belle. 

[MGR Hooper!]

Sorry if I've missed this, but can anyone tell me what vehicles come in the 5-car pack? Product code is R3873.

[Hroth]

16 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

So have Hornby said if the model will tilt or not?

 

 

As mentioned above, yes. 

 

But, will there be an option, possibly under DCC, to lock the tilt to one side or the other for prototypical authenticity?

 

'tis a pity I can't afford one....

 

[GordonC]

19 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Sorry if I've missed this, but can anyone tell me what vehicles come in the 5-car pack? Product code is R3873.

 

The only possible combination would be Driving Trailer, Trailer Brake First, Power Car, Trailer Brake First and Driver Trailer - exactly the same as in the 1980s version.

 

The reason being the bogie configuration with the Power Car having its own bogies and TBF's converting between separate bogie at one end and shared bogie at the other with the next coach. Any additional coaches are likely to be inserted between TBF and Driving Trailer (with the exception of another Power Car or the APT-U Test Coach)

[60800]

Morning all, I've asked Paul Isles about the formations and liveries for the APT sets, this being his direct quoted answer;

 

''The 7-car APT (which is based on an actual 7-car formation featuring the APT-U development car) will feature the black window surround, while the 5-car will feature the plain yellow front. The catalogue, on p.61, features full details, along with additional vehicle numbers and how they will complete sets.''

 

I'm happy to post his response to me due to him stating only what will evidently be in the catalogue when people get their hands on it

 

Cheers,

  60800 

[GordonC]

28 minutes ago, 60800 said:

Morning all, I've asked Paul Isles about the formations and liveries for the APT sets, this being his direct quoted answer;

 

''The 7-car APT (which is based on an actual 7-car formation featuring the APT-U development car) will feature the black window surround, while the 5-car will feature the plain yellow front. The catalogue, on p.61, features full details, along with additional vehicle numbers and how they will complete sets.''

 

I'm happy to post his response to me due to him stating only what will evidently be in the catalogue when people get their hands on it

 

Cheers,

  60800 

 

So if thats one of the extra coaches over the 5 car, whats the other? from the price difference I would expect it would have to include 2 power cars

[Hilux5972]

6 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

So if thats one of the extra coaches over the 5 car, whats the other? from the price difference I would expect it would have to include 2 power cars

Wait for the catalogue 

[60800]

10 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

So if thats one of the extra coaches over the 5 car, whats the other? from the price difference I would expect it would have to include 2 power cars

One would expect it to be a 3+1+Power+2 formation. Evidently there is photographical information of the set somethere, if someone can track it down. I'm going to have a look through the old DJM thread as there was a big discussion about formations with plenty of photographic evidence. 

 

As stated, the exact formations will be in the catalogue, but at least we know the broad spectrum of what they will be.

 

Cheers,

  60800

[stovepipe]

It seems somewhat bizarre to refer people to a catalogue, when they have a perfectly good website to give the details on. Sounds like there have been, or even still are, late decisions being made. I'm not sure why you would to force customers who want a black front service version to also purchase an RTC vehicle?

[60800]

Found it;

 

2+1+Power+Dummy+2 if the photo is anything to go by.

 

Edit: Another photo of the set at Wigan;

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/iuPQAdRaXrRKcCeb9

 

I've gone ahead and ordered the 7 car plus a TRBS set, so I can swap out the APT-U and dummy power car to run something more representative of the survivor. Might look at shifting the dummy on or turning it into the spare at Crewe, but I've always wanted what was effectively the prototype Mk.4 coach 

 

Cheers,

  60800

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by 60800

[Gibbo675]

3 hours ago, Markwj said:

 Regarding DJM I kind of keep hearing the voice of darth Vader in my head saying 'now his failure is complete'. The apt is now being produced without the use of his cads and most of his other models have been duplicated so in theory all his work is worthless. Sorry maybe just me being bitter!

Anyway back to the Hornby apt, due December so I wonder where they are with it hopefully something will appear in the engine shed soon!

Be mindful of your thoughts young modeller !

 

 

 

Gibbo.

[JSpencer]

17 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

It seems somewhat bizarre to refer people to a catalogue, when they have a perfectly good website to give the details on. Sounds like there have been, or even still are, late decisions being made. I'm not sure why you would to force customers who want a black front service version to also purchase an RTC vehicle?

 

Not sure if their website is perfectly good. The 2020 range cannot be easily filtered through and could not be jumbled up more even you if tried.

[stovepipe]

Well yes, and their catalogue is often error-strewn too, but I meant the listing for the 7-car gives a lot of detail, everything apart from what is actually included!

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-class-370-advanced-passenger-train-set-370-001-and-370-002-7-car-pack-era-7.html

 

Hornby could be great company if they were properly customer focussed. The big announcement to create excitement, followed by confusion and frustration. I would have placed an order by now if things were clear from the start, which should surely be their focus.

[muddy water]

When will the old 1980s model lose their high prices on eBay , so I can complete a cut and shut project?

[60800]

The set details are also confirmed by the descriptions on the Hornby website - the 5 car set has the full list of it's stock and the 7 car set mentions the development car, but not if it's a 2+1+Power+Dummy+2 or a 2+1+Power+3. Photos on the net seem to suggest the former.

 

Cheers,

  60800

[JDW]

43 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

It seems somewhat bizarre to refer people to a catalogue, when they have a perfectly good website to give the details on. Sounds like there have been, or even still are, late decisions being made. I'm not sure why you would to force customers who want a black front service version to also purchase an RTC vehicle?

 

It is what it is, no matter what formation they settle on, someone will say "why didn't they do this" or "they should do that". The DJ option had way too many choices and options for every possible permutation, and just ended up a confused muddle. 

It wouldn't surprise me if its a way to make sure they sell enough of the individual trailer and second power car to cover the costs of making them. 

[stovepipe]

10 minutes ago, JDW said:

 

It is what it is, no matter what formation they settle on, someone will say "why didn't they do this" or "they should do that". The DJ option had way too many choices and options for every possible permutation, and just ended up a confused muddle. 

It wouldn't surprise me if its a way to make sure they sell enough of the individual trailer and second power car to cover the costs of making them. 

 

Yes I accept that a sensible compromise must be made and options limited. It is a potential minefield, which is why Hornby need to be clear.

 

19 minutes ago, 60800 said:

The set details are also confirmed by the descriptions on the Hornby website - the 5 car set has the full list of it's stock and the 7 car set mentions the development car, but not if it's a 2+1+Power+Dummy+2 or a 2+1+Power+3. Photos on the net seem to suggest the former.

 

Cheers,

  60800

 

The 5-car set was not in doubt - it can only be formed one way. However the website does not say that it is the yellow front version, which has only come to light today, via someone sending a PM to Paul Isles. Similarly the 7-car set has just been confirmed as the black front version, yet we still don't know for sure what is included.

 

I mean it's not like it's their flagship 2020 release or anything...

[Georgeconna]

On 07/01/2020 at 13:10, muddy water said:

When will the old 1980s model lose their high prices on eBay , so I can complete a cut and shut project?

 

€50 notes plus post will get you my unboxed set with no Pantograph!!

 

Sold - winging its way to Kent!

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Georgeconna

[BritishRail60062]

I think I will be getting this new APT model and the prices are about right as I would assume that this new APT will match that of the Class 800 or exceed it in terms of detail? In the past, I did try to get the 1980's pack in very good condition but they either had a missing pantograph or they were fetching silly money at the time. That made me lose interest in the APT until now and I am very pleased and grateful to learn that a new model is on the way to us in the future and I will not be missing this. I remember seeing a longer modified version at the Bullwell exhibition in 1996 when I was only a teenager at the Carstairs/Law Junction layout and from what I found out that the extra carriages were made from converting the "halves" from the driving and non driving ends which were bonded together back to back and modified to replicate the first and standard class trailers. Not sure if they did the buffet car or not as it was about 23 years ago, I am happy that a new APT with the extra coaches are coming as now this has reignited my interest in this unique train :).

 

Good Times Ahead .

[JDW]

2 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

 

€50 notes plus post will get you my unboxed set with no Pantograph!!

 

 

...but what you don't say is how many €50 notes...! Probably at least ten of them! 

 

Its a project I've looked at doing before too, but like my Mk4 set, I'd have nowhere to run it and would just sit in a box. I suspect that even if the value of the old ones comes down, it will still stay pretty high, as they are "collectors items", even the damaged ones!!