Wolf27 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Still closer to topic than half the threads that wander off. At least we are trying to fix one of the apparent APT deficiencies. Don't seem to get much inward movement on the lower part of my TRBS. I obviously need to be braver! Roy Trying to fix a problem when we don’t have all the parts to see how it functions as a complete set. Im happy to wait for the rest and let everyone else about with theirs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Wolf27 said: Trying to fix a problem when we don’t have all the parts to see how it functions as a complete set. Im happy to wait for the rest and let everyone else about with theirs. Sorry, what has not having the full set got to do with a great big capacitor showing through the window? Also, given there are no interconnections between coaches, any flicker apparent now, will remain. Roy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Don't seem to get much inward movement on the lower part of my TRBS. I obviously need to be braver! He’s asking how the other chap got in as I type, I’m in the midst of paint and plaster on a board so not risking getting it splashed on the coaches 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Sorry, what has not having the full set got to do with a great big capacitor showing through the window? Also, given there are no interconnections between coaches, any flicker apparent now, will remain. Roy I don’t know, that’s why I’m not doing anything about it until I get the rest of the set. And hasn’t it been determined the component is to stop light flicker, not to act as a stay alive? Until I can run my set in anger I’m not going to make any judgements on how parts may perform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Wolf27 said: And hasn’t it been determined the component is to stop light flicker, not to act as a stay alive? To an extent they are they same thing, you stop flicker by maintaining power to them (stay alive). As I run DCC I am not worried about lights staying on for a few seconds / at stations, what I do want is that they are not flickering on and off enroute. If, as some have reported, the lights go out immediately on loss of power, that will be an issue. Anyhow, each to their own, some of us are choosing to look into it now, for the benefit of others. May we continue our electronics discussion now? Roy Edited October 21, 2021 by Roy Langridge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wolf27 said: I remember when this topic was about the APT. Now it’s become an electronics thread. Could be worse, could be about bad cyclists...... Edited October 21, 2021 by newbryford Typo 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said: Don't believe everything on Wikipedia, in fact don't believe most of it. As @lyneuxposted above, there is a circuit using bog standard electrolytic capacitors giving 5 seconds of bright lighting and 30 seconds of some light. A capcitor will discharge quickly if allowed to, but if the delivered current is constrained, it will provide that charge over a period. Roy I have 1000uf caps fitted as stay alives in several diesels with sound and they last for fractions of seconds only, not even long enough to time TBH, but it’s enough to stop the occasional “sound reset” that used to happen occasionally on some points. Other stay alives I have fitted are of the super cap type and those will run the loco for tens of seconds if lifted off the track, totally OTT really but they at least can be restricted to just a second or so if required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said: May we continue our electronics discussion now? Roy If you must, if you think it will help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I am not a regular DCC user, but a point comes to mind with say a 12 or 14 coach set. On powering up the system would the DCC unit see the power inrush to charge up so many capacitors as a potential short circuit? If the lighting boards were fitted with larger capacity capacitors would this not exacerbate the situation? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylegordon Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Well, Hermes appear to have lost both my DCC chip and APT carriages, last 'updated' by Hermes on their tracker on 16th and 19th respectively. And Hornby aren't replying to emails. This isn't terribly encouraging.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, GWR-fan said: I am not a regular DCC user, but a point comes to mind with say a 12 or 14 coach set. On powering up the system would the DCC unit see the power inrush to charge up so many capacitors as a potential short circuit? If the lighting boards were fitted with larger capacity capacitors would this not exacerbate the situation? You have resistor fitted (R in my formula earlier) on the charge side of the circuit to limit the charge current of the capacitor. In theory, they should be set so as to not overburden whatever is providing the supply. The higher the resistance the lower the charging current but the longer the charge time. Roy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) …..or bad spellers @Erixtar1992 has put some pics and a video up on Twitter of the APT coaches stripped down and the capacitor, I’ve not got one on order but I’ve got to say I’m disappointed by the look of the white pantograph on it from the pic I’ve seen, was the real thing white? Edited October 21, 2021 by big jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 17/10/2021 at 13:07, VXDH92 said: Don't recall seeing visible capacitors on the set running on Pete W's layout. I must admit, I wasn't looking for them specifically, but maybe there was an alteration made between that preproduction example and the mass production examples... When I filmed the APT-P at Chester Cathedral, the second coaches lights flashed, and went out as it came past, then flashed on and off, and this can be seen in my video on YouTube… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted October 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2021 8 hours ago, big jim said: …..or bad spellers @Erixtar1992 has put some pics and a video up on Twitter of the APT coaches stripped down and the capacitor, I’ve not got one on order but I’ve got to say I’m disappointed by the look of the white pantograph on it from the pic I’ve seen, was the real thing white? That pantograph looks like unpainted raw plastic! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 17 hours ago, AY Mod said: Another consideration: the IRM capacitors only function on DCC. No one's got an APT driving vehicle yet to see if they perform better on DCC. In the case of the IRM isn't that due to it being wired into the ESU decoder as a stay alive? In the LS5 manual: "The PowerPack only operates in digital mode. It automatically turns off on analogue layouts." Unless I am misunderstanding what you're getting at! 15 hours ago, boxbrownie said: I have 1000uf caps fitted as stay alives in several diesels with sound and they last for fractions of seconds only, not even long enough to time TBH, but it’s enough to stop the occasional “sound reset” that used to happen occasionally on some points. That's what I was thinking, I think all the videos I have seen of these in terms of checking the caps endurance have been stationary and the lights go off almost instantaneously, but the flicker caused by dirty track/wheels and insulfrog points is almost instantaneous in most cases too (otherwise it wouldn't be called flicker). Obviously if you're stopping the train over a bad area then it won't cut it, but something bigger maybe wouldn't either! Has anyone pushed these across bad points/whatever to see if they flicker? At the moment from what I have seen the discussion seems to be about if the capacitors are good enough rather than an experiment to see if they actually are. How do they compare to the capacitors in the 800? I don't think they suffer with flickering but I aren't sure if those have 4 axle pickup, which the APT won't have. Thinking about it, this train would have been absolutely ideal for having an interconnecting wire all the way through from each DT given the shared bogies. If each bogie has a 2 pin plug on it to tie the other carriage into it then all the pickups could be working together. It probably wouldn't cost more than a few pence a coach to implement since the wiring and pickups are already there, it is just 2 plugs and a bit of wire. A more expensive option would be a 4 pin plug and it could have a pickup bus and then a function output for the lighting (which could even have been operable on an 8 pin decoder unless Hornby have given more than just forwards/backwards lighting on the ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 10 hours ago, big jim said: look of the white pantograph on it from the pic I’ve seen It doesn't look particularly clever, does it? But I also don't know what colour it was IRL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, TomScrut said: Thinking about it, this train would have been absolutely ideal for having an interconnecting wire all the way through from each DT given the shared bogies. If each bogie has a 2 pin plug on it to tie the other carriage into it then all the pickups could be working together. It probably wouldn't cost more than a few pence a coach to implement since the wiring and pickups are already there, it is just 2 plugs and a bit of wire. A more expensive option would be a 4 pin plug and it could have a pickup bus and then a function output for the lighting (which could even have been operable on an 8 pin decoder unless Hornby have given more than just forwards/backwards lighting on the ends. I intend to through wire my sets for pick ups, I may well add a third wire for coach lighting control. I will have a better idea how easy when I collect my coach packs on Saturday. Andi 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2021 looks to be an aluminium finish so a silver designed for the flexi polycarbonate rc car bodies should stay on. Kato and MDS use self coloured plastic too and it has a similar slight translucence to it but they do resist slight knocks better and don’t seem to go brittle with age which is a major consideration on such a fine moulding. Normal paints will flake off if it gets bent but those for the rc bodyshell market are designed to survive major deformations in impacts. Tamiya PS 36 silver spray or similar. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazwire Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Received mine and I'm really impressed, aside from the capacitor position. They look fantastic - excellent finish, colours and shape and the glazing/windows really excellent. The only other thing is the pantograph which I'm scared to raise. The body work though is truly excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylegordon Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, gazwire said: Received mine and I'm really impressed, aside from the capacitor position. They look fantastic - excellent finish, colours and shape and the glazing/windows really excellent. The only other thing is the pantograph which I'm scared to raise. The body work though is truly excellent. How long did yours take within Hermes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted October 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, kylegordon said: How long did yours take within Hermes? I got notice of a delivery by Hermes this morning…..it just arrived……two packs of Brabantia bin bags* *no light bleed, no flickering bulbs, print application perfect…….. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, boxbrownie said: I got notice of a delivery by Hermes this morning…..it just arrived……two packs of Brabantia bin bags* *no light bleed, no flickering bulbs, print application perfect…….. Yours must be faulty then. If you believe what some people are saying it’s the worst model ever created. However, they are wrong. 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, Wolf27 said: Yours must be faulty then. If you believe what some people are saying it’s the worst model ever created. However, they are wrong. Not seen anybody describe it as that on RMWeb.... Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Not seen anybody describe it as that on RMWeb.... Roy Well it was linked by Jim, Read the header on one of his tweets 15 hours ago, big jim said: …..or bad spellers @Erixtar1992 has put some pics and a video up on Twitter of the APT coaches stripped down and the capacitor, I’ve not got one on order but I’ve got to say I’m disappointed by the look of the white pantograph on it from the pic I’ve seen, was the real thing white? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erixtar1992 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Well it was linked by Jim, Read the header on one of his tweets Except it wasnt, was it? I didnt say it was the worst model created. For the price however, im dissapointed with it. It should be top tier stuff for that money, yet it isnt. 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now