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Ok so me and my partner are currently waiting on the final bits for our next move which we intend to be a good few years

 

I have been given permission to us one of the spare bedrooms to store some of my equipment for other hobbies but also to have a model railway.

 

The room is 8' by 8'9" with a door in the top left hand corner on one of the 8'9" walls. Sadly in do not have the dimensions for the door yet.

 

Ideally I would like to be able to fit in a small/intermediate station on a twin track line with a goods yard and an offscene fiddle yard ideally on a roundy-roundy. I would prefer to be able to shunt the goods yard while still being able to run something on the main line(s).

 

Locations i intend to depict is the ex Midland Lines in West Yorkshire in the Upper Airedale and Wharfedale around the mid 1950s so I would really want to avoid facing points!

 

The maximum length of trains I expect to run would be around 5 MK1 equivalents and around 12/15 wagons.

 

Hope that's enough for you beautiful people to work your magic. 

 

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

Edited by Aire Head
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What gauge will you use? I am guessing N-gauge because you will have great difficulty fitting in a train of engine and five Mk 1s using 00 gauge as it will be about six feet long. If you are using N-gauge then that is a decent size space and you can do what you have described. With 00 I suggest that a single line that doubles as it goes through the station would be more appropriate.

 

Robert

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22 minutes ago, Robert Stokes said:

What gauge will you use? I am guessing N-gauge because you will have great difficulty fitting in a train of engine and five Mk 1s using 00 gauge as it will be about six feet long. If you are using N-gauge then that is a decent size space and you can do what you have described. With 00 I suggest that a single line that doubles as it goes through the station would be more appropriate.

 

Robert

 

It is double 0 I'm afraid.

 

I reckon by going around the edge of the room the space is doable. Particularly as all the station has to be is a couple of platforms with no bays or anything fancy.

 

My main passenger rake is 5 exLMS coaches which comes to about 4 foot long iirc which I could compromise to quite easily

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There are plenty of layouts out there in the round, plus Peco have some books of plans for smaller layouts, you can even develop the L shaped ones into a round.

 

Another method is to build the boards and if using Peco or other sectional track ( including flexi track) systems just see how it develops, quite often what looks good on paper fails to transfer itself to a model, or things like baseboard joins get in the way

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My spare bedroom layout was somewhere near that size and was an end to end one and a quarter turns round the room.  I had several plans for a continuous run looped 8 which never quite worked due to the gradients needed.

 However it was 60" nominal above floor level which made the duck under a nod under and gave great viewing angles when operating standing up or sitting on a high stool and left a fantastic amount of space for other junk.

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Never mind magic, this will need sorcery! Sorry but my gut feeling is that what you're asking for isn't going to be possible because even an ovoid with trainset curves in diagonal corners I don't think there's enough room to fit both a 6ft platform along one side and storage sidings long enough for 5 coach trains opposite it. The FY points fans will eat up the space and be difficult to arrange.

 

I think some compromise will be needed. Reducing the desired train length would be the biggest winner. Or maybe educate your partner on what's important in life and swap over the use of the small room with one of the bigger bedrooms... :wink_mini:

 

Having said all that, this is 7ft6 by 8ft6:

It's single track and doesn't envisage such long trains. The FY is a bit of a compromise that would need some manual handling to set trains up.

 

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40 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Never mind magic, this will need sorcery! Sorry but my gut feeling is that what you're asking for isn't going to be possible because even an ovoid with trainset curves in diagonal corners I don't think there's enough room to fit both a 6ft platform along one side and storage sidings long enough for 5 coach trains opposite it. The FY points fans will eat up the space and be difficult to arrange.

 

I think some compromise will be needed. Reducing the desired train length would be the biggest winner. Or maybe educate your partner on what's important in life and swap over the use of the small room with one of the bigger bedrooms... :wink_mini:

 

Having said all that, this is 7ft6 by 8ft6:

It's single track and doesn't envisage such long trains. The FY is a bit of a compromise that would need some manual handling to set trains up.

 

 

There are risks I'm prepared to take but the bedrooms isn't one!

 

I've already had a play around on xtrkcad so will post that up later to be picked at

 

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Life is always simpler (and space-eating crossovers unnecessary) if the yard is only shunted by trains in one direction ….. but crossovers do increase possibilities for operations in the station area.  However, I tend to agree that a single-track main would open things up more (and simplify the fiddle yard as you won't need crossovers at both ends there).  It's gonna be tight, whatever.

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On 06/01/2020 at 12:12, Aire Head said:

 

The room is 8' by 8'9" with a door in the top left hand corner on one of the 8'9" walls. Sadly I do not have the dimensions for the door yet.

 

I re-mounted my door on the other side of its frame, so it opens out into the hallway instead of into the layout room.

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On 06/01/2020 at 18:54, Aire Head said:

So following a bit of a play around this is partially where I am at.

 

Needs refinement but thoughts are appreciated.

 

Too busy and not enough thought about where trains etc are going while shunting.  The 4 track bit is a bit ott for a branch and I don't see the point of it. A very large number of yards could only be shunted by trains going in one direction. Full wagons would be taken away in the wrong direction and come back through several hours later the other way, life was slower in those days and a lot more stressful. and annoying. 

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1 hour ago, DavidCBroad said:

Too busy and not enough thought about where trains etc are going while shunting.  The 4 track bit is a bit ott for a branch and I don't see the point of it. A very large number of yards could only be shunted by trains going in one direction. Full wagons would be taken away in the wrong direction and come back through several hours later the other way, life was slower in those days and a lot more stressful. and annoying. 

 

The 4 track part in the top right hand corner is the fiddle yard.

 

The 4 track area in the bottom left is the running lines with a run around loop in order to make sure the yard can be shunted without interfering with the mainlines.

 

Goods trains either reverse from the UP line over a single slip and straight into the loop where they can be shunted from there. From the Down lines trains reverse into a headshunt and are then dragged into the loop and likewise can be shunted from there.

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Taking on board the comments in going to play around with the goods yard area.

 

I do want to keep double track running as much as possible however I may have to accept that shunting may block the running lines (which seems to have been accepted on the prototype area I'm looking at anyway looking at the design of most goods yards anyway.

 

It may add a challenge to shunting anyway as I will have to fit it in between other trains using the lines.

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Had a play on xtrackCAD and it's doable - just.  Minimum radius is 3rd, the plan isn't prototypical but should give you a feel as to what could be acheived.  Gives you twin track running, parcel bay, three sidings with a small headshunt, a by direction loop and a six track fiddle yard.

Hope this helps, PM me if you want the file.

 

8 by 8 and a bit.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Aire Head,

 

Look at Google for photos of my 00 Gauge DCC layout 'Crewlisle'.  Size is 8'6 x 7'6.  There is about 12 ins between the edge of the bottom baseboard & wall  to give access to a built in wardrobe & airing cupboard.  Forget about Scarm, Anyrail or any other track designing apps.  These are normally used when using a manufacturer's 'set track'.  Do what I did many years ago when starting my layout, I listed what I wanted from my train spotting days.  That is a 4 platform terminus to take 6 coach expresses, steam shed, diesel shed, turntable, goods yard, connection to a double track roundy-roundy WCML with through station & small goods yard, portable catenary & reversing loop.  If you have a terminus, trains leave so must have to come back!  I used Peco paper point templates where I wanted them & tried flexible track between them to see if it could be done.  If not, I repositioned the templates until I could get a fair curve between them.  Simple but practical.

To me, fiddle yards are wasted space; use cassettes instead.  I use 12 on a rack under the baseboard as part of the reversing loop inside the operating well.  Each is 1370mm long & hold a Class 47 + 4 coaches or 12 short wheelbase wagons.  They are replenished from the stock box as required.  The longest trains I run are 6 coach expresses, Midland Pullman, HST & APT.  Two can be held on the reversing loop or in two separate 1800mm cassettes made from plastic cable conduit.

I am the first to admit that it is not prototypical or the most detailed but was built to entertain.  At exhibitions we run a minimum of 2 & sometimes as many as 4 trains/locos simultaneously.   There are plenty of photos on line & it will be appearing at the NEC in November for its last exhibition as the baseboards seem to get heavier for each exhibition!

Description of the layout appeared in Hornby Magazine HM84 in June 2014 & catenary (all portable & pantographs in contact with overhead wires) in Model Rail 192 in February 2014 or I can send them via PM including details of how to build the cassettes.

 

Peter

 

 

 

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So I had a bit more of a play around and came up with this.

 

I decided to compromise on the platforms by using a footbridge as a scenic break and to create the appearance that the platforms are in fact longer than they would be modelled. This freed up more space to create a goods yard and going off previous feedback I decided to make all of the sidings have the same direction.

 

The circle in the top left hand corner is the location of the door, unfortunately it wouldn't be possible to make it open the other direction, I plan to create a lift out section in front of the door.

 

Please note that the black lines indicating baseboards are not finalised and was largely there for guidance when it came to placing pointwork.

 

Thank you for any thoughts and feedback in advance.

2020-02-09 (2).png

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I would suggest a road bridge, with the main station building at road level, so above the platforms, would make a better scenic break than a footbridge - not so obvious (from some angles at least) that the platforms don't actually continue beyond the bridge.

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4 minutes ago, Chimer said:

I would suggest a road bridge, with the main station building at road level, so above the platforms, would make a better scenic break than a footbridge - not so obvious (from some angles at least) that the platforms don't actually continue beyond the bridge.

 

i have considered this as an option as well. The Closest prototype would be Keighley, admittedly the platforms do no go under the bridge so to speak however, this does sound like a better choice given some consideration and some modellers licence is allowed :imsohappy:,

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Seems to be going backwards from Harlequin's ideas.    The  part platform is a bit of a shame.  I like watching locos start away from stations,   Why not put the platforms in the left bottom as per Harlequin with the  goods loop round the back of the platform wouldn't take much of a fiddle..  There were  examples of this where the back of the platform was fenced off as the back road was just a goods road I'm fairly sure Evesham GWR was like this. Otherwise the platform/ FY interface will be difficult to blend. Personally I would have stuck a couple of coal sidings in front of the FY with a low scenic break so you cant see over when operating sitting down but can still get at the stock.  Alternatively the baseboards could be slimmed down.

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Hi,


You’ve done a great job of fitting a layout into the space but I wonder if there’s a bit too much going on?

 

Do you need the extra loop at bottom left? If you added a second trailing crossover where the loop rejoins you would have a loop in the main lines you could use for running round.


If you imagined the main line was single rather than double you would save some point work and thus allow longer loops and sidings.

 

Perhaps reduce the number of sidings in the goods area from 5 down to 3. That would make the goods yard more spacious with longer sidings and allow the platforms to be longer, extending further around the curve.

 

BTW: Little Muddle is a great example of using a platform footbridge to form a scenic break.

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Put a second trailing crossover in the straight bit by the door and do away with the loop in the goods yard, you can have a long coal siding instead. Running round in small yards was unusual and shunting on the main running lines normal in most places (as was shunting in one direction only but there might still be two crossovers).

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4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi,


You’ve done a great job of fitting a layout into the space but I wonder if there’s a bit too much going on?

 

Do you need the extra loop at bottom left? If you added a second trailing crossover where the loop rejoins you would have a loop in the main lines you could use for running round.


If you imagined the main line was single rather than double you would save some point work and thus allow longer loops and sidings.

 

Perhaps reduce the number of sidings in the goods area from 5 down to 3. That would make the goods yard more spacious with longer sidings and allow the platforms to be longer, extending further around the curve.

 

BTW: Little Muddle is a great example of using a platform footbridge to form a scenic break.

 

I am caught in the quandary between operational fun and prototype fidelity on this one. 

 

Ideally I would like to be able to mess about shunting while still being able to run on main lines :sorry_mini:

 

Regarding the sidings I am thinking of dropping the siding with the cattle dock adjacent and instead using the one which terminates at the platform for a cattle dock instead .

 

I have also considered wether to use the outside of the loop for the goods shed as was often done in the prototype in the area I wish to depict. I've just struggled to fit it due to the curved nature and wanting to avoid making the radius any tighter than it already is.

 

Twin track is an unmovable choice for me which only adds to the challenge!

 

Edit: Ive looked at Little Muddle and the footbridge as a scenic break works perfectly how I would want. Especially if I sandwich it between some low relief mill buildings to add that authentic Yorkshire feel.

 

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Put a second trailing crossover in the straight bit by the door and do away with the loop in the goods yard, you can have a long coal siding instead. Running round in small yards was unusual and shunting on the main running lines normal in most places (as was shunting in one direction only but there might still be two crossovers).

 

I have tried to fit in a second trailing crossover however I have struggled to do so while maintaining a reasonable radius. 

 

I would prefer to avoid pointwork on the straight bit by the door as I am intending to make this a lift of section/bar flap and probably model it scenically as a bridge.

 

It's certainly all food for thought and I will play around with it a bit tonight!

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5 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Seems to be going backwards from Harlequin's ideas.    The  part platform is a bit of a shame.  I like watching locos start away from stations,   Why not put the platforms in the left bottom as per Harlequin with the  goods loop round the back of the platform wouldn't take much of a fiddle..  There were  examples of this where the back of the platform was fenced off as the back road was just a goods road I'm fairly sure Evesham GWR was like this. Otherwise the platform/ FY interface will be difficult to blend. Personally I would have stuck a couple of coal sidings in front of the FY with a low scenic break so you cant see over when operating sitting down but can still get at the stock.  Alternatively the baseboards could be slimmed down.

 

The baseboards are fixed at 2' wide as the layout is going to be built on top of some shelving for storage of other hobby equipment.

 

I'm mainly a goods fan so half hidden platforms I can live with if done right. My concern with doing the platforms as you suggested is that it isn't prototypical for the area I wish to depuct. (The Midland and Great Western having different ideas! Never! :jester:)

 

I'm planning to revisit the goods yard tonight and have a play around I will have a look at using sidings to mask the fiddle yard.

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